EV road tax

[GRW]

Yea but once consumption drops they'll simply increase the daily standing charge to compensate I would think.

Only real solution is probably off grid...but then they can simply tax solar panels by the sqm...if historically they can tax windows I'm pretty sure they can justify taxing anything!

Not just to compensate. By making energy (& water) much more expensive pro-rata - you have virtually total control over a population.
No ordinary person will be going very far or doing anything much outside of their work or home..... because they simply will not be able to afford to do so.

It was a proven system of control by the "Haves" over the "Have nots" for thousands of years.

I know lots think stuff like this is the ravings of a Tinfoil Hat wearing loony - but when you look at all the small pieces of the Jigsaw, all the policies and tech and the mechanisms for surveillance & control that have crept into place over the last (say) 20-years.......

Our own Govts (of whatever colour tie) are inexorably driving & herding the population into an electronic & financially managed "virtual corral" where our potential to use Resources is not "encouraged" but "forced".

The ones able to freely roam (& consume) outside the confines of these virtual fences.... will be the Wealthy & Powerful Elite, and their Governnent & Enforcement Minions.

The writing is on the wall.

"Hunger Games UK" anyone? Many will scoff - but its a variation of a dystopian future that the evidence says is far from an impossible reality - and not too distant a reality either.

Ho ho ho!

 

[premmington]

Yea but once consumption drops they'll simply increase the daily standing charge to compensate I would think.

Only real solution is probably off grid...but then they can simply tax solar panels by the sqm...if historically they can tax windows I'm pretty sure they can justify taxing anything!

Thats true - they taxed windows - there are old houses with bricked up windows - I seen them with my own eyes.

Window tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Robotstar5]

Thats true - they taxed windows - there are old houses with bricked up windows - I seen them with my own eyes.

They also painted windows on houses to save on taxes, there is an old house not too far from me with one.

 

[premmington]

They also painted windows on houses to save on taxes, there is an old house not too far from me with one.

Not seen that....

Taxing light - that is bad - when you really think about it...

 

[pressbrake1]

Doesn't change it for older vehicles by the looks of it. The 110 will still be £300 odd and the RR north of £600 .

Need to get the 6x6 running again as least that's tax exempt and MOT exempt now.

Paying over £100 a year for a motorcycle really give me the ache

 

[Smallfry]

They used to use allegiance to the crown, religion, ghost stories, fear of the dark, myths and legends to control the masses.

Now that doesn't work, as science has disproved most of it, they have to try something else.

 

[lchris21]

Sounds familiar, like what happened with the push to get diesel cars, once ownership went up the price of diesel went from a cheap, mainly commercial use fuel to been more expensive than petrol.

...they can prise the keys of my diesel out of my cold dead hands ................recently borrowed the missus Mk8 Golf GTD. This was showing after a spin in full eco mode on a 100mile round trip, its 200bhp and a hoot to drive in any mode and makes me smile in "sport" mode....but can be frugal at the same time....plus only takes 3mins from empty to full charge

 

[prepman]

Already new houses have to have separate electricity metering installed for the EV charging - which can only mean one thing (the intention to charge additional rates/tax/duty on electricity being used as vehicle fuel).

Interesting....as suspected as with all taxes the quota needs to be maintained, similar to tobacco tax revenues falling? I remember the days when it was dirt cheap (comparatively) to switch to diesel cars. The Ministry of Loopholes plugged that by making diesel more expensive than petrol.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

IMO if people can afford the price of a new EV (£30,000+), and massive depreciation, then paying road tax is nothing by comparison.

 

[GRW]

IMO if people can afford the price of a new EV (£30,000+), and massive depreciation, then paying road tax is nothing by comparison.

I suspect the very hefty depreciation wasn't anticipated, & neither was the VED, neither was the (no doubt fully intended from day 1) moves to make electric "fuel" subject to the kind of costs & taxation of other road fuels.

Very early EV adopters may have done alright with the overall costs of running an EV with cheap home charging, tax breaks & subsidised purchase.... but now (let alone in a year or 2)?

I can see that the push to the EV is going to end up costing John Q Taxpayer billions of £ (whether they own one or not).

 

[Pete.]

being a hesitant EV driver must half or quarter the usable range!

EV's have their best range when tottering around. They don't have the parasitic losses of idling engines so the energy is all used to overcome inertia and wind resistance.

You can turn the regen braking on and off/up and down on most of them so for instance with the Toyota Proace EV van it'll always have slight electrical braking but it's not pronounced, it kinda mimics over-run on a diesel. If you invoke the regen braking button the pedal works more like a combined throttle and brake and you really feel the braking effect so you only have to touch the brake really if you're coming to a stop. Out on the open road you're better off using it in normal mode but around town increasing the regen adds to your range and once you're used to it lets you hold station in traffic very well.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

I suspect the very hefty depreciation wasn't anticipated, & neither was the VED, neither was the (no doubt fully intended from day 1) moves to make electric "fuel" subject to the kind of costs & taxation of other road fuels.

Very early EV adopters may have done alright with the overall costs of running an EV with cheap home charging, tax breaks & subsidised purchase.... but now (let alone in a year or 2)?

I can see that the push to the EV is going to end up costing John Q Taxpayer billions of £ (whether they own one or not).

Don't forget EV insurance is more expensive - people report double or even more !

 

[Colin Barron]

IMO if people can afford the price of a new EV (£30,000+), and massive depreciation, then paying road tax is nothing by comparison.

That is spot on but we encourage people to pay vast amounts of vat and depreciation on items that go from new to scrap in under 15 years. The system needs people to rent houses, pay very little money into pensions, buy cheap crap that needs replacing on a regular basis otherwise people would be able to afford to retire before they are worn out.

 

[GRW]

Don't forget EV insurance is more expensive - people report double or even more !

