Parm
Respect The Sound System
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Nope, nor will a £1000 pound welder
- Thread starter T_i_m
- Start date
A mates mate keeps buying more and more expensive guitars I understand in the hope that when he spends enough it will play itself. ;-)
It's funny / embarrassing (depending which side of the fence you are) when a professional does much better with your 'cr*p stuff' than you could do with with their quality gear. ;-)
A good example of that was when racing RC Yachts (Lasers) and one lady kept coming last. She blamed her boat and I offered to swap to see if it was. I was still up the front with hers and she came last with mine, however, I did have to work much harder with hers so was able to give her some advice how she could make it easier. ;-)
Cheers, Tim
Oh. So is it really like I thought and we have to rely on 'The Force'? ;-)
Joking aside and it may be down to the difficulties of filming this stuff but with most of the Youtube videos I've seen where people are advocating a particular new truecolour large screen super mask, I can't seem to see any more of what I would be doing as I could with my own old one (from the last time I used it)?
It must make a difference though as I guess they wouldn't sell them ... so maybe it's our eyes?
FWIW, at 65 and wearing my readers most of the time, I believe my general vision is pretty good, as is my night vision (compared to others who seem to be really blind in the dark). Maybe having good night vision works against you when welding and your eyes are getting on?
Doing some further research on 'cheater lenses' I am not sure how they would work with the larger screen masks?- whilst I wear 1.5 diopter readers now, my eyesight is very good. I was also recommended by the welders at work to get a mask to accommodate any glasses you may use and to never use cheater lenses
Cheers, T i m
Ubique
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GYS Alien XXL Excellent mask in my opinion, well over your budget but still at a very low price at https://www.hisltd.co.uk/ProductDet...LMET-SH-5-13/8ee5dd0bbd4e4ef1aaa795b434c56895 Will take a cheater lens (despite supposedly not being able to), also has external adjustment of darkness.
I'm the same, I just don't trust these 20quidders even though they're probably fine and can't justify a "proper"auto helmet so I'm still on a flip down old skool thing with the dark glass window in
When I do do anything it's stick and the helmet does for me what I need.As we get older our light sensitivity decreases. These LED mini torches help no end. Extra light before auto darkening and more concentrated light on the weld.
Also, this one has a switch internally to change the shade ranges from 10 to 13 or 5 to 9. I tend to use the 5 to 9 range on its darkest and it’s a lot better than the upper range. You het full UV protection even when in grinding mode shade 4 so not much likelihood of arc eye.
All I can say is that something of this grade is a huge improvement over the previous ebay cheapo thing I had. Not in ESAB or Optrel league but not in that price bracket either.
Thanks for that. I think my budget is reasonably flexible, for the right solution. ;-)
How do the cheater lenses work with the bigger screen models? I mean, is there a bigger cheater screen somehow or do you just only / mostly look though the cheater bit when welding?
How important is that or is it one of those things that isn't needed (the external bit) if the mask can generally manage darkness automatically (to your preset)?
Cheers, Tim
Ubique
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I use the cheater lens in the bottom third of the screen only - a bit like wearing 'readers', works for me, probably with it being quite a big screen, there's room to look over the top. I use the variable darkness to brighten up the visibility as the material heat goes up and the amps go down - I TIG Alu mostly. The recommended preset range is based upon the type of welding and the current used, if the current varies, so will the visibility. I never use the 'grind' option, too much opportunity to forget to set it back before you go back to welding!
Manual is here https://www.gys-welding.com/pdf/manual/uk/037229.pdf
I bought one on recommendation, I also have a 3M Speedglas, which is good, but I prefer the GYS for TIG as the detail visibility is so much better, both in terms of visible area without having to move your head and colour rendition. Having the ability to vary the darkness whilst welding is a real bonus for me.
Noted.
Understood.
Excellent.
Quite. It's good to know however that there is as price threshold that can be found that *actually* means you get worthwhile functions, rather than just more profit for someone.
