Elliott OMNISPEED lathe

[Agroshield]

As you can see, the quick change tool holder (on its lowest setting) is sitting slightly higher than the original tool post

When you show the picture of the rusty original toolpost above, there are shims under the tool in it. For that tool, you need to compare the top of the shim pack to the bottom of the Dickson holder.

When/if the bolt fails I will remake the bolt and the female insert part.

You would not need to remake the whole bolt. Cut off the projecting male thread, dril and tap for a female thread and loctite in a stud.

 

[Smouser]

When you show the picture of the rusty original toolpost above, there are shims under the tool in it. For that tool, you need to compare the top of the shim pack to the bottom of the Dickson holder.



You would not need to remake the whole bolt. Cut off the projecting male thread, dril and tap for a female thread and loctite in a stud.

Thanks Agroshield, two good points.

1. That is true for the size of the old rusty tool with the shims that was in the original tool holder (I am guessing/from memory it was a 20mm tool). However, I do have a few 25mm tools and for them to be at the correct centre height I will require the slightly longer studs on the toolholders.

The T3 holders can take up to 35mm tools but I will never be able to get them to the correct centre height. Maximum sized tools for me will be 25mm.

2. Very good idea, I like it!

 

[Smouser]

Over the last few weeks, I have slowly cleaned and paint-stripped a few more lathe parts.
As usual, I didn't take enough photos but the photos below will give a rough overview.

The feedbox was pretty dirty, and a previous owner has at some point injected grease into the oil points/nipples
The photos have been taken after the initial wipe down of the worst grime.

I drained all the oil, got some degreaser in there and then 'finished it off' with a can of 3-IN-ONE Multi Purpose Oil Spray to get the inside as clean as I could without having to strip everything out.

I found this at the bottom of the casing

Thus far, I have not been able to establish where it came from/where it should be. All the other little screws inside the feedbox are grub screws so I really don't have a clue about the little screw.

Mostly done with the paint stripping.

We had a bbq and rugby party the previous weekend and as the weather was rainy I once again assembled our gazebo which doubles up as the spray room.

I slowly started hanging some parts while still giving other parts a final clean.

Just as I thought I was done with the cleaning and paint stripping, I found two other sneaky parts in the garage.

It was the footbrake and associated brackets, which are arguably going to be redundant if the lathe is going to be run with a vfd. Nevertheless, it still needed paint.

I have previously cleaned the two drive pulleys but they already had some slight surface rust on them from just sitting in the garage so I decided that I will paint them too.

Primer

 

[Smouser]

I thought the lathe will look very very dark with the paint colour I chose and decided to paint a couple of bits red after I found an old tin of Paragon bright red paint.
I bought the paint in 2014 when I refurbished my first Meddings drill and I also used it to paint my workshop table legs.

Luckily it seemed like the paint was still fine.

The rest of the parts were painted with the Paragon Meddings Grey paint.

Started to remove some of the masking tape

That is how things stand at the moment.
From previous experience, the Paragon paint remains 'soft' for about 7 days but you can handle most parts after about 2 days.
If all goes well, I can slowly start to assemble a few bits over the weekend.

 

[Agroshield]

It was the footbrake and associated brackets, which are arguably going to be redundant if the lathe is going to be run with a VFD.

It is a difficult call to make. The challenge with using electronic braking is it is a fixed time. On some occasions the time will be too long; on others it is too short. You have to find a time that will not waste your time on small stuff that can stop quickly but not cause an overcurrent trip on big stuff with high inertia. And if it does trip, the brake just releases into free spin at a possibly bad time.

The footbrake is like the one in the car - a quick stab with the left foot before a Scandinavian flick, sustained but gentle application to bring an ocean liner to halt or both feet stop-right-now-help-mum.

If you do keep the mechanical brake, it needs a microswitch on it wired into the VFD's normal stop circuit so the 'go' part of the VFD does not try to fight the brake. I think you would also need to disable the electronic brake again so the two do not fight each other.

