Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[daleyd]

Not if the "side" doesn't have a vested interest it doesn't.
There are people still left in the world without an agenda, and who form opinions based upon their own thoughts and observations.

As @DAPPH points out though - the chief difficulty now is in getting any unbiased / skewed / plain fabricated data or information.

Often the only ones with a strong idea of the reality - are those involved at a senior level in whatever it is..... and the last thing they'll do is provide unbiased, truly accurate, complete answers.

It's a bit like the info supplied earlier (sorry forget who posted) - that on the day in question Solar was providing 13.5% of the UK Energy needs.
In isolation that doesn't sound too bad... but it ought to be qualified by the fact that its only doing so when taken in a "Snapshot" of time, and that over a 24-hr period, at a UK annual average of about 10-hrs or so of Daylight - that the average contribution of Solar is very, very much less than 13.5%.

Before someone points it out - yes the Solar is active during the "busiest" period of the 24-hrs - so the impact of Solar isn't linear, so it's harder to estimate its true contribution..... but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that the 13.5% snapshot probably translates to an average annual contribution of perhaps 5%???

Maybe someone has figures on annual Solar contribution (though of course we can question the veracity of the data - see above )

Edit: a quick Google suggests the consensus of annual UK Solar contribution is 4% - so it seems I wasn't far out, even 20% generous in my guesstimate .
Proves the point about cherry-picking data to "prove" an argument though (as the 13.5% figure unqualified - is very misleading)

Isn’t that very similar to saying that wind production today is “only” 1.5% (because that suits your argument) and annual figures show it’s actually about 24% over the year? Like you say, getting an unbiased opinion is rather tricky, no?

 

[Revs1972]

Saw on the TV news yesterday ( Friday ) that Russia has been & burnt 4.3 million cubic metres of gas close to the Finnish border.
Is that a one off or is it happening every 24 hours of late ?

Without going all tin hat, if that’s what the MSM is dressing it up as, then it’s probably bullcrap

 

[DAPPH]

It was on all manner of TV news channels too

 

[fizzy]

It was on all manner of TV news channels too

They are doing it because their pipeline is down for "maintenance".
The flaring is way beyond what is normally expected.
As a kid it was my greatest delight to be allowed to light the flares in the oil refinery in Aden.

 

[Bullet2012]

I can’t believe we’ve got to 48 pages of this drivel. it just keeps going round and round in circles.

It’s getting very tedious now.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

 

[Bullet2012]

Phew, the soda stream ran out

 

[Richiew]

They finally got a room.

 

[DAPPH]

Had almost 9 hrs of continuous generation today ranging from just a small 658 watt to 2. 86 kwhr and also charge the car , then used the condensing dryer for a king size quilt cover & bed sheet + 2 pillow cases .

If only I could use this 24.7 oC heat that's inside 5the bungalow just now instead of trying to gwrt rid of it thrpough the windows tric=kle vents fo dir ewodniw dehca

 

[fizzy]

It’s getting very tedious now.

Had almost 9 hrs of continuous generation today ranging from just a small 658 watt to 2. 86 kwhr and also charge the car , then used the condensing dryer for a king size quilt cover & bed sheet + 2 pillow cases .

If only I could use this 24.7 oC heat that's inside 5the bungalow just now instead of trying to gwrt rid of it thrpough the windows tric=kle vents fo dir ewodniw dehca

What do you get in the Winter? What does it drop down to on a typical dark dingy Welsh day?
Serious question I would genuinely like to know if they are as bad as I think or as good as people say.

 

[Morrisman]

Had almost 9 hrs of continuous generation today ranging from just a small 658 watt to 2. 86 kwhr and also charge the car , then used the condensing dryer for a king size quilt cover & bed sheet + 2 pillow cases .

If only I could use this 24.7 oC heat that's inside 5the bungalow just now instead of trying to gwrt rid of it thrpough the windows tric=kle vents fo dir ewodniw dehca

Is that last bit Walsh?
I'm in a bungalow too, my bedroom has sliding doors into the back yard, and it's always chilly in my room late evening, no matter how hot the day was.

