Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[Fastdruid]

Why are you obsessed with the idea of electric cars suddenly “failing” when there’s no evidence that this happens any more than in an ICE vehicle? There are Tesla’s that have got well over 100,000 miles on that are still perfectly ok. (Those are the ones that have been around the longest, I’m sure there are others) as well as which battery tech has moved on from those early cars anyway.

There is little aftermarket support for these vehicles at the present time but do you think that won’t change as they come into the secondhand market and out of warranty? Of course not - garages will move with the time and the tech. What you see today is not what’s going to be there in 5,10 years time…

Actually EV's are less reliable than ICE...

Petrol cars are the most reliable followed by diesel followed by EV.

BUT there is a big difference there between the types of failure, with EV's it is mostly software issues rather than physical failures!

Audi TFSI piston ring problems, VW DSG gearboxes anyone? Both of those have been well documented and have basically written off plenty of otherwise perfectly good cars, or at least cost many thousands to put right.

Well the main issue there is people buying for the badge and a perception of mythical "build quality" that is nothing more than some nice plastics and some mass damping in the doors!

If you want reliable don't buy German, DSG/DCT automatics or diesels. Buy something manual, petrol and Japanese and it'll still be going when we're all driving round in Mr Fusion powered EV's!

 

[daleyd]

Actually EV's are less reliable than ICE...

Petrol cars are the most reliable followed by diesel followed by EV.

BUT there is a big difference there between the types of failure, with EV's it is mostly software issues rather than physical failures!



Well the main issue there is people buying for the badge and a perception of mythical "build quality" that is nothing more than some nice plastics and some mass damping in the doors!

If you want reliable don't buy German, DSG/DCT automatics or diesels. Buy something manual, petrol and Japanese and it'll still be going when we're all driving round in Mr Fusion powered EV's!

My point was really that the myths about battery packs suddenly dying and cars being worthless are kind of, at this moment in time at least, both largely unfounded and also not exclusive to EV.

The fact that Japanese cars are more reliable than others doesn’t alter that.

 

[premmington]

My point was really that the myths about battery packs suddenly dying and cars being worthless are kind of, at this moment in time at least, both largely unfounded and also not exclusive to EV.

The fact that Japanese cars are more reliable than others doesn’t alter that.

Most EV's and Hybrids don't suffer with battery failure - it is the EME KLE units - invertors that fail - these are hugely expensive.

Google i3 i8 EME failures and "read and weep"....

 

[Onoff]

There was a Tesla Model S dual motor driving like a looney on the M1 yesterday. Undertaking, jumping into very tight gaps between cars, hanging onto people bumpers in the outside lane and indicating right at 70+ even though all 3 lanes were full.

So BMW & Audi drivers obviously like them

If he was indicating then it's a bit unfair to compare him to a BMW driver!

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I like the idea of electrifying an old Mini, an electric Project Binky if you will.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://insideevs.com/news/586572/classic-mini-ev-clone-china/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwiOgPLwm5v5AhXZilwKHVlhDFEQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw39Bl6eSPc9FdU-TUoW6V1f

 

[Danez]

Why is the government not investing more into synthetic fuels. surely that is the much more sensible option for us going forward than these miserable milk floats as someone else put it.

The fact that they can be used in current ICE engines is nothing short of amazing, the only downside is the current high costs which surely could be resolved with more investment....

P.S anyone interested in buying a can of it for £50,000?

 

[fizzy]

Why are you obsessed with the idea of electric cars suddenly “failing” when there’s no evidence that this happens any more than in an ICE vehicle? There are Tesla’s that have got well over 100,000 miles on that are still perfectly ok. (Those are the ones that have been around the longest, I’m sure there are others) as well as which battery tech has moved on from those early cars anyway.

There is little aftermarket support for these vehicles at the present time but do you think that won’t change as they come into the secondhand market and out of warranty? Of course not - garages will move with the time and the tech. What you see today is not what’s going to be there in 5,10 years time…

Audi TFSI piston ring problems, VW DSG gearboxes anyone? Both of those have been well documented and have basically written off plenty of otherwise perfectly good cars, or at least cost many thousands to put right.

Tesla have had some serious build quality and design problems.
The extra weight of the batteries and the torque from electric motors are causing rear wheels to snap off under acceleration and front wheels/suspension to collapse under the extra weight.
For some reason they are calling it whompy wheel syndrome. Tesla have been trying to say the crash caused the suspension to collapse when in fact it was the other way around!

 

[fizzy]

Town planners are more concerned with traffic control than traffic flow
There was a greenpeace add for walking to work

I responded that most people can’t work local anymore and not every can be a bedroom activist

Our wonderful Welsh Assembly are bringing in a 20mph speed limit for EVERY 30mph road including dual carriageways. There is uproar over it but they don't care. They want to FORCE people to cycle or walk to walk. Wales is largely rural and doesn't have as good a transport network as London!

Sign the Petition

Stop the Welsh Govt imposing blanket 20mph speed limits across the whole of Wales by 2023

www.change.org

 

[daleyd]

Tesla have had some serious build quality and design problems.
The extra weight of the batteries and the torque from electric motors are causing rear wheels to snap off under acceleration and front wheels/suspension to collapse under the extra weight.
For some reason they are calling it whompy wheel syndrome. Tesla have been trying to say the crash caused the suspension to collapse when in fact it was the other way around!

