Got me a lathe!

[DanClarke]

Well, The motor came back from being perverted converted from "WYE" to Delta.
It's a real struggle for an old fella like me to reinstall it in the cabinet. A good job I saw the Osteopath this morning I think.
Anyway, it's in and it runs (very quietly) on the VFD and no blue-smoke escaped in the process.
The only issue is that it has no "guts" at the final-drive end and I can easily stop the spindle with the palm of my hand on the chuck, or if I engage either of the auto-feeds.
Next step will be to take the T-Link belt off to see what condition it is in and whether removing any links is likely to help at all.

I noticed the bearings that the shaft of the pulley cone and Motor V-belt on the hangar got warm/hot pretty quickly, but I have no reference for what is a normal temperature for these bearings.

Here it is running anyway.

 

[Agroshield]

The only issue is that it has no "guts" at the final-drive end and I can easily stop the spindle with the palm of my hand on the chuck

When you do this, does the motor itself stall or is something slipping elsewhere in the drivetrain?

You could remove the motor drive belt, switch it on and apply a piece of timber to the motor pulley. If the timber emits blue smoke and fails to stop the motor, it's a mechanical problem, not a motor problem.

If you had a clamp meter, put it on one of the phase wires and see how much the current increases when you stop the spindle.

 

[Seadog]

Well, The motor came back from being perverted converted from "WYE" to Delta.
It's a real struggle for an old fella like me to reinstall it in the cabinet. A good job I saw the Osteopath this morning I think.
Anyway, it's in and it runs (very quietly) on the VFD and no blue-smoke escaped in the process.
The only issue is that it has no "guts" at the final-drive end and I can easily stop the spindle with the palm of my hand on the chuck, or if I engage either of the auto-feeds.
Next step will be to take the T-Link belt off to see what condition it is in and whether removing any links is likely to help at all.

I noticed the bearings that the shaft of the pulley cone and Motor V-belt on the hangar got warm/hot pretty quickly, but I have no reference for what is a normal temperature for these bearings.

Here it is running anyway.

That's very noisy. Replace the bearings. They're in tge cabinet, so out of sight, out of mind. Boxford pulleys are normally held with two grub screws, one above the other. The intermediate shaft has plain bushes with an oil reservoir in the pulley. You'll possibly find a residue of casting sand if you dig around (I did).

 

[DanClarke]

That's very noisy. Replace the bearings. They're in tge cabinet, so out of sight, out of mind. Boxford pulleys are normally held with two grub screws, one above the other. The intermediate shaft has plain bushes with an oil reservoir in the pulley. You'll possibly find a residue of casting sand if you dig around (I did).

Really? I thought it was pretty quiet compared to the Chinese mini-lathe.

 

[Beanwood]

The only issue is that it has no "guts" at the final-drive end and I can easily stop the spindle with the palm of my hand on the chuck, or if I engage either of the auto-feeds.

RTFM was the answer in my case as I had exactly the same symptoms - albeit on a CSB with a much simpler (i.e No gearbox) setup - it would run fine - until I put any load on it.

Check your gear combination would be my suggestion. There's a combination of gears and backgear,where it runs freely, but with no torque, and a combination where it locks solid. And the other combinations where it runs nicely with loads of torque

 

[Stupoty]

If you de belt , try turning all the pulleys by hand , it shouldn't feel overly stiff. always good to stick some grease in the grease nipples on the counter shaft just for good luck also.

Personally I don't think the counter shaft bearings should get very hot at all, probably just old grease caked up a bit.

Always nice when your making progress on a project

Stu

 

[DanClarke]

O

If you de belt , try turning all the pulleys by hand , it shouldn't feel overly stiff. always good to stick some grease in the grease nipples on the counter shaft just for good luck also.

Personally I don't think the counter shaft bearings should get very hot at all, probably just old grease caked up a bit.

Always nice when your making progress on a project

Stu

Thanks @Stupoty .

I will give that a try, I do think the tension that is applied to the pulley cone belt is rather high, and that may be what is causing the LH bearing of the countershaft to be noisy/get a bit warm, I can adjust that via the turnbuckle link I reckon.
I currently have the belt set on the middle pulley. I would not have expected the spindle to stall in any pulley combo and as the T-link belt on there has sat idle for 40+ years it may be stuffed/badly need adjusting.
The countershaft on this does not have grease nipples it has 1/4" button Oilers.
I will give all the oilers a good squirt till I see some weeping out somewhere and clean up the excess after that.
As expected, the motor spins very freely for a 60+yr old item.

I am concerned about the "its noisy" comment as I thought it was pretty quiet, but I have no yardstick to go by except my Chinesium mini-lathe.

 

[DanClarke]

RTFM was the answer in my case as I had exactly the same symptoms - albeit on a CSB with a much simpler (i.e No gearbox) setup - it would run fine - until I put any load on it.

Check your gear combination would be my suggestion. There's a combination of gears and backgear,where it runs freely, but with no torque, and a combination where it locks solid. And the other combinations where it runs nicely with loads of torque

Thanks @Beanwood I am reading it and there's a lot it doesn't say about resurrecting a lathe that has been in a shed for 40+ years.

 

[DanClarke]

When you do this, does the motor itself stall or is something slipping elsewhere in the drivetrain?

You could remove the motor drive belt, switch it on and apply a piece of timber to the motor pulley. If the timber emits blue smoke and fails to stop the motor, it's a mechanical problem, not a motor problem.

