Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[brewdexta]

A bit unfair to pick a heavy Focus and a light leaf....

If we pick two other versions...

Ford Focus 1.0 EcoBoost 125 Active 1280Kg
Leaf Acenta 1680Kg

That's 5 MiL's, going to have to stick one in the boot (as the DIN Kerb weight includes a driver).

Maybe choose a Focus with the same acceleration as the Leaf

 

[PhillipM]

You've been driving the wrong Caterham.

Run on the standard shocks and springs, sitting on their leather seats, its a lovely comfy ride (unless it's really bad road) - floats over most bumps, where my bosses Audi crashes, bangs and vibrates, the other halfs Fiesta jerks and jiggles.

It's as easy as this. Keeping everything else the same and just adjusting springs rates, etc, in proportion, a 1000kg version of a caterham would ride better. It's just basic vehicle physics.

 

[PhillipM]

And there was me thinking the wider the tyre the more rubber hence the more friction there was..................
It is pretty obvious that a 255 tyre will have more grip than a 225 tyre of the same compound?

Barely anything, the main difference would be in transient responses and control of temperature/wear on something powerful. You're talking 1 or 2% on a warm dry road for outright grip.

 

[PhillipM]

modern ice's can be properly quiet and most are auto anyway I don't think driving preference should be a factor in what the government invests in either

I think it should when making synthetic fuels is using the same electricity you could dump straight into a battery powered car, or the alternative is massive ethanol sugar crops that are poor on efficency and use up valuable food crop space.

 

[fizzy]

Barely anything, the main difference would be in transient responses and control of temperature/wear on something powerful. You're talking 1 or 2% on a warm dry road.

So why do powerful cars have bigger tyres? Why do F1 cars have such wide tyres?
Obviously tyre pressure can have an effect and many other things.
Don't get me wrong - you can have tyres that are too wide of course. Then you get more grip but rubbish handling. And in the wet wide tyres are worse.

 

[PhillipM]

So why do powerful cars have bigger tyres? Why do F1 cars have such wide tyres?
Obviously tyre pressure can have an effect and many other things.

Wear and temperature control. Transient responses. Carcass stability. And because 1% matters on a racecar.

 

[fizzy]

Wear and temperature control. Transient responses. Carcass stability. And because 1% matters on a racecar.

Try riding a bicycle with skinny and fat tyres - you will soon feel the difference!
And then of course you have slicks and tread - why do slicks grip more in the dry? More friction. The bigger the contact patch the better.
Take it further - lets see how fast you will accelerate in a 911 Turbo with 185 tyres on the back

 

[brewdexta]

The Leaf does 6.9s 0-60 on 215 tyres

 

[PhillipM]

Try riding a bicycle with skinny and fat tyres - you will soon feel the difference!
And then of course you have slicks and tread - why do slicks grip more in the dry? More friction. The bigger the contact patch the better.
Take it further - lets see how fast you will accelerate in a 911 Turbo with 185 tyres on the back

You know what the biggest difference in between the bike tyres is? Rolling resistance, and ride quality. That's what you feel.
The biggest reason for slicks in the dry is to reduce tyre temperature buildup from the tread blocks moving around, the extra contact patch makes little difference.

As for accelerating. The buggy does 0-60 in 5 seconds with mud terrain knobblies on the back and they're a hard compound too.
In terms of accelerating from a standstill it'll make little difference. The wide tyres are for stability and heat buildup at sustained high speeds mainly.
As I said earlier. The difference, on road tyres, of even DOUBLING the weight of a vehicle for the same tyres - providing it's still within the carcass loading - is only around 12-15% in outright grip.
Most of the thing with wider and differential tyre sizes is in response and transients to control the way the car goes into a corner and apex, and chassis engineers controlling the way the car feels, rather than outright grip changes.
And when you get to road cars, with wet weather, snow, etc to deal with. You can definately over-tyre a car. Especially when it comes to aquaplaning.