Do you have the VFD yet? It would be useful to see the manual and work out what possibilities the VFD offers.

I would reassemble the machine as if the brake is going to be used and just remove a vital clevis pin to make it inoperable until you find out what works best for you.

 

[Smouser]

A fair few things to consider, thank you.

@Pawcu already made a plan with how he is going to operate his foot brake.

I don't have the VFD yet. I have not decided which motor to use yet either.

The original is a 6hp '440v only' motor (already in Delta for 440v) which could in theory be run with 230v single phase to 380v VFD from China.

However, I also have a more modern (but still old) 3kW (4hp) motor which will probably be 'man enough' for 99.9% of the things I am likely to do on my lathe.

I do have a bit of time to still consider all my options as there is still a bit of work to do before I eventually want to power the lathe up.

 

[minimutly]

Personally I would use the mechanical brake and forget the vfd regen braking. How often are you in a hurry to stop? Hmm, I guess if your chuck is not screwed on you might use it for threading? Stop disengage reverse?

 

[mtt.tr]

Is the spindle brake on these also a clutch release?

My Harrison is on a vfd the operation is as such:
Lathe running, disengage clutch and spindle brakes mechanically.

The clutch has a micro switch, when disengaged the motor spools down, as it has no load or significant inertia it stops within 3 seconds set via vfd parameter.

Re-engage the clutch vfd spools up the motor.

The reason I did this was because the clutch grabs with little to no finesse, this would be enough to stall the drive.



Small bonus is I no longer have to listen to the motor running or the clutch rattle, ofcourse this might not at all apply to your application.

 

[Smouser]

Is the spindle brake on these also a clutch release?

My Harrison is on a vfd the operation is as such:
Lathe running, disengage clutch and spindle brakes mechanically.

The clutch has a micro switch, when disengaged the motor spools down, as it has no load or significant inertia it stops within 3 seconds set via vfd parameter.

Re-engage the clutch vfd spools up the motor.

The reason I did this was because the clutch grabs with little to no finesse, this would be enough to stall the drive.



Small bonus is I no longer have to listen to the motor running or the clutch rattle, ofcourse this might not at all apply to your application.

No, on the Elliott it is a pure brake.

Basically a metal strip with some brake material on it that goes around the drive pulley. Item 6 is the strap that goes around the pulley.

 

[mtt.tr]

No, on the Elliott it is a pure brake.

Basically a metal strip with some brake material on it that goes around the drive pulley. Item 6 is the strap that goes around the pulley.

View attachment 411847

Oh right.

So you kill the drive then brake?

 

[Smouser]

Oh right.

So you kill the drive then brake?

As far as I understand yes.

 

[Pawcu]

A fair few things to consider, thank you.

@Pawcu already made a plan with how he is going to operate his foot brake.

I don't have the VFD yet. I have not decided which motor to use yet either.

The original is a 6hp '440v only' motor (already in Delta for 440v) which could in theory be run with 230v single phase to 380v VFD from China.

However, I also have a more modern (but still old) 3kW (4hp) motor which will probably be 'man enough' for 99.9% of the things I am likely to do on my lathe.

I do have a bit of time to still consider all my options as there is still a bit of work to do before I eventually want to power the lathe up.

Good job on progress! I still have the mess of the carriage box to do which im not looking forward to... it's caked with grease. People see a zerk fitting and immediately assume it's grease...
Yes I ended up implemented a kill switch with the break as I wanted to keep using the brake for 2 main reasons - safety (in fact I ended up extending the brake pedal the whole length of the lathe) and also because I don't trust the braking resistor of the VFD.
I did have to fiddle around with latching relays and some programmable relays to keep the same levers and functionality sort of but it seems to have worked out so far - though I haven't used the lathe yet xD

 

[Pawcu]

This is the schematic I ended up using. Apologies if the schematic isn't up to standard but I'm not an electrical engineer xD
The 2 signal relays (one for Forward and 1 for Reverse) are programmable relays that I use to send a pulse:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...o.order_list.order_list_main.5.305f1802egYbWm

You can also find them off Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/GRT8-M1-Multifunctional-Functions-12V-240V-50-60Hz/dp/B07QDYZ79J/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=geya+grt8-m1&qid=1691738587&sprefix=Geya+,aps,111&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I am using the 'B' function which just sends a pulse every time it's turned on - I set the pulse for 100ms which is enough to trigger the latching relay.