View attachment 357344

Those Japanese will show them how to do it…oh wait

Global recall after loose wheel nut issue forces global recall of new electric SUV | Electrifying

Global recall after loose wheel nut issue forces global recall of new electric SUV

www.electrifying.com

 

[Fastdruid]

For clarity I live in the sticks and travel 1000miles a week.

If I was doing >50k/year then I too would be buying an EV!

In comparison I do about a tenth of that and my mileage falls into one of two "camps", really short journeys that would be ideal for an EV. Long journeys (some fully loaded and some towing) that would be totally unsuitable for an EV.

I figure at best I spend ~£500/year on fuel for the shorter "EV suitable" journeys, that's not enough of a saving to justify a second car even if electricity was free. It would need to be a second car as I need something which has decent range, will tow and big enough to take a family of 4 plus luggage and dog on holiday. Nothing EV will do that for less than about 60k (and it would have to be new or nearly new because there isn't anything second hand that would)!

(we shall ignore for a second that I despise SUV's and Crossovers and refuse to have one, I want an estate but there is the grand total of two EV estates, the MG 5 EV (which has a towing capacity of 500Kg which is too low) and the Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo (which is both too expensive and I don't think can tow). I quite like the PHEV 508 SW...but it's £60k for the one I'd want! About 20k more than a pure ICE estate.

 

[PhillipM]

Why is the government not investing more into synthetic fuels. surely that is the much more sensible option for us going forward than these miserable milk floats as someone else put it.

The fact that they can be used in current ICE engines is nothing short of amazing, the only downside is the current high costs which surely could be resolved with more investment....

P.S anyone interested in buying a can of it for £50,000?

Because for the vast majority of people an electric car is a much better driving experience anyway. Quiet, better NVH, no clutch, gears and much less driveline shunt in traffic, along with much faster throttle response, better traction control systems and instant torque.

 

[Fastdruid]

Why is the government not investing more into synthetic fuels. surely that is the much more sensible option for us going forward than these miserable milk floats as someone else put it.

The fact that they can be used in current ICE engines is nothing short of amazing, the only downside is the current high costs which surely could be resolved with more investment....

P.S anyone interested in buying a can of it for £50,000?

Cost is the reason. Dino juice is cheap. It's going to be far cheaper to run a vehicle off the electricity you'd need to make synthetic fuel than to run one off that fuel.

Synthetic fuel will be the preserve of the rich to run their supercars off.

 

[fizzy]

Because for the vast majority of people an electric car is a much better driving experience anyway. Quiet, better NVH, no clutch, gears and much less driveline shunt in traffic, along with much faster throttle response, better traction control systems and instant torque.

Along with impaired handling and braking due to excess weight.

 

[daleyd]

Along with impaired handling and braking due to excess weight.

A model S is 2000kg vs 1700 for a 5 series. Heavier, yes, but really not the massive issue you are suggesting.

 

[PhillipM]

Along with impaired handling and braking due to excess weight.

Extra weight in the chassis actually improves ride characteristics. You might have slightly less grip for a given tyre size due to extra loading but that also has nothing to do with handling either.
It's also not that much different to the shear amount of mass in a modern ICE car either because you likely have 100kg of stuff in there just to improve the NVH these days.

 

[brewdexta]

Along with impaired handling and braking due to excess weight.

An ICE Nissan Qashqui and and EV Nissan Leaf both weigh around 1600kg depending on model.

Batteries are down low so a low centre of gravity.

So can't see your argument making sense unless your comparing a Caterham with a model S

 

[Wozzaaah]

Along with impaired handling and braking due to excess weight.

Clutching at straws now.......

 

[fizzy]

Clutching at straws now.......

Nope - laws of physics. Think about it. Electric cars are quite a bit heavier than the IC equivalent. They also tend to have thinner tyres to reduce rolling resistance. It is pretty obvious that a car say 500kg heavier on 225 tyres will not stop as quickly as a lighter car on the same or wider tyres.

 

[PhillipM]

Which is generally a fairly small effect and inconsequential on most road cars outside of things that can overheat their tyres compared to the actual geo, spring/damper rates, tyre compound, etc.
Electric cars also generally have better abs systems because the motor torque/regen brakes has a much faster control loop reaction time than the hydraulics even with modern high frequency ABS units.

It's absolutely possible to make a 2000kg car great handling and braking even on 235's or similar. That Tesla's aren't is mainly down to other design issues and cost decisions.

 

[Keith 66]

In the last few months i have noticed at least 5 new evs in our road & surrounding ones, seems we see a new one every week. Most will be used for short runs but most are big electric suv's because thats what mummy wants to run the kids to school. These have great fat tyres & are big heavy cars so hardly efficient.
All these will be charged on infrastructure that was built post WW2 or even pre war. Last year we had intermittent power faults caused by a faulty cable, the engineers dug holes here there & everywhere, fixed one fault then another would surface. They never did find one fault that is still causing problems in an area a quarter of a mile away. Apparently some of the underground supply cables date back to the 1930's & are way past their sell by date.
Yet we try to suck more & more power out of an increasingly overloaded system.