Fitting and configuring BLTouch

[ukracer]

I have the babysteps feature in klipper, but when the print is done or cancelled, it pops up a dialog asking if I want to save it to permanent config too, that's how I dial my z offset in finally after getting it close with setups then just final tune it doing a few test prints. The marlin version is just for the duration of that print and never saved between firmware restarts so its more for saving a failing print than tuning the machine.

If your still using the creality stock firmware from earlier in the thread, you just have to go in and enable babysteps mid print to use it, from their instructions its in the firmware already:-

To use the babystep Z feature in your Ender 3, all you need to do is to start the printing process first, navigate to the Tune section through the LCD panel, and then activate the babystep Z option.

Following these steps will take you to the babystep Z menu, where you will be able to adjust the Z-axis offset value in real-time by turning the knob and see the changes you have made on the LCD panel, similar to how you would configure the Z offset value regularly with the probe offset wizard.

I hope I am.not confusing everyone.

I used the example of baby stepping as I know it can be turned on and of in firmware. There might be something else a new user of a secondhand printers wants activating/adjusting values / turning off. BUT not knowing the.the firmware values and not having original config files, they might be reluctant to mess up what is working well.
I just can't believe no one has software than can reverse engineer a binary firmware.... I mean the printer understands the firmware. Lol

 

[ukracer]

I have the babysteps feature in klipper, but when the print is done or cancelled, it pops up a dialog asking if I want to save it to permanent config too, that's how I dial my z offset in finally after getting it close with setups then just final tune it doing a few test prints. The marlin version is just for the duration of that print and never saved between firmware restarts so its more for saving a failing print than tuning the machine.

That's interesting. That's exactly what my marlin version on my older ender 3 does. You can get baby steps to dial in a perfect layer but it does not save it.
(I have read you can turn the option on an off in marlin.)

If your still using the creality stock firmware from earlier in the thread, you just have to go in and enable babysteps mid print to use it, from their instructions its in the firmware already:-

It might be available in the stock firmware but it's not called baby steps or baby stepping. There is a z offset in the time section though. I haven't really had time to concentrate on checking.
I was more running several prints at different temps as the layers just don't bond.

To use the babystep Z feature in your Ender 3, all you need to do is to start the printing process first, navigate to the Tune section through the LCD panel, and then activate the babystep Z option.

That's how it works in my older ender 3.

Following these steps will take you to the babystep Z menu, where you will be able to adjust the Z-axis offset value in real-time by turning the knob and see the changes you have made on the LCD panel, similar to how you would configure the Z offset value regularly with the probe offset wizard.

Yep it works great but it never saves....hence I can't just set the preheat PLA . Set it to.print and leave it.

 

[ukracer]

Few more tests today. Not too many at once as I really want to get my head around exactly whats going on. SO just to defy me its got a mind of its own...lol Or the Gcode is overriding the "Tune" settings.

I started the print off and upped the Nozzle to 220 and the fan to 10%. But a short while later I noticed it had dropped to 200 again PLUS the fan speed had changed. to33% I then check a few minutes later and fan speed was now 67% so gad knows whats going on.

One thing I have confirmed is the Baby steps are not in the tune menu. Just the Zoffset is in there.

 

[jmp49]

Open the gcode you put in the printer in wordpad or something, you'll see if the slicer is commanding the changes or the firmware. My money's on the slicer as the layer height changes.
You are looking for M104's for the temp eg:
M104 S243 ; set final nozzle temp

Fan speed is set by M106, same deal, if its in the gcode, the slicer is putting it there and the printer is just doing what its told.
I'm not sure its called babysteps in the menu every time, mine is named something else, but it does the same thing, allows you to tune the z height mid print to save a failing print. They're all just changing the z offset whatever they are called.
The klipper people just thought "hey, that could be handy if we let the user save it" as a bonus. The important bit of info is that the creality say their version discards it after a print. So if you want to set it up properly to run from switch on unattended you have to do it via tuning the probe offset, not use babysteps, as per the instructions on their site.
I've seen so many mad default slicer configs, and things getting in the way doing things "intelligently" without asking at this stage, I wonder if you use a slicer not from your printer's make, if the default are intentionally set up to screw with people or slow the compettitions printers down.
Eg ultimaker runs great for ultimaker printers, prusa slicer default are really slow for my ender5 etc.