In general and for things I'm buying for my normal light / diy type use, that is the threshold I aim for. Good enough to reliably do what it says on the tin but without spending extra for unwanted bits that I'm either unlikely to use, wouldn't work very well if I tried or fancy badges etc. ;-)
Cheers, Tim
Sorry for the further questions but is the cheater meant to fit in there as you are using it or does it happen to fit where you put it?
So having easy access to said brightness is a useful / essential even feature?
I've seen charts that cover that with ranges for each welding type and I spotted one in the manual you link to further down.
Yeah ... I can see how you could, especially when you are getting on with stuff.
Thanks for that.
I can see how it might be. My only thought was the adjustment being knocked but I don't think was ever a problem on my old mask.
Do you get any spare screen protectors? I see mention of them in the manual but wasn't sure if it came with any or if you have tried to get more. I think it's one of those things where I'd try to get some with the mask ('in for a penny etc') on the grounds I probably wouldn't be able to get them later on, especially if it's not a mainstream / big brand product?
Chher, T iim
I took up RC buggy racing a few years ago with my then partners son (I had done it pretty seriously in the 80s as a teenager) - I was reasonably good, but not as good as I thought I was . . . bought a new car, was still reasonably good . . . Top guy in little club, one who would lap the A-final field, drove my car and pronounced it actually rather good as I had it set up . . . so that was annoying - it really was me not as good as I thought I was
Welding masks - I got fed up with flashing myself - I had given myself a good dose of arc-eye, sticking welding a Lancia beta back together with sunglasses and squinting at age 18 . . . I bought a second hand Speedglas hat from a guy at work - a revelation! It packed up eventually, so I bought a newer (still second hand) Speedglass 9000X (I think) - fixed shade. Still have it now, 15 yrs or more later.
I bought a load of replacement protective screens for it but I was still on the original - well washed. After all, I could still see through it. After something mentioned on here, I went out and fitted new ones . . .the difference was amazing - I could SEE !
Having good lighting really does help - as does not getting too close, something I used to do - step back, literally, lean away a bit - give it some room to let light in and yours eyes room to work. Strange as it may seem ,its not a self-illuminating task either - light really does help.
Around the time of the original mask failing, I was given a cheap mask - I tried it. It seem to darken okay, I could see to weld. It seemed good. But I realised my eyes felt strained, sore, tired after using it. After using the Speedglas (now 3M) they don't. Tired maybe, simply from working a long time, but not eye strained sore.
I have a hand held mask, a good curved, solid one, and another little tiny one - the one that came flat packed with my first ever SIP Migmate from Halfords back in 1992 (still got the migmate, still works - I didn't know they were crap, didn't work, until I read it on here after owning and really using it for a good 20 yrs)for confined spaces, under cars etc.
So I think all the big names masks will be good, safe, to use. Just got to find one. I like my Speedglas one - although the headband has always annoyed me - never seems to tighten securely, despite being replaced. I quite often get tempted by some of the ones mentioned on here . . . then I think of my stock of protective screens (while not born a Yorkshireman, I've been here over 40yrs and picked up the tight-fisted gene . . ) and the fact I do this as a hobby to fix cars, build cars etc - I don't really need the latest big window, true colour.
But if any suppliers want to give me one on long term test . . .
Hehe. I used to race RC Electric cars (I was even a sponsored driver back in the day) and after having all my gear packed away for years, a couple of mates fancied taking it up and went out and bought all the latest stuff. I dragged my old stuff out (Yokomo MR4TC with NiMH batteries etc) and went along with them to a local club. Initially I was of humorous interest, this 'old guy' bringing out all this old stuff but they started to take me more seriously as I made my way into the A final and came second. ;-) My mates had gone home early after writing their cars off during the qualifiers. ;-)
I took up RC buggy racing a few years ago with my then partners son (I had done it pretty seriously in the 80s as a teenager) - I was reasonably good, but not as good as I thought I was . . . bought a new car, was still reasonably good . . . Top guy in little club, one who would lap the A-final field, drove my car and pronounced it actually rather good as I had it set up . . . so that was annoying - it really was me not as good as I thought I was
What do they say ... 'All the gear but no idea'. ;-)
Ouch ... I've only had a slight touch of arc-eye and really wouldn't want to go there again. I also vowed to never weld up a car again and partially why we (the Mrs and I) built the kitcar 30 years ago. ;-)
Yup. I think much of the older gear was designed and built to not only last but be repaired or at least serviced.