If you had a clamp meter, put it on one of the phase wires and see how much the current increases when you stop the spindle.

Hi @Agroshield
The motor, the countershaft and everything else continues to spin OK its just the T-Link belt slipping I think/Hope.
I will investigate further.

Dan.

 

[Beanwood]

Thanks @Beanwood I am reading it and there's a lot it doesn't say about resurrecting a lathe that has been in a shed for 40+ years.

My hypotheses is easy to check. Put the backgear in, and turn the driveshaft BY HAND to make sure it turns. If it does, fire it up and see if you still have the problem.

 

[Stupoty]

The countershaft on this does not have grease nipples it has 1/4" button Oilers.

Must be time for me to get an eye test ay ?


Have the vee belts got a serious shape to them from sitting tensioned ? that can give a bit of a regular thump noise until they lose the shape they have set into.

And they normally get run with the door closed , so that would make it seem a bit quieter. Hard to tell , the video might be doing a good job at picking it up as well.


Stu

 

[DanClarke]

Must be time for me to get an eye test ay ?


Have the vee belts got a serious shape to them from sitting tensioned ? that can give a bit of a regular thump noise until they lose the shape they have set into.

And they normally get run with the door closed , so that would make it seem a bit quieter. Hard to tell , the video might be doing a good job at picking it up as well.


Stu

Except for the T-Link belt they are brand new belts. The old ones did have "shape" from standing still, but since removing them they have evened out.
The Motor to Countershaft belt is as tight as I can make it (but feels slack, if you know what I mean), but is not slipping.
The Countershaft to Intermediate shaft belt in comparison is extremely taut, and that may be because the old belt in use had stretched and someone adjusted to compensate. I will slacken it off a bit.
The "slip" only occurs on the T-link belt so I will whip it off (famous last words) and see what those pulleys and the belt itself are like. A new Chinesium Poly-wotsit T-Link belt is on its way.
I could be wrong, but I am getting the impression that the guy I bought the lathe from may have bought this 45 yrs ago and just stored it and never used it.
The clues are that the wiring to the lathe is in square industrial trunking (like from a workshop or a school) and is all roughly hacked off and not "disconnected" (which is what a careful "owner" would do), and the set of lathe tools in the box are (all but one of them) completely unused and still with the protective "dip" over all the sharp ends. If I can get this sorted I should have a nice machine to play with (fingers crossed).

 

[RichardM]

If it hasn't been used for a long time, the belt may just need running to warm up, replacing or just tensioning. It may catch on the casing where it comes through to the cabinet. Sounds like my old MK3 used to with the door open.
My Mk3 used to slip in top speed until warmed up (top belt). Bearings - Have a look at your intermediate belt tension it may be too tight.

 

[DanClarke]

OK folks, I can now be officially classified as a plank an idjit.
I have had another look and......
While the spindle was turning it was only turning because of "stiction" on the spindle to bull wheel interface, the pins were not really engaged (mea-culpa).
With that sorted all the traverse & cross-feeds all work ok and I cannot stall the thing with my hand; but now the "slippage" moves to the motor to countershaft belt (which I did think was loose).
I cannot get it any tighter (I have tried) and I think I am at the maximum travel of the mounting slots; so maybe a smaller belt is required?
I did measure the outside circumference of the old belt and bought one the same size (75cm) so maybe I need to get a slightly smaller one.
Anyone have a known/preferred/working size? There are no discernible numbers/marking on the old belt.

Cheers!

Dan.

 

[Seadog]

You can buy a spray to improve belt grip. I still have a can from the days of my flat-belt Colchester (40 years ago).

 

[Beanwood]

I have had another look and......
While the spindle was turning it was only turning because of "stiction" on the spindle to bull wheel interface, the pins were not really engaged

You aren’t the first, won’t be the last- but isn’t it satisfying when you fix it and realise it’s not a major problem after all

 

[Keith 66]

Sounds like an ex school machine thats done no work to me, If you get problems with the motor I know a local scrap guy who has a pile of them.
If you need any odd bits or materials give me a shout, i got bits & pieces coming out my ears. And im in Benfleet.

 

[DanClarke]

Sounds like an ex school machine thats done no work to me, If you get problems with the motor I know a local scrap guy who has a pile of them.
If you need any odd bits or materials give me a shout, i got bits & pieces coming out my ears. And im in Benfleet.

Hi Keith, you sound like a man I very much need to know.
I am in the bottom end of Thundersley Park Road, whereabouts in the town are you?
The old belt has a 75cm external circumference so I ordered and fitted one with that OD circ and a 10mm depth and 13mm width, but I cannot get the new belt tight so it must be too big.
It is a right pig because the whole lot has to come back out to re-fit a new belt of a different size.

 

[Keith 66]

Sidwell avenue, just round the corner, Just sent you a pm with my number.

 

[6ply]

Hi Keith, you sound like a man I very much need to know.
I am in the bottom end of Thundersley Park Road, whereabouts in the town are you?
The old belt has a 75cm external circumference so I ordered and fitted one with that OD circ and a 10mm depth and 13mm width, but I cannot get the new belt tight so it must be too big.
It is a right pig because the whole lot has to come back out to re-fit a new belt of a different size.

Get yourself some power twist link belt from eBay. It's not too expensive and it works. If it stretches over time, you can remove links.