Climate change, real or no deal.

[MetalMonkey]

Climate change real? Yes absolutely.
Environmentally friendly products? ehh, not so much.

Unfortunately while many of these products have a basis in some aspect that is more environmentally friendly - the results are often a product that is poorly executed.
i.e. it isn't fit for purpose or is cost engineered to a point where it becomes just as disposable as the thing it was replacing. Essentially just becoming a colossal waste of resources.

The manufacturing or disposal impact is also seldom taken account, and usually happens in other countries so "doesn't count" in the environmental footprint, despite us all living on the same rock.

There are plenty of good ideas, but does lead to a lot of understandable resentment against green/environmental initiatives because of this.

I believe what is needed is less consumerism - products that last and not tons of cheap disposable rubbish which is shipped halfway around the globe, used for two minutes and then chucked in the landfill.
It also requires a change in mentality - people learning to conserve resources and be less wasteful, even when it is jolly inconvenient.

Sadly this is unlikely to happen because it doesn't make money, doesn't generate growth and is all a bit of a hassle. So we are left instead with these token "green incentives" to make us all feel better about our inevitable doom.

Save the planet? The planet doesn't need saving, we do. It will still be here when were are long gone - but "oh ****, oh **** we are all going to die" doesn't have quite the same ring.
Cheery Monday Morning post.

 

[Brad93]

Doesn’t matter how much energy you save with led lightbulbs in your time on earth.

you’ve only got to look at every fast food place, office building, etc with the lights left on when no one is there.

that’s before you get onto power stations, steelworks, car manufacturers, heavy industry.

 

[piman]

Hello all,

renewable generation, my favourite gripe, expensive unreliable, destabilising did I say expensive. Just don't believe the media they print utter rubbish, mostly copy and paste from the renewable companies.

AGW natural or man made? Consider man's emissions of CO2 comprises about 4 to 5% of total global emissions, the rest are natural and now tell me how we can have any significant effect on it by renewables, especially as Asia is flat out and using lots of coal generation. The only good thing about renewables are if you are a wind farm owner and doing very nicely thank you.

Alec

 

[Matchless]

The greenest car I own is my 1929 Dodge 3.2 litre sv six, only been manufactured once, restored once, still running, whole life carbon footprint? I think I win.
and the wheels are wooden! win win try explaining that to our local green party candidate! his brain melted trying to tell me how wrong I was.....

my summer daily driver for the last 16 years but I have not brought it out this year yet, not covid proof.

 

[Morrisman]

Brought to you down a cable thats made near this river

Yes, I lived 'over there' for 20 years, pollution is one thing I really hated about it. They treat the world like their own personal rubbish bin, tip their junk directly into river, sewers, streams, gutters, and expect it to magically disappear. That is what we humans need to focus on, not some fantasy idea of forcing europeans to drop their cars CO2 emissions by 0.01%, at vast expense, to pretend to save the planet.

The scrappage scam, where car manufactures pay a pittance to make people buy a new car, having sneakily paid politicians to ignore the 'cradle to grave' emissions of building and destroying cars, was a perfect example that this global warming issue is all about money.

They would love us all to buy a new 'greener' car every few years, to give us a warm glow that we are doing something to save our planet, oh yes.

 

[Morrisman]

Hello all,

renewable generation, my favourite gripe, expensive unreliable, destabilising did I say expensive. Just don't believe the media they print utter rubbish, mostly copy and paste from the renewable companies.

AGW natural or man made? Consider man's emissions of CO2 comprises about 4 to 5% of total global emissions, the rest are natural and now tell me how we can have any significant effect on it by renewables, especially as Asia is flat out and using lots of coal generation. The only good thing about renewables are if you are a wind farm owner and doing very nicely thank you.

Alec

The UK still imports wood from the USA to burn in power stations, brought over in oil powered ships, they just don't like to talk about it much, having persuaded we rabble that coal was terrible for the environment.

 

[Screwdriver]

AGW natural or man made? Consider man's emissions of CO2 comprises about 4 to 5% of total global emissions, the rest are natural and now tell me how we can have any significant effect on it by renewables, especially as Asia is flat out and using lots of coal generation. The only good thing about renewables are if you are a wind farm owner and doing very nicely thank you.

Alec

The acronym AGW means "man made" (Anthropogenic = caused by humans).

"Natural" forces which indeed cause climate change all on their own do contribute 95% or so BUT the climate has formed in equilibrium with those pre-existing effects. What humankind is doing is adding a tiny little bit on top, the cherry on the cake if you like. The best example for this phenomena is running a bath which is almost but not quite full, then opening a little plug hole.

To keep the bathtub at a given level, you add sufficient flow of water, make tiny adjustments to the flow and after say 3.5 billion years, you get it exactly dead on. Just as much water flows out as is flowing in. The water level stays constant. Then mankind comes along and starts fiddling with the taps, introducing a significant excess. That excess has nowhere to go. The system was previously stable and now the water level (global warming in this case) is gradually going up and the plughole is not getting any bigger...

