Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[Dave-sparks]

I stand corrected. Just looked it up and it's 9mm in copper, 12mm in aluminum, so definitely significant. I've got an offcut of some "flex" somewhere from a massive generator for a temporary supply, it's about 2" thick!

At 2" thick I'd hazard a guess it's going to be 35mm 5 core flex which is commonly used with 125A 3 phase commando plugs/sockets for distribution.
Anything bigger than that we normally use sets of 5 seperate single core flex with single pole plug/socket connectors known as powerlock.

One of the many things I get up to is doing temporary power for events, music festivals etc.

 

[mike os]

No the nuclear stations should NOT be paid more - but why are windfarms being paid 4x as much? It's not right

given their level of real world profit i question why they receive any subsidies at all... if they were borderline profitability then possibly.

 

[fizzy]

At 2" thick I'd hazard a guess it's going to be 35mm 5 core flex which is commonly used with 125A 3 phase commando plugs/sockets for distribution.
Anything bigger than that we normally use sets of 5 seperate single core flex with single pole plug/socket connectors known as powerlock.

One of the many things I get up to is doing temporary power for events, music festivals etc.

I remember a big power outage at a main data centre - they had battery backup but not for the aircon and all the servers were tripping out due to the heat. Finally at 2am a big generator arrived. They were puzzling how to get the power cables through - so I told them to just stick them through the window in the ladies toilets
Elf and Safety bloke almost had heart failure when they came back in Monday morning. The MD was very grateful though

 

[minimutly]

No the nuclear stations should NOT be paid more - but why are windfarms being paid 4x as much? It's not right

They are being paid the rate per kWh. Price goes up, they get more. Price goes down they get less. That’s what happens when you produce something, you sell it on the open market. If you really want to be annoyed - think on this - the FIT is linked to inflation, so a 10% inflation figure increases that be a penny a year - plus compounding.

 

[minimutly]

given their level of real world profit i question why they receive any subsidies at all... if they were borderline profitability then possibly.

It’s really not that simple for nuclear (or anything else of that size) simply, because of the sheer size, cost and time to switch on, plus some risk, the producer gets an agreed up front strike price. Without this no one would build these things. Except governments of course, and we all know they couldn’t build a sandcastle...

 

[minimutly]

They are being paid the rate per kWh. Price goes up, they get more. Price goes down they get less. That’s what happens when you produce something, you sell it on the open market. If you really want to be annoyed - think on this - the FIT is linked to inflation, so a 10% inflation figure increases that be a penny a year - plus compounding.

Oops, spot the schoolboy maths error...

 

[Maker]

Anything bigger than that we normally use sets of 5 seperate single core flex with single pole plug/socket connectors known as powerlock.

It's single core, the shipping container sized generator had two sets of powerlock connectors, presumably the 800A version, so 1600A per phase! I'll attach a picture if I can find one.


3 sets of connectors actually, so 1500 or 2400A per phase!

Skinny Eco deathtrap tyre for scale.

Edit: I just noticed one of the neutrals isn't connected, I wonder if the picture was while they were still setting up, or maybe they knew it was a well balanced load so doesn't need the full neutral capacity.


The chunk I've got isn't that flex, that was a temporary supply while a backup generator was being installed, I've got a piece of the cable from the permanent backup genny.

 

[PhillipM]

Also when people are going for more economy they over inflate their tyres - which makes the contact area smaller - hence less friction and better economy.

No, that's because there's less carcass deformation and heat lost to hysteresis. Nothing really to do with the smaller contact area bar tiny effects.

 

[GRW]

It's single core, the shipping container sized generator had two sets of powerlock connectors, presumably the 800A version, so 1600A per phase! I'll attach a picture if I can find one.

Largest common single core is 240 square mm. It's heavy!
We did have some 300mm for a customer once - and that's getting a bit too much tbh.

 

[PhillipM]

Why do eco cars have skinnier tyres then?

Wind resistance. Aero losses are far higher with wide tyres.
And aero loss around the wheel/tyre and wheelwells is a big chunk of the drag on modern cars, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the losses of the entire car

 

[Robotstar5]

I remember a big power outage at a main data centre - they had battery backup but not for the aircon and all the servers were tripping out due to the heat. Finally at 2am a big generator arrived. They were puzzling how to get the power cables through - so I told them to just stick them through the window in the ladies toilets
Elf and Safety bloke almost had heart failure when they came back in Monday morning. The MD was very grateful though

I thought windows were a standard cable entry point

 

[fizzy]

No, that's because there's less carcass deformation and heat lost to hysteresis. Nothing really to do with the smaller contact area bar tiny effects.