 

[Bullet2012]

**Language**

 

[DennisCA]

As someone said this discussion just goes round and round.

So here's something else, but still on topic.

 

[Kayos]

Not if the "side" doesn't have a vested interest it doesn't.
There are people still left in the world without an agenda, and who form opinions based upon their own thoughts and observations.

As @DAPPH points out though - the chief difficulty now is in getting any unbiased / skewed / plain fabricated data or information.

Often the only ones with a strong idea of the reality - are those involved at a senior level in whatever it is..... and the last thing they'll do is provide unbiased, truly accurate, complete answers.

It's a bit like the info supplied earlier (sorry forget who posted) - that on the day in question Solar was providing 13.5% of the UK Energy needs.
In isolation that doesn't sound too bad... but it ought to be qualified by the fact that its only doing so when taken in a "Snapshot" of time, and that over a 24-hr period, at a UK annual average of about 10-hrs or so of Daylight - that the average contribution of Solar is very, very much less than 13.5%.

Before someone points it out - yes the Solar is active during the "busiest" period of the 24-hrs - so the impact of Solar isn't linear, so it's harder to estimate its true contribution..... but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that the 13.5% snapshot probably translates to an average annual contribution of perhaps 5%???

Maybe someone has figures on annual Solar contribution (though of course we can question the veracity of the data - see above )

Edit: a quick Google suggests the consensus of annual UK Solar contribution is 4% - so it seems I wasn't far out, even 20% generous in my guesstimate .
Proves the point about cherry-picking data to "prove" an argument though (as the 13.5% figure unqualified - is very misleading)

Solar generation is at very best an educated guess, at worse it's a figure chosen to suit a particular agenda

There is no mass metering of solar, a lot of it is behind the meter

 

[GRW]

Solar generation is at very best an educated guess, at worse it's a figure chosen to suit a particular agenda

There is no mass metering of solar, a lot of it is behind the meter

Isn't there a local secondary meter to record the energy the Solar produces (whether sold to grid or used at source) to be able to claim the FIT subsidy?

(I get that there will get some small systems like say off-grid where there may be no metering - but that's not likely to add up to much).

 

[fizzy]

Solar generation is at very best an educated guess, at worse it's a figure chosen to suit a particular agenda

There is no mass metering of solar, a lot of it is behind the meter

I know solar isn't metered but for anything grid connected surely they would know how much is flowing around? They definitely know how much wind/gas/nuclear etc is being generated and how much is coming through interconnectors - they also know what demand is at any point in time. So add up all the percentages and then subtract from actual demand? Obviously it is only a guesstimate.

 

[Kayos]

Isn't there a local secondary meter to record the energy the Solar produces (whether sold to grid or used at source) to be able to claim the FIT subsidy?

(I get that there will get some small systems like say off-grid where there may be no metering - but that's not likely to add up to much).

Nope, some local metering for payments but any large scale stuff is just renewable energy

Edited as I'm unable to think straight

 

[fizzy]

There is a big fuss over electricity in Norway at the moment.
Dirt cheap in the North but sky high prices in the South. Too expensive to connect the Northern sites down south so they just buy electricity off Sweden. Due to drought and gas prices Southern Norway are now paying more than us!

 

[fizzy]

Nope, some local metering for subsidies but any large scale stuff is just renewable energy

Wind farms still get subsidies - doesn't solar? They must be metered to know how much to pay them?

 

[Kayos]

Wind farms still get subsidies - doesn't solar? They must be metered to know how much to pay them?

Why?

Why the focus on subsidies? Some energy is generated and sold, like the free market economy

Non of the multi megawatt installs I'm involved with get anything other than paid for the energy produced, this is metered at site so they know how much to get paid, it is not monitored centrally for some made up or imagined subsidy