I think such things build up over time so we sort of get used to them, often with it taking somone else to point of the issue to you. Like noticing a noise on somones car that they hadn't noticed themselves.
Yes, so I now understand and sort of goes against the logic (considering we used to have 'arc lamps'!). I'll look forward to giving it a go when I carry on with a project I stared a while ago now, re-furbishing an ex Recovery Services take-apart motorcycle trailer.
And that's quite reassuring isn't it, the chances are you aren't getting blasted with UV with the better mask.
Hehe. I also still have my SIP but arc welder and I wouldn't hesitate getting it out again for the right sort of job (maybe the trailer I mentioned above as I'll probably be welding it outdoors)? I still have and use the 1/2 tonne, braked box trailer I built up from an Indespension chassis 40+ years ago. You can tell it's 'old' as it sports Morris Minor wheels because that's what I was driving (a van) at the time. ;-)
Understood, however, there is need and appreciate. I think many of us have struggled with inferior tools and equipment until they finally break and we are *forced* to go out and replace them and then we wish we had replaced them much earlier! Not only do they often provide a better solution but they sometime make what was a chore into something nearly pleasurable. I think that might apply to those here who 'finally' bough themselves that all singing AC/DC TIG capable welder and then been able to weld say thin car panels *easily* and have never looked back?
In some respects I'd rather just be recommended something buy someone who I trust has been there and got the T shirt because too much choice can mean I never make the leap. It's quite lovely when you go into a shop, they have all models in stock, they run though the range but then point one out that *actually* matches your real needs for you. I think that was the case with my little Lincoln SP170 (it might be a 160 or summat). I'd not touched it for maybe 3 years till the other night. I dug the torch and earth clamp out from under the heap of stuff, turned the gas on, pulled the trigger for a few seconds to get some gas though, snipped off the excess wire then made 4 tacks. I turned the gas off, pulled the trigger to purge the pressure and turned the welder off again. ;-)But if any suppliers want to give me one on long term test . . .
Cheers, Tim
Ubique
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There is a pair of channels that the cheater lens fits in - i'm guessins the reason they say 'no' is that no-one produces a full-sized one.
The external control seems a gimmick until you start using it, it wasn't a 'must have' when I was looking at choices, there is a good bit of resistance to the external control, I've certainly never changed it inadvertently or knocked it.
The mask comes with a pair of protectors fitted and a spare set, they are a standard size easily available on Amazon (I checked before I bought it!) GYS are a 'Mainstream brand', particularly in the EU (they are a French manufacturer) and in the automotive repair sector in UK, they've been going since the 1960's I've got one of their TIG machines - again on recommendation and I'm very pleased with it.
Burdekin
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There is a noticeable difference to a helmet with 1111 optics vs one with 1112 optics. It is surprising the difference between a 1111 and a 1112 helmet and I think most of the folks with cheaper helmets probably have never tried a good one. The cheaper helmets are fine but a good helmet with 1111 optics does make it easier. The clearer lens does make it easier to see the weld and where you are welding. It’s the optics rating you want to compare when assessing how good it will be to see through. My Lincoln Viking optics are fantastic but the helmet itself is a bit heavy and the head band assembly isn’t great if welding in awkward positions. I use my Parweld in awkward positions or where it might get damaged. I have a standard size cheater lens fitted to it so in reality I’m not sure the big lenses in the helmets are really needed. A good helmet is a good investment in my opinion.
After exploring all the suggestions so far (thanks very much to all) and considering my reserved / utilitarian nature, budget and predicted usage, I think the ESAB Savage A40 might be a good choice for me.