Reason I went with this setup is because I wanted to keep using the F/R switch of the lathe and to be able to turn it off and on using just that switch. As you can see I also incorporated the emergency stop switch which is where the foot brake limit switch would be connected do - I will also be putting some other emergency stop switches on the lathe back plate for extra safety.

Work in progress:

This is how it ended up looking:

It's a bit tight but it all fits:

I also added some cutouts for ventilation as you can see in the image above.

Hope this helps

 

[Agroshield]

This is the schematic I ended up using

Please, why do you have the input to the VFD on a contactor? Upstream of the VFD it is more usual to use just a switched isolator. The on/off button on the lathe should not kill the power to the VFD. It should be on the control side of the VFD, to enable or disable its output.

There have been discussions in the past about allowing the E-stop to kill the VFD power, but that is not what you are doing here.

You do not stop your car by removing one of the battery leads. You stop it by turning off the ignition key.

 

[Smouser]

View attachment 412073

This is the schematic I ended up using. Apologies if the schematic isn't up to standard but I'm not an electrical engineer xD
The 2 signal relays (one for Forward and 1 for Reverse) are programmable relays that I use to send a pulse:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...o.order_list.order_list_main.5.305f1802egYbWm

You can also find them off Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/GRT8-M1-Multifunctional-Functions-12V-240V-50-60Hz/dp/B07QDYZ79J/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=geya+grt8-m1&qid=1691738587&sprefix=Geya+,aps,111&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I am using the 'B' function which just sends a pulse every time it's turned on - I set the pulse for 100ms which is enough to trigger the latching relay.

Reason I went with this setup is because I wanted to keep using the F/R switch of the lathe and to be able to turn it off and on using just that switch. As you can see I also incorporated the emergency stop switch which is where the foot brake limit switch would be connected do - I will also be putting some other emergency stop switches on the lathe back plate for extra safety.

Work in progress:
View attachment 412079

This is how it ended up looking:
View attachment 412074
View attachment 412075
View attachment 412076

It's a bit tight but it all fits:
View attachment 412077

I also added some cutouts for ventilation as you can see in the image above.

Hope this helps

Thank you very much for explaining your process and making the diagram/schematic.

The photos are also a big help.

I am definitely returning to your post when I need to decide what I am doing with mine. I have a few machines running off vfds but I have never used relays and still need to work out if it is something I want to use or not.

All my other vfds are mounted in steel enclosures on the wall (except for my Elliott TV2 mill), but I like your idea of having the vfd 'integrated' into the machine.

Ps. I like your truck!

 

[Pawcu]

Please, why do you have the input to the VFD on a contactor? Upstream of the VFD it is more usual to use just a switched isolator. The on/off button on the lathe should not kill the power to the VFD. It should be on the control side of the VFD, to enable or disable its output.

There have been discussions in the past about allowing the E-stop to kill the VFD power, but that is not what you are doing here.

You do not stop your car by removing one of the battery leads. You stop it by turning off the ignition key.

I went back and forth multiple times between setting it up like you said and how I did. In the end I ended up going with my approach so I can use the on off switch to turn on the vfd for the motor and the vfd for the coolant pump.
I added an external estop which turns off the output of the vfd like you said and this is connected to the foot brake and in series with some other e stops that I will mount on 2 differ spots on the back splash for extra safety. I think it will still work pretty well but I have yet to start using it to see how it fares. That being said I'm not an expert so I might be wrong in this setup.

Thank you very much for explaining your process and making the diagram/schematic.

The photos are also a big help.

I am definitely returning to your post when I need to decide what I am doing with mine. I have a few machines running off vfds but I have never used relays and still need to work out if it is something I want to use or not.

