Jones & Shipman 540 Surface Grinder

[Smouser]

Of the few chucks I've used two fingers, unless you're a Schwarzenegger type, is not enough.

I am as strong as a bull!!

 

[Pete.]

Any stripped and serviced item will be easier to move but you have to ask yourself is the ease of moving the handle more due to the lubrication or is it due to the decreased magnetic resistance? It must take effort to switch that magnetic field.

At the end of the day if it holds the part it holds the part. For a person working at home not working to time constraints or with expensive mostly-finished customer parts then all it might mean is extra blocking or lighter cuts. It's up to the person doing the work to judge and as said above

One thing I will say is that it's not worth being naiive about whether there is any loss of magnetsm. The maker spells it out in plain black and white (my snips above are all from different generations of Eclipse official documentation). It WILL lose magnetism if it's dismantled. It could even be a benefit in some cases which is why electric ones have adjustable power.

 

[Smouser]

Any stripped and serviced item will be easier to move but you have to ask yourself is the ease of moving the handle more due to the lubrication or is it due to the decreased magnetic resistance? It must take effort to switch that magnetic field.

At the end of the day if it holds the part it holds the part. For a person working at home not working to time constraints or with expensive mostly-finished customer parts then all it might mean is extra blocking or lighter cuts. It's up to the person doing the work to judge and as said above

One thing I will say is that it's not worth being naiive about whether there is any loss of magnetsm. The maker spells it out in plain black and white (my snips above are all from different generations of Eclipse official documentation). It WILL lose magnetism if it's dismantled. It could even be a benefit in some cases which is why electric ones have adjustable power.

Good explanation. Thanks @Pete.

 

[Gragson]

@Smouser not seen one apart so thanks for that as never had mine apart, not that I have needed to, there is a reasonable bit of resistance from on/off and vice versa for good reason, wonder if your issue was more to do with the handle mech even tho it is better now? Be interesting to see what Eclipse come back with, if they do... Good work on the grinder

 

[Pete.]

@Smouser not seen one apart so thanks for that as never had mine apart, not that I have needed to, there is a reasonable bit of resistance from on/off and vice versa for good reason, wonder if your issue was more to do with the handle mech even tho it is better now? Be interesting to see what Eclipse come back with, if they do... Good work on the grinder

I've had a couple of Eclipse vices and both were very stiff when obtained but improved with lube and working back and forth. I stopped short of dismantling them and just put up with the effort it takes. One small benefit is that the handle can be put part-way round to give minimal magnetism for setting up.

 

[Pete.]

Secondly, I am not too sure what I want to do with the SG yet either. Will it just be a light strip down and clean to ensure everything is working or is it a complete paint stripping and repaint job? I will be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about surface grinders, the machine might be so worn it is not even worth doing anything to it

My 540 was badly worn on the cross ways. This showed up by grinding everything convex. You can check this most easily by putting a sensitive level across the table and winding it from front to back. If the bubble moves significantly, your cross-ways are worn bowed.

 

[Gragson]

One small benefit is that the handle can be put part-way round to give minimal magnetism for setting up.

This is true, I've never had one apart but the magnetism/resistance almost feels like a cam effect, hardening up and falling off - if that makes sense

 

[Smouser]

My 540 was badly worn on the cross ways. This showed up by grinding everything convex. You can check this most easily by putting a sensitive level across the table and winding it from front to back. If the bubble moves significantly, your cross-ways are worn bowed.

I suppose the whole machine needs to be level first for that method to work?
My SG is still on a metal pallet and not nearly level.

I still have @RobCox loaned precision/engineering level I could use.

I guess the next step will be to remove the table off the SG to ensure all the all ways/outlets/returns are clear and not blocked.

 

[RichardM]

My very old eclipse mag stand lost magnetism after dismantling, it was very old though and didn't move before dismantling so nothing lost.

Check the paint you use isn't affected by the hydraulic oil!

 

[Smouser]

Check the paint you use isn't affected by the hydraulic oil!