 

[ukracer]

Open the gcode you put in the printer in wordpad or something, you'll see if the slicer is commanding the changes or the firmware. My money's on the slicer as the layer height changes.
You are looking for M104's for the temp eg:
M104 S243 ; set final nozzle temp

Fan speed is set by M106, same deal, if its in the gcode, the slicer is putting it there and the printer is just doing what its told.
I'm not sure its called babysteps in the menu every time, mine is named something else, but it does the same thing, allows you to tune the z height mid print to save a failing print. They're all just changing the z offset whatever they are called.
The klipper people just thought "hey, that could be handy if we let the user save it" as a bonus. The important bit of info is that the creality say their version discards it after a print. So if you want to set it up properly to run from switch on unattended you have to do it via tuning the probe offset, not use babysteps, as per the instructions on their site.
I've seen so many mad default slicer configs, and things getting in the way doing things "intelligently" without asking at this stage, I wonder if you use a slicer not from your printer's make, if the default are intentionally set up to screw with people or slow the compettitions printers down.
Eg ultimaker runs great for ultimaker printers, prusa slicer default are really slow for my ender5 etc.

Lots of good comnents.

Main thing is if it's the Gcode altering temps and fan speed then that can't be what's affecting the layer bonding. As it will be identical as I am using the same file.

 

[jmp49]

Have you also tried printing at a higher percentage of flow rate on the filament? If the extrusion steps for the extruder are not quite high enough in the firmware, it can still sort of print, but the bonding can be terrible and its almost like a sponge and really fragile when you inspect it.
You can also do it the proper way by measuring the filament actually consumed when you issue a extrusion command for a definite length, then tune the e-steps in the firmware so its right and when you set 100% extrusion, you get the commanded value. Page running through it (for marlin).

Extruder Calibration

Ellis’ Print Tuning Guide

ellis3dp.com

 

[jmp49]

And today's case in point, running at 107% flowrate because I made a change to the hotend that lets it flow faster and just tuning it in after faffing about resetting my z offset because I had it in bits. Its going well now, but the sock has fell off mid print so maybe not for that much longer

 

[ukracer]

And today's case in point, running at 107% flowrate because I made a change to the hotend that lets it flow faster and just tuning it in after faffing about resetting my z offset because I had it in bits. Its going well now, but the sock has fell off mid print so maybe not for that much longer
View attachment 467259

I walked it up to 40% a few prints back and nothing changed. I would have expected some clicking from the extruder but nothing. Lol

 

[ukracer]

Have you also tried printing at a higher percentage of flow rate on the filament? If the extrusion steps for the extruder are not quite high enough in the firmware, it can still sort of print, but the bonding can be terrible and its almost like a sponge and really fragile when you inspect it.
You can also do it the proper way by measuring the filament actually consumed when you issue a extrusion command for a definite length, then tune the e-steps in the firmware so its right and when you set 100% extrusion, you get the commanded value. Page running through it (for marlin).

Extruder Calibration

Ellis’ Print Tuning Guide

ellis3dp.com

It's not far away about 96mm came out when I chose movement and did 10 x 10mm steps.
So potentially needs upping.

I did feel the drive was damaging the filament and expected a low step count, but that was more a gut feeling.
Anyway I replaced the nozzle with a new 0.4 one.

Also dropped the z height to 3.1 from 2.6.
That actually seemed to show bed height a little high on the left, that was not obvious. But I thought BL touch was supposed to allow for that..?

It then printed slightly better but not a lot.

It's interesting how the gcode in the sliced code overrides your tuned settings
So will look at that as well.

 

[ukracer]

Its becoming more and more appealing to get an X1c now. It used to be fun tinkering and messing but not being in control from the start makes it hard.

I found an ender 3 max printer in cura so I used that. all I altered was the nozzle to 220 instead of 200. Now it keeps trying to level the bed every print BUT after that is kills the printer and reset does not work either.


This is the Gcode for starting in cura. I have not altered it at all.

"

; Ender 3 Max Custom Start G-code

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G28 ; Home all axes

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X0.1 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to start position

G1 X0.1 Y200.0 Z0.3 F1500.0 E15 ; Draw the first line

G1 X0.4 Y200.0 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to side a little

G1 X0.4 Y20 Z0.3 F1500.0 E30 ; Draw the second line

G29 Recall mesh

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X5 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move over to prevent blob squish"




You have to start all over again and its a vicious circle.

Here's what it says

 

[jmp49]

I think there's some copypasta failing here... Is this line literally written like this with no extra characters?

G29 Recall mesh

 

[jmp49]

To be clear, there's a ; missing which makes the recall mesh after it a comment on the G29 command. But... Replace it with a 'M420 S1" in the startup code. ABL has already been disabled by the G28 earlier, then M420 will turn it back on and tell the printer to recall the abl bed mesh stored in the eprom instead of re-probing it.

To force a re-probe of the bed, in future (or the first time if you havent done it already) you have to do a g29, then a m500 once its probed to save the values.

Or leave the g29 in there, and be ok with it taking a minute to probe the bed before it starts printing.