Didn't know that (though I had heard that EV Insurance was rising more rapidly than ICE).
I suspect Home Insurers may (are?) Liable to raise premiums (or exclude cover for certain "events"?) and start asking people to declare if they have an EV & Charger (& if so, where car is parked, where charger is located etc etc) & adjust cover & premiums accordingly (I.e. Up).

Also just as Insurer's will exclude say flood damage on a home built on a flood plain - you can see similar being the case for businesses like Car Parks, Ferry Co's and so on - from incidents of fire & smoke damage resulting from EV's.
(Govts & Agencies may be able to suppress the cause of incidents to nor alarm a buying public.... but Insurance Co's and Actuaries are only concerned with ensuring a profit).

 

[bricol]

I think some need to switch off the internet and go have a nice cup of tea

My dad used to quote "None dare call in conspiracy", a book by Gary Allen. Published in 1971, it was full of the same sort of hog-wash as gets spouted about nowadays. The end of the US, the world, etc was just about nigh, the whole thing was a plot by the rich in power to enslave everyone else. The book was supposed claimed to be subversive, would never be sold in the local book shop, or reviewed in public, as world governments would use their power to destroy it . . .

"They", the great powerful ones, obviously missed it as you can buy it on Amazon and it has thousands of reviews from people who need to get a little bit more and mix with somewhat saner people

I found it the other day when clearing out a bookcase at my mum's - looks like it might raise a few quid on ebay as an original copy - I'll have to fish it out of the rubbish where I slung it first though

 

[GRW]

I think some need to switch off the internet and go have a nice cup of tea

My dad used to quote "None dare call in conspiracy", a book by Gary Allen. Published in 1971, it was full of the same sort of hog-wash as gets spouted about nowadays. The end of the US, the world, etc was just about nigh, the whole thing was a plot by the rich in power to enslave everyone else. The book was supposed claimed to be subversive, would never be sold in the local book shop, or reviewed in public, as world governments would use their power to destroy it . . .

"They", the great powerful ones, obviously missed it as you can buy it on Amazon and it has thousands of reviews from people who need to get a little bit more and mix with somewhat saner people

I found it the other day when clearing out a bookcase at my mum's - looks like it might raise a few quid on ebay as an original copy - I'll have to fish it out of the rubbish where I slung it first though

It was only a matter of time (I mentioned the scoffing "you're a loony" expectation a few posts back).
You're the winner!

I'd quite possibly have been of similar mind a few years ago.
However, the general direction of so many small things, policies, technology use & what they facilitate etc do suggest that things are being steered in a direction that is not positive for the future freedoms & opportunity of the common man. I'm more concerned for my children's future than my own - the trend is far from inspiring.

Be bullish, confident and assured that its all utter rubbish.

I hope you're right.... but I'm far from sure that you are.

 

[Morrisman]

Your quote

"The only realistic way in future to save money - will be to quite simply use a lot less."

What a perfect simple solution...

That's how I get by, £50 a month electric (and about the same for lpg in winter) A guy I know through bike nights reckons his utilities are over a grand a month in winter.

Thats true - they taxed windows - there are old houses with bricked up windows - I seen them with my own eyes.

Window tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And nowadays they build houses with faux bricked up windows.....

 

[DAPPH]

Same road and space but ev's are rolling roadblocks, quarter of normal speed and driven a 10th as well because they are too preoccupied on their battery range. The funny thing is they brake and waste energy when its safe to continue moving. In london, being a hesitant EV driver must half or quarter the usable range!

I'd suggest all cars should be taxed the same on the H band, wouldnt bother me as thats what Im paying already.

You need to revisit EV's and get up to speed wrt. regenerative braking and slowing with brakes to a stop . I rarely brake intentionally but do give a quick couple of taps on the brake pedal to try and let the guy following who is usually trying to get into the boot know that I'm slowing , when the regen braking takes place , which is many times on a motorway and a heavy traffic urban run of 25 miles .

 

[DAPPH]

The signs are clear in any case that the days of subsidised EV motoring are limited. The holiday is ending.
EV Road tax (VED, whatever) coming in 2025.
Already new houses have to have separate electricity metering installed for the EV charging - which can only mean one thing (the intention to charge additional rates/tax/duty on electricity being used as vehicle fuel).
Sure as eggs are eggs they'll have the plan to require all homes EV charging to have EV metering - its just a matter of time.
The carrots have been dangled to attract the punter..... now they are tee-ing up the sucker-punch where they grab back all the money & more. It's just a matter of when, not if.

Cynical? Moi? Not really, just a sensible total distrust of the Political Class & the Civil Service & their motivation, based on history & experience.

I've no problems paying to have the privileges' of using an electric car, however it is levied At least you'll be able to breath easier without the noxious ICE fumes & pollution.

 

[Kram]

You need to revisit EV's and get up to speed wrt. regenerative braking and slowing with brakes to a stop . I rarely brake intentionally but do give a quick couple of taps on the brake pedal to try and let the guy following who is usually trying to get into the boot know that I'm slowing , when the regen braking takes place , which is many times on a motorway and a heavy traffic urban run of 25 miles .

I fully understand how it works. It is still far more efficient to keep moving than to constantly stop and start.

When approaching a roundabout, for example on the A217 stretch from M25 Leatherhead towards Banstead, which is all 40mph ASL cameras.
I can see the roundabout is clear and will often leave cruise control active at 40mph, given clear road infront. Some of the roundabouts I briefely pause then resume due to it being a sharper bend.

However every EV infront will slow right down to 10mph or stop regardless of the roundabout being absolutely clear. It is a massive PITA.
I do not sit on a cars bumper particually unpredicatable EV's but when they seem incapable or unwilling to make progress yet remain in the right hand lane it is extremely irritating.