Really? Do you have any indicative costs for such a (arguably simple, but potentially massive) thing?
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Gareth J
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No, I've never looked that far in detail. There's plenty of examples/experiments etc though. One shown on grand designs springs to mind, "simply" insulated the earth around a home and stored heat in the ground. The earth, as a heat storage medium, was free, though insulating it above wasn't. Commercial/district systems can use bore holes the earth then also does the insulating
Sure, concept is one thing, making it work in reallity needs maths - Mrs Joules - remember her? Then lost heat, which needs calculations on insulation factor etc. If you lose more heat over 3 months, or even 1 month, than you can put in it's a pointless exercise. I've done quite a bit of work on digester CHP systems, and know what it takes to heat a large physical body, and what happens when you stop putting heat in...
Gareth J
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If interested, look up examples. There are plenty, Wikipedia STES for a start. It might seem mad but with "the earth" heat loss can be inconsequential. The earth is both the heat storage medium AND the insulator - it's not a very good one, if you compare it to polystyrene, but when you have 100m of it... Things don't get built for a number of reasons, not simply because the numbers don't stack up. Space, community planning, people not accustomed to relatively long payback times despite relatively low total lifetime cost on things like heating.
No, not interested, my tooth sucking brain tells me the size needed and associated losses would make it a no go, you were the one suggested it as an option to store heat. this thread is for a diy solar grid tied pv setup, and @pressbrake1 's system is on the large end of that, it's not likely to be a viable option?
Gareth J
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Disappointing attitude! I've come to better on this forum over the years.
But fair enough, it's certainly off topic.
Oh come on, you suggested it, not me!
gaz1
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until they come up with a better battery and storage to go with it
lead acid battery is the only one that can be recycled for now
lithium is lighter and stores more cannot be recycled has issues with failure and can start a fire
its profit and banks is why alot of things dont get done, if its not making a quick buck as quick as possible we are not interested
community, planning, houses arnt built to last anymore
lead acid battery is the only one that can be recycled for now
lithium is lighter and stores more cannot be recycled has issues with failure and can start a fire
polystyrene as bad as plastic also as bad as eps foam its all human made waste product, plastic is already poluting the planet dupoint polluted the world for profit
its profit and banks is why alot of things dont get done, if its not making a quick buck as quick as possible we are not interested
community, planning, houses arnt built to last anymore
brewdexta
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There are a growing number of Lithium battery recycling companies. Not as easy as lead acid but it does happen.
Most solar PV fires are caused by faulty installation, bad crimps, arcing etc. There is a government report with case studies and figures.
Good point re the waste floating around. Mostly if not all from oil based products. Where would we be without it I wonder. Sorry fo allowing this to go OT.
gaz1
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@Fintray
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thankyou for posting your solar data it shows a true reference between north, middle and south solar data production of the uk
@J1nx
@brewdexta
thankyou for posting your solar data it shows a true reference between north, middle and south solar data production of the uk
gaz1
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with the sand battery its viable for heating from my reading they top up heat from servers to feed the houses
so that means there using an air system or water is better so they could be using that method for heating
now sand to steam is a more viable option but it has dangers to it ( old steam radiators ) but the steam has more options can be used within a small turbine system to generate electricity steam can also be used to preheat the water before it hits the main boiler
i think brew is in more of a position to test this
so that means there using an air system or water is better so they could be using that method for heating
now sand to steam is a more viable option but it has dangers to it ( old steam radiators ) but the steam has more options can be used within a small turbine system to generate electricity steam can also be used to preheat the water before it hits the main boiler
i think brew is in more of a position to test this
Does it? Just three sites? I would expect the panel and inverter efficiencies, orientation and angle of inclination to have more of an effect... or at least enough of an effect to skew any regional variations. The online web calculator tool would be better for what you’re after.
Yes viable for harvesting waste heat and district heating, but the thread is about home brewed solar PV...
gaz1
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you can heat sand up with solar so perfectly viable you can use solar electricity to supply the heat via emersion heaters or via a piped up system that heats the air up to a very high temp
the system also allows piping off of the saved heat within the battery via water for heating and also steam to produce electricity
also the sand battery has a 50+ year life cycle and is reuseabal
I think it's a grand idea, ideal for a field full of panels linked to a small housing estate. Questionable whether the retention/size/cost would stack up to give all winter long heat though..
I build hydro turbines, usually below reservoirs, these have the same issue - full resrvoir in the autumn, more than enough water in the winter, draw down gradually in spring, by the end of the summer it's gone. So then you have to wait till it replenishes enough..
Andr reservoirs don't lose heat, or water, so long as they don't leak..
gaz1
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reservoirs do lose water they loose it to evaporation and also loose water to the earth as well as it will bleed through very slowly only the head of the reservoir is more sealed
for 2 members thats possible one could be brew the other is next to a river the river one has a better option as they can build a pumping station to pump water up there land ready for the flow again if you wanted to power a small turbine with 5 litres per second brew would have to come with something else to pump the water back up a pump that uses after flow of water after the turbine
for the householder thats impossible however a sand store is not getting past planning is
a sand store can be powered by both the wind and also the sun
for 2 members thats possible one could be brew the other is next to a river the river one has a better option as they can build a pumping station to pump water up there land ready for the flow again if you wanted to power a small turbine with 5 litres per second brew would have to come with something else to pump the water back up a pump that uses after flow of water after the turbine
for the householder thats impossible however a sand store is not getting past planning is
a sand store can be powered by both the wind and also the sun
DAPPH
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2004 My mate Paul lived in Glinton Peterborough , their 6 foor dia x 4 foot deep insulated above ground pool was only heated with copper rod heat transfer & a small solar pump with two commercially available domestic panels pool , Panels were SSW to NNE sited laid flat on the roof of a concrete garage that sloped a foot or so in the 20 foot length of the roof towards the sun , so he got the max heat once the morning crud in the sky had burnt off.
Each evening just before the sun said good night he'd put two layers of bubble wrap over it . Several times he said it was too hot to bath in even inthe mornings . It was still hot enough to bathe in well after the first frost of the year .
I suspect that a 20 cubic metre fully insulated tank array filled with thick oil would take in a tremendous amount of heat if heated by a 20 panel home made with a solar pump to send it into the store over spring & summer for heat exchanger extraction when needed
It was my intention before I got crippled , lost health & earning capacity to construct such a system & put the array on a 35 foot high by two hundred metre long steep railway embankment the we owned as it ran almost SSSW to NNNE .
DAPPH
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In the 60's through to the end of the 80's I live in Germany often in old Nazi barracks .
In 1933 the Nazi's y started using slave labour to tread straw into lime inside dismantlable oak frames and make up 500 mm thick batts of it , when dried they were used as internal insulation in the walls of the barracks being constructed. They also had glazed wooden window frames with a 300 mm separation between the windows & parquet hardwood floors in all the barrack rooms .
Right up to the day I left in Dec 1980 those barrack rooms were superbly warm even when it was minus 20 oC outside .
Maybe if we learn from history instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we might just discover how to use the straw & lime insulation to an even greater insulating effect . Being lime & straw well dried insulation it was insect and rodent free