For the G1's just before the g29 it prints two 180mm lines along the Y axis at x=0.1 and x=0.4 positions to wipe the nozzle and make sure its extruding properly. If it draws two lines and then crashes and restarts, I'd try putting the missing ; back between the G29 and the recall mesh as a test. Then take it out and replace it with the M420 S1 once you know its that. Or leave the fixed G29 line in, and have it probe at startup every time, at least that way the bed level would be accurate at that instant in time, although its a bit of a timewaste.

 

[ukracer]

I'll save you time, there's a ; missing which makes the recall mesh a comment. But... Replace it with a 'M420 S1" in the startup code. ABL has already been disabled by the G28 earlier, then M420 will turn it back on and tell the printer to recall the abl bed mesh stored in the eprom instead of re-probing it.

To force a re-probe of the bed, in future (or the first time if you havent done it already) you have to do a g29, then a m500 once its probed to save the values.

So just replace

G29 Recall mesh

With

M420 S1

 

[jmp49]

Note none of this actually appears to be the printer hardware at fault, more a issue with cura and dodgy 3rd party firmware so far...

 

[jmp49]

So just replace

G29 Recall mesh

With

M420 S1

Yep, I edited my comment abou tthe G29 to make it clearer, but yes, either replace "G29 Recall mesh" with "M420 S1" or replace it with "G29 ; Recall mesh" to have it probe then start printing to test if its the recall mesh comment causing the crash.

 

[jmp49]

What version of cura is it btw? this is Cura v5.5.0's startup gcode profile for the ender3 max. Maybe the G29 and no ; is a bug in your version's profile, but maybe it sneaked in at some point enabling ABL. I'd test what effect it had on marlin but my printerbot is in bits having the 2nd and 3rd extruder wiring added, and the ender is 8 hours into a huge print, and I dont want to pause it and find out yes it crashes things



; Ender 3 Max Custom Start G-code

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G28 ; Home all axes

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X0.1 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to start position

G1 X0.1 Y200.0 Z0.3 F1500.0 E15 ; Draw the first line

G1 X0.4 Y200.0 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to side a little

G1 X0.4 Y20 Z0.3 F1500.0 E30 ; Draw the second line

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X5 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move over to prevent blob squish

 

[ukracer]

What version of cura is it btw? this is Cura v5.5.0's startup gcode profile for the ender3 max. Maybe the G29 and no ; is a bug in your version's profile, but maybe it sneaked in at some point enabling ABL. I'd test what effect it had on marlin but my printerbot is in bits having the 2nd and 3rd extruder wiring added, and the ender is 8 hours into a huge print, and I dont want to pause it and find out yes it crashes things



; Ender 3 Max Custom Start G-code

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G28 ; Home all axes

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X0.1 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to start position

G1 X0.1 Y200.0 Z0.3 F1500.0 E15 ; Draw the first line

G1 X0.4 Y200.0 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to side a little

G1 X0.4 Y20 Z0.3 F1500.0 E30 ; Draw the second line

G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder

G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed

G1 X5 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move over to prevent blob squish

 

[Prajna]

Normally, I believe, you do a bed level and save that once and then you don't need to level again unless you're having problems that may be due to the bed no longer being level. One of the problems with the current KE firmware is that people adjust their Z offset but when you do an ABL the printer resets the Z offset and they have to make adjustments all over again. It is crazy and unnecessary to ABL for every print. Also, I would have thought that you want to recall mesh before anything else, like the nozzle wipe, otherwise that is happening on an unlevelled bed. But I'm new to all this too

 

[ukracer]

Yep, I edited my comment abou tthe G29 to make it clearer, but yes, either replace "G29 Recall mesh" with "M420 S1" or replace it with "G29 ; Recall mesh" to have it probe then start printing to test if its the recall mesh comment causing the crash.

Just.edited the old Gcode file in Notepad ++ with exactly what you suggested.
All I did was hit print from TL and off it went. I had the wife set fire to the butter so I did not see exactly what it did but it's printing now and the one thing I clarified was when you adjust the Z offset in tune it does save it if you save settings.

I turned of the printer several times and it's held the Z offset.

As I have already increased the print temp to 220 using cura I will see if the layers are bonding.

 

[jmp49]

Prajna makes a good point there, you probably want to recall the bed mesh before doing the nozzle wipe in case the bed is that drunk that the nozzle contacts before the abl fixes it, so best move the M420 S1 to right after the G28 line.
Yeah its crazy to do abl every print, but people do this out in the wild (not me though, I have a bed level recall macro). I also set the bed to final temperature before doing the G28 in case the heat expansion changes things :
From my startup (klipper so different syntax, and I can name the bed mesh profiles and load by name but same idea as retrieving it from eprom in marlin)

M140 S100 ; set final bed temp
M190 S100 ; wait for bed temp to stabilize
G28 ; home all axis
BED_MESH_PROFILE LOAD=default