So while you might think mankind is only making a tiny contribution, that excess is building up because the ecosystem can't adjust that quickly. We have upset the balance. Add into that deforestation and massive livestocks generating methane and it's a one way ticket to, well I was going to say "disaster" but certainly "instability". The climate will react in unpredictable ways wildly swinging around it's long term normals. Hence we should expect to see a lot more extreme weather events. Longer dry spells, more super hurricanes, etc. etc.

You only have to look out of the window to see it...

 

[fizzy]

https://www.electricitymap.org/map

The facts speak for themselves. And this is summer with low demand.
The countries messing about with renewables have very high carbon footprints.
Todays figures

Germany 352g
UK 294g
France 65g

The UK and Germany have spent umpteen billions on renewables - and to what effect?

 

[the snooper]

Regarding the led lamps, I bought some from eBay, they are cheap but don't last as claimed, won't be buying them from eBay again buyer be ware, all that glitters is not gold

 

[Jbo2231]

https://www.electricitymap.org/map

The facts speak for themselves. And this is summer with low demand.
The countries messing about with renewables have very high carbon footprints.
Todays figures

Germany 352g
UK 294g
France 65g

The UK and Germany have spent umpteen billions on renewables - and to what effect?

I dont think this is a fair statement. I think countries with high population produce more carbon is more accurate. Look at Iceland. They are "messing with renewables" but produce very little carbon impact. Granted they have far less people to supply. I think the issue would be with the people deciding where to put the billions. Or rather which buddy they want to give it to.

 

[outofthefire]

wind farms get shut down in high winds so where does your electric come from then ?

same with not enough wind to produce electric

I don't understand why windmills don't have a gearbox so the blades always spin at a constant speed, but the output changes, so they can run constantly assuming there's wind

 

[fizzy]

I dont think this is a fair statement. I think countries with high population produce more carbon is more accurate. Look at Iceland. They are "messing with renewables" but produce very little carbon impact. Granted they have far less people to supply. I think the issue would be with the people deciding where to put the billions. Or rather which buddy they want to give it to.

Germany - France and the UK have very similar populations and demands. Also of a very similar geographic nature.

Iceland has vast amounts of hydro and geothermal power due to it's volcanic nature.
Scandinavian countries have vast amount of hydro.
Sadly our geography means we don't.
I have nothing against hydro or geothermal but we don't have it!

 

[garethp]

I don't understand why windmills don't have a gearbox so the blades always spin at a constant speed, but the output changes, so they can run constantly assuming there's wind

Pretty sure the large ones do have gearboxes as the generator in the back runs a faster than the blades can spin. The blade pitch is altered to control the overall speed and generate more or less power as the wind speed changes.

 

[daleyd]

https://www.electricitymap.org/map

The facts speak for themselves. And this is summer with low demand.
The countries messing about with renewables have very high carbon footprints.
Todays figures

Germany 352g
UK 294g
France 65g

The UK and Germany have spent umpteen billions on renewables - and to what effect?

The figure they use of 12g/KWh for nuclear is very generous, and on the low end of a lot of peoples estimates....most people have it up around 50 g/Kwh at least

 

[gaz1]

I don't understand why windmills don't have a gearbox so the blades always spin at a constant speed, but the output changes, so they can run constantly assuming there's wind

 

[Morrisman]

The UK and Germany have spent umpteen billions on renewables - and to what effect?

Absolutely NO global effect, when you consider the third world is ramping up pollution as fast as they can, whether by design, apathy, or ignorance. Maybe our own cities are cleaner, but winds carry our clean atmosphere far and wide, and bring back everybody else's mess.

We could probably delete the UK from the planet and the general ecosystem of the globe wouldn't notice our absence.

 

[fizzy]

Absolutely NO global effect, when you consider the third world is ramping up pollution as fast as they can, whether by design, apathy, or ignorance. Maybe our own cities are cleaner, but winds carry our clean atmosphere far and wide, and bring back everybody else's mess.

We could probably delete the UK from the planet and the general ecosystem of the globe wouldn't notice our absence.

Oh I agree with that. What I don't agree with is electricity bills going through the roof to pay for a token gesture

 

[Morrisman]

And this is the 'green scene' side effect that we bequeath to our descendants......

https://www.wind-watch.org/news/202...ne-blades-are-pictured-piling-up-in-landfill/

 

[Morrisman]

Oh I agree with that. What I don't agree with is electricity bills going through the roof to pay for a token gesture

Well, a fair percentage of that is profit, for the very people pushing the issue. It is all about the money.

 

[fizzy]

Well, a fair percentage of that is profit, for the very people pushing the issue. It is all about the money.

Profit?
Really?
Most of the electricity companies are losing money hand over fist. In fact electricity is sold at a loss by most suppliers - hoping the gas bill will top it up.
Quite a few new companies started to help consumers avoid being ripped off.

24 energy companies went bust in 2019 alone

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-8191219/How-energy-firms-bust-2020.html

"Many of these suppliers have exited the cut-throat market as they failed to make enough money, relying on razor-thin margins."

Bristol council set up it's own energy firm to "help" consumers - it ended up costing the council tax payers £35 millionI

https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/bristol-council-bristol-energy-sold-18353963

As I have already said - it is all the stupid subsidises that make our electric so expensive - and it's going up all the time.