 

[mike os]

I wonder what kind of efficiency could be wrought out if something more akin to an Anglia rather than 2 plus tonnes of well basically planet killing environmental disaster

 

[PhillipM]

A lot worse give the aerodynamics of an Anglia, which is your main loss in an EV.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

A lot worse give the aerodynamics of an Anglia, which is your main loss in an EV.

I think we can assume he meant in size and weight rather than a replica don't you.

 

[mike os]

A lot worse give the aerodynamics of an Anglia, which is your main loss in an EV.

Worse than a brick with wheels?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I wonder what kind of efficiency could be wrought out if something more akin to an Anglia rather than 2 plus tonnes of well basically planet killing environmental disaster

Always find pictures like these staggering.

 

[PhillipM]

Worse than a brick with wheels?

Even large modern SUV's are pretty good aerodynamically compared to things like Anglia's etc.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Saw BMW are making customers pay subscription for heated seats recently. Akin to this.

Tesla locks 80 miles of customer’s battery range for $4,500 ransom

Tesla tried to force a customer to pay $4,500 ransom over 80 miles of range that the company software-locked in his battery pack. The automaker only started to walk back on the strategy to squeeze $4,500 out of its customers after an uproar on social media. Tesla used to sell Model S vehicles...

electrek.co

 

[PhillipM]

I think we can assume he meant in size and weight rather than a replica don't you.

Nobody wants to buy cars that small any more, and you can't get down to that sort of weight with modern crash tests and comfort expectations.
That mini comparison you posted there - the new MINI's are huge and as cars I hate 'em, they're terrible, give me an original any day of the week. But in terms of crashes they'll dissipate almost ten times the energy of an old one for the same force on the passengers in a front 3/4 offset. Ten times.
And in terms of efficiency the old Mini is about 90-100% worse in aero drag.
And while they are big cars, in terms of frontal area they're barely any different, because of the flatter sides, less/more integrated arch flares, integrated bumpers, no flared panel seams, etc, and most of the size being in extra length.
So even accounting for that, a new MINI is about 80% more efficient than the old one in terms of aero losses. I'm afraid it's rose tinted glasses and a lot of deceptive stuff when it comes to percieved inefficiency just because something is large.
A classic Mini is a horribly inefficient little thing. Fun. But terrible. I'd still take one in a heartbeat.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Nobody wants to buy cars that small any more, and you can't get down to that sort of weight with modern crash tests and comfort expectations.
That mini comparison you posted there - the new MINI's are huge and as cars I hate 'em, they're terrible, give me an original any day of the week. But in terms of crashes they'll dissipate almost ten times the energy of an old one for the same force on the passengers in a front 3/4 offset. Ten times.
And in terms of efficiency the old Mini is about 90-100% worse in aero drag.
And while they are big cars, in terms of frontal area they're barely any different, because of the flatter sides, less arch flares, integrated bumpers, no flared panel seams, etc, and most of the size being in extra length.
So even accounting for that, a new MINI is about 80% more efficient than the old one in terms of aero losses. I'm afraid it's rose tinted glasses and a lot of deceptive stuff when it comes to percieved inefficiency just because something is large.
A classic Mini is a horribly inefficient little thing. Fun. But terrible. I'd still take one in a heartbeat.

As would I. I've always wanted one. Or a 205gti


Modern tech and aero in a small lightweight car would be interesting.

 

[Onoff]

Because for the vast majority of people an electric car is a much better driving experience anyway.

But they don't go BRUM, BRUM!!! like a V8 and make your winky feel funny...

 

[PhillipM]

But they don't go BRUM, BRUM!!! like a V8 and make your winky feel funny...

See I love that, I'm a petrolheaded nut, my daily is a V6, the weekend car is in my avatar, I've build racecars from the ground up from scratch, everything from aircooled motors, to rotaries, to screaming V10's.But I also know when my preferences are not making sense for the vast majority and when there are big upsides even to something I don't personally want.