Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[fizzy]

The Leaf does 6.9s 0-60 on 215 tyres

Brakes are a lot more powerful than an engine!

 

[fizzy]

You know what the biggest difference in between the bike tyres is? Rolling resistance, and ride quality. That's what you feel.
The biggest reason for slicks in the dry is to reduce tyre temperature buildup from the tread blocks moving around, the extra contact patch makes little difference.

As for accelerating. The buggy does 0-60 in 5 seconds with mud terrain knobblies on the back and they're a hard compound too.
In terms of accelerating from a standstill it'll make little difference. The wide tyres are for stability and heat buildup at sustained high speeds mainly.
As I said earlier. The difference, on road tyres, of even DOUBLING the weight of a vehicle for the same tyres - providing it's still within the carcass loading - is only around 12-15% in outright grip.
Most of the thing with wider and differential tyre sizes is in response and transients to control the way the car goes into a corner and apex, and chassis engineers controlling the way the car feels, rather than outright grip changes.
And when you get to road cars, with wet weather, snow, etc to deal with. You can definately over-tyre a car. Especially when it comes to aquaplaning.

I already mentioned wet roads and aquaplaning.
I used to get loads of Insignias on hire. All the same engine and suspension. Tyres would be 245s but 18, 19 or 20" wheels so different profiles. Grip always the same but the 20s were horrible. Hard ride and 5 blowouts from potholes.
I once had the same model fitted with 215s. It understeered like mad. Hated it.
Conversely I also has an A4 diesel 140bhp with 255s on it. Same as the 510bhp Jag xf. It was definitely over tyred!
Wet motorways 185vwouod be better!

 

[PhillipM]

I had a couple, motability cars, I think 17s on one and 19s on the other, okay car but dull as dishwater for handling.

 

[PhillipM]

That shows how little difference you're talking in outright grip in the dry - mostly its just changing handling balance that contributes. And how seriously bad it can change things in the wet.
Weight on narrow road tyres isn't really an issue for grip. As I said, it's mainly transients.

 

[Revs1972]

Instead of wasting shed loads of money on HS2 , they should have used it to develop more power stations.
And with the cost of electricity being what it is, the payback would be a lot sooner
Never mind, at least the French will own ours and we all know how reasonable they are

 

[PhillipM]

We should have been on bulk nuclear 20 years ago tbfh.

 

[Danez]

I think it should when making synthetic fuels is using the same electricity you could dump straight into a battery powered car, or the alternative is massive ethanol sugar crops that are poor on efficency and use up valuable food crop space.

Problem is battery powered cars lack the infrastructure for charging them. How would people in flats or terraced houses manage? how long until electric prices go up to the point where it costs more to fill than petrol?
The batteries aren't exactly eco friendly themselves either.

Where as for using electric for synthetic fuels, special facilities could be set up, with their own power station or using the grid, whichever is more feasible

I agree ethanol is a big waste of time

 

[PhillipM]

It's gonna be a balance, not one way or the other, but synth fuels are always going to be more expensive.
My brother has an electric car, he lives a few doors away, it's all terraced housing with bad parking, he has a normal cable and an overhead boom for it over the pavement. Cost about 30 quid.
Some people won't have that but for most people we're starting to get enough range that it won't matter if they go charge the car for an hour somewhere at work or once or twice a week.

 

[minimutly]

You've been driving the wrong Caterham.

Run on the standard shocks and springs, sitting on their leather seats, its a lovely comfy ride (unless it's really bad road) - floats over most bumps, where my bosses Audi crashes, bangs and vibrates, the other halfs Fiesta jerks and jiggles.

Surprises most who sit in the passenger seat just how comfy it is. An ex had serous coccyx problems, that eventually required an operation - no issues with being in it. Does change in the wet as it's simply not got enough weight to cut down through the water.

One set up for track use might very well be terrible on the road - but in 21 yrs, mines never been on a track - jacked that sort of thing in when I sold my Westfield - which did start off with a horrible road ride due to too stiff springs.

Worse riding car ever - kia anything. Especially the tall one sportage I think my neighbour had. Puke inducing stiffness. They must have smooth roads in the land of eating dogs.

 

[minimutly]

It's as easy as this. Keeping everything else the same and just adjusting springs rates, etc, in proportion, a 1000kg version of a caterham would ride better. It's just basic vehicle physics.

You can't have it both ways - anfew posts back you were saying heavier cars ride better. If thats the case just fit lighter springs and shocks to match.
Round and round...

 

[RonMig]

Slightly more on-topic ...

One main attraction to EVs seems to be the low cost to recharge...? (ignoring health of the planet...)
Well, Electric used to be cheap (ish) at 16p per KwH - but now its nearer to 30p per KwH
And it's predicted to be 50p per KwH by the end of this year.

So - what happens when electricity charges reach £2 per KwH (next year, then)
and on top of this, when All vehicles are being charged 10p per mile.
I'll leave the maths to you experts...

In my Youuuff (1972) petrol was 35p per gallon (=8p per litre), so the above rises Will happen...

 

[daleyd]

Slightly more on-topic ...

One main attraction to EVs seems to be the low cost to recharge...? (ignoring health of the planet...)
Well, Electric used to be cheap (ish) at 16p per KwH - but now its nearer to 30p per KwH
And it's predicted to be 50p per KwH by the end of this year.

So - what happens when electricity charges reach £2 per KwH (next year, then)
and on top of this, when All vehicles are being charged 10p per mile.
I'll leave the maths to you experts...

