Flypress

[CRB]

Just wondered if I could get a bit of general guidance regarding tooling namely the bolster shank. Is there a general type of length on the shank? This plate on this ram is stuck in there solid, so I'm drilling through the approximate centre of the shank to try and get a bolt in there to push it out. I'm pretty much drilling blind with regards to how long this shank may be though, so trying to get a rough idea of what an approximate length of the bolster shank may be. Wanting to minimise the possibility of drilling through into the rams bore if it's bottomed out in there.

?Is it the part which looks like a bowler hat you need off the lower end of the ram? I have had a look for a nomenclature of a flypress, but no joy.

Putting it all back together and then using screws to push it off against the machine, would allow you to press from more places than the centre.

I suppose heating or freezing is not an option.

 

[MattF]

The piece/tool which goes into the end of the ram is the problem part, so it's a case of pulling it out of the ram somehow. There's the round shaft/shank which goes into the hole in the ram, and it's that part which I'm drilling through at the moment. Looks like they've probably used this as a bearing/bush press on auto gear, so there's just a flat plate on the end of that shaft. Not sure if that plate has distorted slighty and wedged tightly into the ram bore, or whether they may have used a slightly over length shaft and ended up upsetting that shaft in the ram bore, hence wedging that in the bore. Not got any gear for heating it currently. Freezing would be an option though, (once Gert's in bed, obviously ).


Not sure whether that description has helped or just made it even more confusing? I'll take a photo or two when I go back out there.

Edit: You can see the stuck part in this photo:

The square plate at the top, (in that photo), of the ram, above the bolt.

 

[Paul.]

With the press assembled clamp a piece of heavy plate or channel to the bed bring the tool down to the plate and weld it together, then use the power of the press on the upstroke to pull it out, be careful not to shear the bolts holding the screw to the ram, that joint is designed for pushing not pulling, it will probably have a burr on the top end of the tool, when making tools always put a good chamfer on the end, they are usually 1" dia, mine is 1/1/2" with a reducing sleeve inside, makes it much easier to change the tools.

 

[MattF]

You were spot on about it being 1" diameter Paul. Did consider trying a method like that, but decided against it for the reason you mention, in that it would be stressing parts against their design. Ended up continuing with the drilling, and just checking the hole every 1/4" or so once I got past the depth of the securing bolt. Ended up having to drill about 2-1/2" in depth. Not exactly the quickest of processes using a breast drill for a 8mm hole, but got there eventually. Not enough clearance to do it on the bench drill, and there's no way I was risking the electric drill catching with drilling down in the vice. That'd have my wrist done in no short order. Got it drilled through, tapped the first inch or so of the hole and then popped a length of rod in the hole, which was just of length to allow a bolt to be started in the threaded portion without fouling it, but long enough to press against the bottom of the hole. When I ran out of travel on the bolt, kept adding a bit of scrap rod to take up the slack underneath the bolt. The obligatory photo's. During removal:

The bolster once out:

The respective bits:

 

[MattF]

On a slight aside, which is normally referred to as the bolster; the ram tool or the plate/tool on the bed? I've always taken it as being the ram tool, but started myself off wondering now if I have it **** about face?

 

[CRB]

(I would have said to press it off by bolting a plate onto the opposite end, but TIGPauls' idea gets my vote.) Typed that line last night but did not post for some reason.

The few breakdowns I did see say that the bolster is the fixed part onto which the ram works.

Fine shot at 'approximately' the centre MattF. ?How far are you out? I know you have measured it and kept quiet.

 

[MattF]

(I would have said to press it off by bolting a plate onto the opposite end, but TIGPauls' idea gets my vote.) Typed that line last night but did not post for some reason.

I'm hoping this won't now be an issue I have to tackle again. Only myself to blame if I do. I'd likely go with that method if I did though. This way took ages, and would be no good on something which couldn't suffer or take a hole as readily.

The few breakdowns I did see say that the bolster is the fixed part onto which the ram works.

Thought that might be the case. It struck me as appearing odd when I was reading through my own post. I've always assumed bolster as in chisel, as in the tool being the bolster, but English defines bolster as being a support, which would make the bottom plate/piece the obvious choice. I'll make sure to revise my terminology. Is the ram tool just referred to as the tool, in those breakdowns you've seen, or something else?

Fine shot at 'approximately' the centre MattF. ?How far are you out? I know you have measured it and kept quiet.

Only a smidgeon. Must admit, I was chuffed with how well I kept it on line, to say it was all eyeball work and hand power on the drilling part. I was expecting that hole in the other end to be far less central than it was. The approximate centre was just gauged by eye with the ruler across the ram corners. The flatted corners front and back made that a fairly broad guess though.