The Royal Blue and John Deere Green paints I have don't have the labels on the cans anymore. I am 99% sure it is USA Rustoleum. I smuggled them in my suitcase once when I came back from the USA. I taped the whole can with sticky tape to prevent paint spillage all over my clothes, those paint cans had paper labels and got destroyed when I removed the tape.

The other option I have is Paragon enamel. Again, I am about 99% sure that will be fine to resist the oil.

 

[Pete.]

I suppose the whole machine needs to be level first for that method to work?

Nope, all you need to do is pack the level one end so the bubble is within the marks. All you're looking for is a change.

 

[RichardM]

The Royal Blue and John Deere Green paints I have don't have the labels on the cans anymore. I am 99% sure it is USA Rustoleum. I smuggled them in my suitcase once when I came back from the USA. I taped the whole can with sticky tape to prevent paint spillage all over my clothes, those paint cans had paper labels and got destroyed when I removed the tape.

The other option I have is Paragon enamel. Again, I am about 99% sure that will be fine to resist the oil.

I used Aldis' finest white on a suds tank I made, cutting fluid soon removed it! Fortunately it was made out of galvanized sheet so I just left it bare metal inside.

 

[Smouser]

Nope, all you need to do is pack the level one end so the bubble is within the marks. All you're looking for is a change.

I quickly tried your method this morning, but it did not work because the SG is on a metal post pallet with too much movement.

To get the bubble of the level to not peg completely to one side, I used the toe jack to lift the pallet a little at the front end.

However, the whole setup is too unstable. The weight of the machine shifts when I wound the table towards the back of the machine.

I will have to wait until I have the SG on stable ground to try again. My pallet stacker (the only chance I have got of lifting the SG) is in storage at a different location.

It is a bit of a slog getting the pallet stacker on/off the trailer as the pallet stacker's ground clearance is so low. It bottoms out when loading/offloading it with ramps. Collecting the pallet stacker will have to wait for another time.

In the meantime, I have opened the electrical panel of the SG.

The control buttons on the front of the panel are just simple NO and NC switches which control the contactors for the two motors. Therefore, I will be able to use the original push button switches to control the two VFDs which will eventually run the hydraulic pump and grinder head.

There is a dust/oil shield over the contactors to prevent things from contaminating the contactors.

Which might make it possible for me to install the VFDs in place of the contactors. The height might be a little too restricted but I will see what I can do.

Most of my machine's VFDs are in electrical boxes on the wall but I am starting to like having machines with integrated VFDs into them if space allows. It makes it much easier to move a machine around if needed.

With me not having three-phase power available, the contactors and isolating switch are surplus to requirements.

The wiring to the motors is also old and very stiff, it will be replaced with new SY cable.

With the contactor plate and oil/dust shield removed I could get a better look inside of the machine.

The two red pipes are the hydraulic lines I have previously disconnected from the hydraulic pump.
In the centre of the photo is the grinding head's motor.
The black rubber hose is a hydraulic oil return hose to the hydraulic tank and so are all the brass oil lines. All the oil return lines go through a gauze filter basket before the oil trickles back into the hydraulic tank.

The old contactor base plate/bracket temporarily replaced.

Quick check to see how a VFD might fit with the shield installed.

Some modifications will be necessary if VFDs are to fit in there. There will always be a risk that an oil leak could destroy a VFD installed in there.

 

[Smouser]

Today I went to collect my pallet stacker so I could try and lift the SG off the pallet.

I then pulled the SG outside so that I had the required height to lift the SG.

The SG has got 5 weight-bearing pads at the bottom. Two at the front, 1 at the rear and 2 intermediate pads but more towards the rear. The manual states that the two front pads and rear pad are used to level the machine.

Because I still had to get a pallet truck underneath the machine to move it back inside, I decided to put it on hollow section and feet for now.
Unfortunately, that means that the intermediate pads will not be used and won't be weight-bearing. I am unsure if this arrangement will be stable enough to use the machine.

This was the rough plan.

The red indicates the hollow section and the blue the feet.

There is a diagram of the lifting arrangement in one of the manuals to ensure no damage is caused to the machine. In this specific manual, it also clearly states that the eye bolts could be BSW or Metric

I did not have a lifting strop/sling long enough to follow the exact method so I used two slings to conduct the lift.
This was my setup,

I had to twist the green sling because it was too long compared to the purple sling.