Surely the carcass deformation is what increases the contact patch and friction?
Rock crawlers deflate their tyres to get more grip.
And ride a bike with a soft tyre - or try to - the difference is very obvious.

 

[fizzy]

I thought windows were a standard cable entry point

View attachment 357541

That looks so much like my last unit in an old Ford factory!

 

[daleyd]

They are being paid the rate per kWh. Price goes up, they get more. Price goes down they get less. That’s what happens when you produce something, you sell it on the open market. If you really want to be annoyed - think on this - the FIT is linked to inflation, so a 10% inflation figure increases that be a penny a year - plus compounding.

Don’t tell him that, I think he’s already on the verge of needing therapy….

“Show me on the doll where the wind farm inappropriately touched you”

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Surely the carcass deformation is what increases the contact patch and friction?
Rock crawlers deflate their tyres to get more grip.
And ride a bike with a soft tyre - or try to - the difference is very obvious.

Comparing off road to on is a bit of a stretch.

I used to run 3.5psi rear 4.2psi front on my trials bikes. And I spent a lot of time finding those numbers for those tyres. I'd increase slightly if it was dry and rock riding. But the above figures were spot on for mud.

 

[PhillipM]

Surely the carcass deformation is what increases the contact patch and friction?
Rock crawlers deflate their tyres to get more grip.
And ride a bike with a soft tyre - or try to - the difference is very obvious.

No, heat is built up by the carcass deforming and twisting, that's where the energy goes.
Rock crawlers deflate their tyres to reduce tyre preload and allow the tyre to wrap around obstacles to get more force on a normal in the direction of travel. Or to allow a lug to grab an edge for the same reason.
It's not the increased contact patch that's giving them more grip, it's what's happening with it.
And as said before, the vast majority what you feel on a bike with a soft tyre is rolling resistance from loosing energy as heat into the carcass. Not because the contact patch is smaller per se.

 

[Maker]

This tyre width thing was (is?) hotly contested amongst cyclists, for years it was the hardest, skinniest tyres your gooch could manage, but recently they're going for 28 or 30mm tyres at slightly lower pressure, and this year's TDF was one of the fastest ever so there must be something to it.

 

[PhillipM]

At some point though there's no point going narrower because you're not improving aero, the blockage from your legs behind is higher, ends up being worse. They found similar effects with disc wheels at one point, they're better in a perfect straight line world, but far worse than a spoked or semi-disc as soon as there's any sort of turbulence or crosswinds.

I don't think they're too concerned about outright grip on TDF. Traction losses at some point sure, less pressure and a wider tyre gives less radial stiffness so you have elastic deformation in the nylon or aramid capping belts instead of losing it by slipping the tread - climbing power is inherently far more peaky a delivery than the steady state.

 

[GRW]

This tyre width thing was (is?) hotly contested amongst cyclists, for years it was the hardest, skinniest tyres your gooch could manage, but recently they're going for 28 or 30mm tyres at slightly lower pressure, and this year's TDF was one of the fastest ever so there must be something to it.

I wonder if that just might be at least in part - to less fatigue of the rider, due to less constant jarring through rock-hard tyres, uber-stiff wheels and carbon-fibre frame etc. - rather than any significant dynamic improvement due to running higher-volume and slightly lower pressures though?

Racing bicycles weight next-to-nothing and are all intents and purposes, rigid. Their mass v the mass of the rider - means that every bump, chipping, etc - gets transmitted directly into the riders body.

On my pretty ordinary aluminium frame drop-handle road cycle - I don't run the tyres at the max 110psi - because its jarring as hell on our roads - I run them lower, and am sure I feel physically better and run better, even though I ought to be feeling its more "draggy".

 

[PhillipM]

Fatigue is a big issue in a lot of racing stuff.
Power steering, seats and suspension settings in Dakar, Rally, even in F1 get compromised in the name of driver fatigue - you lose 0.05s per lap to driver fatigue from a car being handful and suddenly there's minute missing at the end of the event. The bikes on the Dakar especially.