You can tell how firmly that shank was in there with the upset end on that piece of smooth rod too. That was straight as a die when it first went in there. Had to lean on the spanner for the first couple of turns.

 

[Spark plug]

Looking good there Matt, congratulations getting the tool out , job well done.

You'll be haveing fly pressing fun in no time .

 

[CRB]

Thought that might be the case. It struck me as appearing odd when I was reading through my own post. I've always assumed bolster as in chisel, as in the tool being the bolster, but English defines bolster as being a support, which would make the bottom plate/piece the obvious choice. I'll make sure to revise my terminology. Is the ram tool just referred to as the tool, in those breakdowns you've seen, or something else?

According to the pictures I found, the ram is the sliding part which holds the tool, and is acted on by the screw.

I have never understood the use of bolster in relation to masonary chisels, but thought it was possibly an abbreviated form of 'bolstered' meaning supported/strengthened. One of the American videos I saw called the lower block a pillow, which leads to more confusion.

?Is there anyway for air to escape when installing a tool, or for that matter, entering while removing one? Nothing worse than fighting against a vacuum.

 

[MattF]

Looking good there Matt, congratulations getting the tool out , job well done.

You'll be haveing fly pressing fun in no time .

Cheers. Knowing what I'm usually like though, once I get it all back together I'll likely not be able to find owt to do with it for ages. Always the same. You spend ages thinking: I'd literally kill for [insert whatever tool/machine here] at this moment in time, and then when you've got it, nowt ever seems to require it.

According to the pictures I found, the ram is the sliding part which holds the tool, and is acted on by the screw.

So the tool is just referred to as a tool then? I'm gonna have to think of an even more bland name for it, to confuse everyone in future.

I have never understood the use of bolster in relation to masonary chisels, but thought it was possibly an abbreviated form of 'bolstered' meaning supported/strengthened. One of the American videos I saw called the lower block a pillow, which leads to more confusion.

Must admit, I'd never given the bolster chisel thing a second thought until reading what I was writing in this thread, and then the contrary nature of using it struck me. When you think about it, it's amazing how you can say/write something without giving it a second thought in general for years, and then one day just think: "that seems wrong".

?Is there anyway for air to escape when installing a tool, or for that matter, entering while removing one? Nothing worse than fighting against a vacuum.

Nope. Once it gets past the retaining bolt hole, there's no outlet/inlet for air. I think I might run a fine groove down the shanks of any future tools I use with a triangular file, from the top of the shank to the bolt divot, to allow for that. The other option would be to just pop a small diamater hole through the back of the ram into the top of that bore. Like you say, that could be a bit of a cow if not with a snug fit shank.

 

[Spark plug]

The tools I got with mine have a flat along the part that fits into the "ram", this means the locking screw has some ware to press against and it lets the air in and out.

 

[CRB]

When you think about it, it's amazing how you can say/write something without giving it a second thought in general for years, and then one day just think: "that seems wrong".

Like your flypress, cheap at half the price.

Well, no $h1t Sherlock

 

[Paul.]

Tools are not that close a fit that you have to worry about air escaping, a small flat on the spigot for location as above is a fairly usual way of doing things, I often put 2 on at 90deg to each other so that that you can turn the tool for awkward jobs.

 

[CRB]

The tools I got with mine have a flat along the part that fits into the "ram", this means the locking screw has some ware to press against and it lets the air in and out.

The one MattF has removed was probably homemade, so would certainly be improved by the 'addition' of a flat for the dual purpose of a land for the fixing screw and air movement.

?Are you following me TIGPaul?

 

[MattF]

Cheers. I'll make sure to put a flat on any ones I might make in future. Wasn't sure what, if any, method was used in general.

Next task with this is a bit of file time just to tidy the ram up a bit at the bottom end, (that damage has created a few burrs on the bottom of the sliding faces which need removing too), and then it should be getting reassembled.

 

[Screwdriver]

Well I just grabbed one of these:

...and this thread popped up when I did a search trying to work out wtf to do with it!

S.

 

[Maker]

I often put 2 on at 90deg to each other so that that you can turn the tool for awkward jobs.

I was just about to suggest that, similar to a Weldon shank.

 

[MattF]

...when I did a search trying to work out wtf to do with it!

Sounds like one of either: "It seemed a good idea at the time", else the: "Sod that, I'm having it at that price regardless of whether I've got a use for it or not", purchases. Is that an Edwards? Post some photo's when you get that set up. Looks like that's in tidy nick. Have you got the weights with it too?

 

[Screwdriver]

It was too cheap and too close. There is one ball weight, no tooling. But it's virtually mint and the table is built like a bridge.

In all seriousness it's for my bike workshop. Bound to come in handy.

 

[Maker]

In all seriousness it's for my bike workshop. Bound to come in handy.

It would make a nice headset and bottom bracket press.