In my Youuuff (1972) petrol was 35p per gallon (=8p per litre), so the above rises Will happen...

You pay more it’s fairly obvious isn’t it?

 

[PhillipM]

You can't have it both ways - anfew posts back you were saying heavier cars ride better. If thats the case just fit lighter springs and shocks to match.
Round and round...

What do you mean both ways?
I just said, in both instances, heavier chassis ride better. I never said otherwise. It's basic physics.
You mean adjusting spring rates in proportion? That's basics too. Vehicles are designed around suspension frequencies. So you'd match the two for frequencies to compare evenly.

 

[Danez]

It's gonna be a balance, not one way or the other, but synth fuels are always going to be more expensive.
My brother has an electric car, he lives a few days away, it's all terraced housing with bad parking, he has a normal cable and an overhead boom for it over the pavement. Cost about 30 quid.
Some people won't have that but for most people we're starting to get enough range that it won't matter if they go charge the car for an hour somewhere at work or once or twice a week.

yeah both will have to exist together, electric certainly wont be for me lol

 

[R Kraft]

I think that that is changing relentlessly (& which will kill off "Bangernomics") is the built-in obsolescence and unreliability of vehicles (almost certainly by design), and the increasing difficulty or prevention of affordable repair/mtce of vehicles (most certainly by design).

Where you could in the not-too-distant past find a well-made, reliable car at 7-8 years-old, that could be largely self-maintained and trusted to give years of service at low cost - it seems none of the vehicles made in the last decade seem to offer that.

The EV is just taking the base cost of even a small car up into the stratosphere, and taking the potential for home mtce or even independent garage affordable mtce away, while anyone buying a 10-yr-old EV trying to get an affordable vehicle - has to play the lottery that the cars cells etc won't suddenly fail, with that expense immediately writing the car off and leaving the owner skint and car-less.

IMO there is no doubt that motoring will return to being the preserve of the wealthy, because the clear trend is to drive costs up beyond the means of the many, and to both outlaw and render useless/uneconomical the kind of vehicles that the "non-wealthy" need.

Let's face it, the simplest way to reduce traffic volumes and reduce emissions isn't to just produce so-called clean vehicles - it's to drastically reduce the number of vehicles altogether. The trend the Govt & the Car Industry is following appear to conspire to be pushing us towards this reality.

Varied sources have stated that to reach the "Green" goal in 8 years.
The cost of everything that emits or causes carbon emission must be increased by 45%.
This was to be accomplished by higher prices and strategic taxes.
I can not speak for everyone that reads this, but I don't have the capacity to survive such a thing.

 

[minimutly]

What do you mean both ways?
I just said, in both instances, heavier chassis ride better. I never said otherwise. It's basic physics.
You mean adjusting spring rates in proportion? That's basics too. Vehicles are designed around suspension frequencies. So you'd match the two for frequencies to compare evenly.

Extra weight in the chassis actually improves ride characteristics. You might have slightly less grip for a given tyre size due to extra loading but that also has nothing to do with handling either.
It's also not that much different to the shear amount of mass in a modern ICE car either because you likely have 100kg of stuff in there just to improve the NVH these days.

Well up there^ you said heavier cars had better dynamics. Well if they were sprung too stiff to start off yes. Adding weight to improve dynamics is a mugs game, just lighten the springs.

 

[PhillipM]

Err, no, that would change the design frequency of the suspension. Which isn't a valid comparison. Then you start needing more travel or more rideheight and you've affected the dynamics.
At the end it's very simply a matter of mass and stiffness in the chassis, and the sprung to unsprung weight ratio for wheel control. Both of which are better with a heavy vehicle.

For someone arguing about it so much I have to say you appear to know bugger all about the basics.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

It's gonna be a balance, not one way or the other, but synth fuels are always going to be more expensive.
My brother has an electric car, he lives a few days away, it's all terraced housing with bad parking, he has a normal cable and an overhead boom for it over the pavement. Cost about 30 quid.
Some people won't have that but for most people we're starting to get enough range that it won't matter if they go charge the car for an hour somewhere at work or once or twice a week.

As a domestic trade I'm working at people's houses daily.

Some method of billing electric use from a dedicated socket to bill a end user would be very handy

Varied sources have stated that to reach the "Green" goal in 8 years.
The cost of everything that emits or causes carbon emission must be increased by 45%.
This was to be accomplished by higher prices and strategic taxes.
I can not speak for everyone that reads this, but I don't have the capacity to survive such a thing.

Bet that had these huge companies rubbing their greedy little hands together.

Why can't we tax the hell out of the profits gained by exploiting the planet instead

 

[fizzy]

Err, no, that would change the design frequency of the suspension. Which isn't a valid comparison. Then you start needing more travel or more rideheight and you've affected the dynamics.
At the end it's very simply a matter of mass and stiffness in the chassis, and the sprung to unsprung weight ratio for wheel control. Both of which are better with a heavy vehicle.

For someone arguing about it so much I have to say you appear to know bugger all about the basics.

Trust me he knows rather a lot

 

[minimutly]

Err, no, that would change the design frequency of the suspension. Which isn't a valid comparison. Then you start needing more travel or more rideheight and you've affected the dynamics.
At the end it's very simply a matter of mass and stiffness in the chassis, and the sprung to unsprung weight ratio for wheel control. Both of which are better with a heavy vehicle.

For someone arguing about it so much I have to say you appear to know bugger all about the basics.

Thanks.