Here it is hanging in the air.

I installed the hollow section and feet and moved it back into the garage.
The front.

The rear.

As you can see the feet and hollow section are not an ideal solution for this machine. The machine is effectively only supported on three points which will more than likely make it too unstable to use with any accuracy.
However, for now, it makes it easier to work on the machine while also allowing me to move it with a pallet truck if needed.

 

[Pete.]

Good enough, and now you have clearance for the drip tray you're probably gonna need.

 

[Brad93]

You don't need a drip tray they shouldn't drop any oil if you're using the correct grade.

Mine certainly didn't when i was test running it.

The oil in question is basically an iso32 with a little bit of tackifier in it.

It's a Mobil product but now discontinued, but Pennine Lubricants will make you up a 25L drum of their stuff which is an identical replacement.

 

[Brad93]

I replaced the two contactors on my 540 with modern low voltage 24v DC schneider ones.
The originals were arcing.

The old switches can be finicky with the low voltage. I don't know if your inverter is 24v or 5v to the switches, but mine takes a few presses sometimes to actually energise the coil. All i can assume is it's old contacts and a lot lower voltage than the original 400v.

Works well enough though and looks original from the outside.

I saw you posted somewhere about the oil getting to the y axis ways.
So when you take the table off and run the machine, you should see oil being pumped up to the ways, this disappears under the ram block, and should drain down to the Y axis, which will be evident by oil being returned down the return pipe or wetting the wipers (which i removed to see if oil drained out of the end of the v).

I was getting nothing.

My next job is to remove the ram block, and see if i can get pipe cleaners down the hole to clear any debris.

I haven't touched the machine for almost a year.

If not it's a case of stripping the hydraulic valve assemblies and then lifting off the saddle to clean the ways.

 

[Smouser]

The oil in question is basically an iso32 with a little bit of tackifier in it.

It's a Mobil product but now discontinued, but Pennine Lubricants will make you up a 25L drum of their stuff which is an identical replacement.

Thank you, I wil probably just try to get something off the shelf. There will be some 'stock oil' that will be suitable.

I saw you posted somewhere about the oil getting to the y axis ways.
So when you take the table off and run the machine, you should see oil being pumped up to the ways, this disappears under the ram block, and should drain down to the Y axis, which will be evident by oil being returned down the return pipe or wetting the wipers (which i removed to see if oil drained out of the end of the v).

I was getting nothing.

Thanks, that makes sense. I will probably go that route too. Take the table off to see if everything is clear and oil is getting to everywhere it should.

I hope to get the hydraulic tank painted next weekend so I can continue with the machine.

 

[fizzy]

I hate you
Now I will have to give mine some TLC
Seriously though brilliant write up. I collected a very very nice JS540 about 6 months ago. It is the 540P with the powered rise and fall head. Really good condition and got it at a brilliant price. Took about 15 hours to go and get it - load and return though - rather knackered at the end of it.
There is one problem with mine - table moves to the right fine but then won't return - it does sometimes but not always.
If I push down on the little trip lever thing it then returns the other way - possibly a stuck valve or spring?
Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Smouser]

I hate you
Now I will have to give mine some TLC
Seriously though brilliant write up. I collected a very very nice JS540 about 6 months ago. It is the 540P with the powered rise and fall head. Really good condition and got it at a brilliant price. Took about 15 hours to go and get it - load and return though - rather knackered at the end of it.
There is one problem with mine - table moves to the right fine but then won't return - it does sometimes but not always.
If I push down on the little trip lever thing it then returns the other way - possibly a stuck valve or spring?
Anyone got any ideas?

You have talked about your mythical SG before. However, nobody ever saw even one lousy photo it..

I don't think I can help with your SG problem because I am a total newbie when it comes to SGs. I am sure I have read somewhere on a different forum (while searching for all the manuals) that the park lever can get tripped and sometimes stick.

If it is not that, it might be sticky bits in the valve block (probably more likely in your case). It might require a quick strip down/clean.