Do I remember the ESAB name in welding from donkeys years ago? Their stuff for sale at places like BOC / Murex? Shame their Upshire location isn't a retail site as I could probably walk there! ;-)
The reviews of the A40 seem to tick all the right boxes (many the same as it's big brother, the Sentinel) with no hint of any specific issues, comes with a 3 year guarantee (?), can officially take a range of cheater lenses (if I wanted to give one a try), most key spares and accessories seem readily available and the clarity of the view seems to be noted as good. I believe it's still Chinese made (what tech isn't) but to a better standard than many of the cheaper offerings?
I think it could be a 'you can't go wrong for the money' as opposed to 'it's fantastic but expensive (or an unknown)' which is more me.
Unless anyone has any good reasons why not ... ?
Cheers, Tim
Burdekin
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The A40 has 1112 optics so it’s a low to mid range helmet. It will do the job but it’s no better or worse than anything in that price range in reality.
Silly question but what specifically does the 1111 etc rating mean? I guess 1111 is the best ...
?
Ok.
That was something I wasn't sure about, especially if a cheater lense (whuch I'm guessing would be similar dimension ratios to our eyes).
Agreed, however, I can be a sucker for 'feature creep' and I'm trying to keep that in mind here.
I'm guessing that if there was a single welding mask that suited everyone and covered all bases then that would be the only one that anyone would buy and the only one that would be made (assuming it was affordable ... something it could be if it sold in such numbers ...). ;-)
I guess many generally end up with what is the cheapest we can get away with that does most / all of what we want. 'Good value for money' etc. Those with plenty of disposable income or *need* something to be the best because they use it for their living may raise the bar etc.
The irony here is that those who are doing something all day long can probably get away with an inferior solution compared with those who might be doing something infrequently and who therefore need all the help they can get. Trying to find that balance is why the likes of me who appreciates the feedback from those who *are* using these things pretty hard but still tries to make some level of decision based on their best understanding of their needs (which may or may not be educated / valid etc). ;-)
A good example of where I had a feature list that was based on fact / experience was back when telephone answering machines were starting to become popular. AFAIWC, *every* TAM must:
Indicate the number of messages directly (so some form of numeric display, not expect you to count number of flashes on a single LED).
Date and time-stamp every message as not everyone recorded what time they called so an 'It's urgent, call me back' could have been ages ago! ;-(
Allow sufficient rings to give you chance to get to it if you were available as it would be 'On' all the time.
Provide remote access.
Be quick to reset between calls.
Allow a reasonable recording time but not infinite.
Allow you to quickly step forward and back between recordings.
So I ended up with a fairly expensive (Office spec) Panasonic jobby that was probably 10x more expensive than the most basic machine at the time. However, I could justify that because it was something that was going to be used regularly and hopefully last a long time.
Something I hear regularly from the respondents here (and reading elsewhere) is we end up with several masks, either because of upgrading because of need (features), age (tech advancement), as a result of wear and tear or simply because we can. ;-)
The interesting thing is that one might think that you would (always) end up with a favourite that you would use all the time but it seems some are willing to put up with a technically inferior mask if it means maybe protecting the 'best' one from loss or damage or simply because a quirk made the lesser mask 'better' in some specific situation.
Cheers, Tim
Ok ... so ... is there something obvious with the same credentials (reputable brand, 3yr guarantee, reliable, spares / acessories easily available, true colour, sub £100 etc) that *everyone* here would agree would be considered a good / VFM buy do you think please (and if so, what)?
Cheers, Tim
Burdekin
Chief Bodger
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Optical Clarity |Lincoln Electric
Selecting the best auto-darkening welding helmet reaches beyond standard occupational safety issues; it also should take the wearer's vision into account.
www.lincolnelectric.com
Most cheap to mid range helmets now have a 1112 rating so they’re pretty much similar in that regard so it comes down to other features and price. Don’t go paying a load for a helmet that doesn’t have the best optics is probably more my point as you can get a reasonable helmet for £50ish. The Esab will be just fine but in reality there are cheaper ones of that quality. I take care of my Lincoln but my parweld not so much but I have spare lenses so change them when needed. You don’t need a 1111 optics helmet but I was surprised at how much better it was and how clear it is to weld with, but you pay for it.