All my other vfds are mounted in steel enclosures on the wall (except for my Elliott TV2 mill), but I like your idea of having the vfd 'integrated' into the machine.

Ps. I like your truck!

Welcome if you have any questions do let me know. I went with this approach of relays so I utilise the same controls and keep the same functionality. I can turn the spindle on and off using the original lever. Pressing the brake turns it off as well and if the lever is still engaged, letting go of the brake doesn't turn it back on (I did this for safety purposes). I would need to bring the lever in the off position and bring it back on to reset it.
I was really happy to get the vfd to fit.. I think it looks cleaner being incorporated but that's me

And thanks about the truck... It's a 2002 mk5 Hilux... Which as you can see doubles up as a workbench when the other one is all cluttered xD

Did you start assembling anything yet? :-)

 

[Smouser]

I went back and forth multiple times between setting it up like you said and how I did. In the end I ended up going with my approach so I can use the on off switch to turn on the vfd for the motor and the vfd for the coolant pump.
I added an external estop which is connected to the foot brake and in series with some other e stops that I will mount on 2 differ spots on the back splash for extra safety. I think it will still work pretty well but I have yet to start using it to see how it fares. That being said I'm not an expert so I might be wrong in this setup.



Welcome if you have any questions do let me know. I went with this approach of relays so I utilise the same controls and keep the same functionality. I can turn the spindle on and off using the original lever. Pressing the brake turns it off as well and if the lever is still engaged, letting go of the brake doesn't turn it back on (I did this for safety purposes). I would need to bring the lever in the off position and bring it back on to reset it.
I was really happy to get the vfd to fit.. I think it looks cleaner being incorporated but that's me

And thanks about the truck... It's a 2002 mk5 Hilux... Which as you can see doubles up as a workbench when the other one is all cluttered xD

Did you start assembling anything yet? :-)

Thank you. I will get in touch when I need to do my wiring.

On the assembly part - no progress. It was raining today and I did some stupid things earlier this week. Placed some bids on a fairly local auction and won some stuff. I have NO space for anything else.

 

[Pawcu]

Hehe looks like you're going to be busy for the next couple of months? XD
You're going to have a proper workshop with all that
That truck is hauling some heavy stuff it seems!

 

[Smouser]

I have a couple of new questions if you don't mind me asking :P
1) did you remove the cross slide screw and nut by any chance? In the manual it says that there is a screw to adjust the nut backlash from the top but in my case the actual bolt to tighten the nut is actual from the underside
2) Did you happen to remove this piece or have any more pictures of it by any chance as mine is missing
View attachment 410875

Thank you once again and looking forward to seeing more pictures

@Pawcu I finally had a chance to address your questions.

1) Same as mine. Tighten it from underneath.

2) Took a couple of photos for you

Decided to take it off for you to get a few more photos. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Managed to drop the bloody thing on the ground
A small piece broke off the casting. Sigh.

There is a spring in there pushing onto a ball bearing which in turn pushes on a recess on the shaft to keep it in the selected position.

I have started assembling the lathe, I will probably make a quick post on the progress tomorrow.

 

[Pawcu]

@Pawcu I finally had a chance to address your questions.

1) Same as mine. Tighten it from underneath.

2) Took a couple of photos for you

View attachment 413066

View attachment 413067

Decided to take it off for you to get a few more photos. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Managed to drop the bloody thing on the ground
A small piece broke off the casting. Sigh.

View attachment 413071

There is a spring in there pushing onto a ball bearing which in turn pushes on a recess on the shaft to keep it in the selected position.
View attachment 413068

View attachment 413069

View attachment 413070

I have started assembling the lathe, I will probably make a quick post on the progress tomorrow.

Thanks for checking for me - I'm really sorry for the part falling off and breaking Will you be trying to fix it?
That being said thanks for the pics - they really help and I have an idea how I can machine a new part for mine.
Thank you once again I really appreciate it!
Looking forward to the assembly pics