MIG mask. Do you get what you pay for?

[Hood]

I was reading reviews of one of the masks mentioned here suffering from unplanned / random switch-offs?

Noted. Is this the £450 jobby or is the Crystal 2 a more expensive model?

Yeah, that seems to be a fairly common thing.

Actually that's pretty cool and does give me some idea of the sort of things you can expect to see though a 'good' mask. Would you say it's a similar level of visibility when MIG welding at say 50A?

Cheers, Tim

I would imagine so although I never Mig weld at 50A.
99.9% of my mig welding is Aluminium of which I expect is mostly 100 Amps to 250Amps. The only steel I do with the Mig is heavy stuff and probably 200Amps plus although I hardly ever do steel. With those it is just as clear but as said it is a lot clearer than the video shows.
Stick welding I do from 20Amps upwards and the view is as good as with Mig or Tig or even watching the plasma.

I do welding for a good part of my living so it is well worth it for me to have the Crystal whether it would be worth it for someone just doing occasional welding you would have to decide.

The Crystal and Crystal 2 are one in the same. I would love to get the Panoramaxx with Crystal lens as I liked the Panramaxx helmet I had previously just wasn't so keen on the green tint lens it had but with the Crystal lens it would be my ideal lid. I have two Crystal lids at the moment so not spending any more on a Panoramaxx.

 

[Hood]

I came across this vid which shows Mig welding through the Crystal and also a Viking, 7mins 30 S in gives a side by side view of both.
Again I would say the actual view you see is much clearer than the camera shows but it is a decent comparison.

 

[Kram]

Im happy with my 9 year old, £20 chinese lid, can see well enough and it being cheap I was happy to modify it for wearing a mask underneath, so I can now safely weld galvanised/dirty/painted stuff without metal fever.

You have to pay a lot for a branded one with any respitory protection built in!
Thinking I might upgrade soon as it will be much nicer to use, but its not going to make the slightest difference to my welds but I will keep this for any dirty stuff.

A £7 amazon 10" ring light will solve any ambient light problems. I often do stuff late, outside and it has helped a lot. Much better than a led/head torch, having the whole bench uniformly lit.

 

[T_i_m]

I would imagine so although I never Mig weld at 50A.

That was just a guess. What current would I typically need for ~3mm thick mild steel?

99.9% of my mig welding is Aluminium of which I expect is mostly 100 Amps to 250Amps.

What are you welding if you don't mind me asking?

The only steel I do with the Mig is heavy stuff and probably 200Amps plus although I hardly ever do steel. With those it is just as clear but as said it is a lot clearer than the video shows.

Understood.

Stick welding I do from 20Amps upwards and the view is as good as with Mig or Tig or even watching the plasma.

Ok.

I do welding for a good part of my living so it is well worth it for me to have the Crystal whether it would be worth it for someone just doing occasional welding you would have to decide.

Of course. At £450 that's more money than I've ever paid for any car (except for the kitcar kit). ;-)

That said, the Mrs bought me the Lincoln SP170 (or whatever it is) because I was going to make some steel trifold doors to replace the 8' square up-and-over the garage / workshop came with so it would only need a suitable welding project that I might otherwise have to pay someone to do for me to cover the cost. ;-)

The Crystal and Crystal 2 are one in the same. I would love to get the Panoramaxx with Crystal lens as I liked the Panramaxx helmet I had previously just wasn't so keen on the green tint lens it had but with the Crystal lens it would be my ideal lid.

It must be lovely having an answer to that question. ;-)

I have two Crystal lids at the moment so not spending any more on a Panoramaxx.

;-)

Cheers, Tim

 

[Hood]

.....

What are you welding if you don't mind me asking?
...

I mainly do work on fishing boats, a couple of posts I have done about them.

Cat mods

I have started on the latest roller system I will be putting on a boat. This is on a Cheetah Cat I fitted out about 2 years ago and it had a davit fitted at the time. It is the outside one. I will be fitting the same to his brothers Cheetah later on in the year, that is the inside one. Last...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

The next Cat has landed

Yesterday the next Cat I will be fitting out arrived. The fitting out will be similar to previous ones but with some slight differences. Glad I wasn't their in the dreich weather to help, when I go tomorrow it can be raining or snowing all it likes as I will be inside the big shed :D

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[T_i_m]

Im happy with my 9 year old, £20 chinese lid, can see well enough and it being cheap I was happy to modify it for wearing a mask underneath, so I can now safely weld galvanised/dirty/painted stuff without metal fever.

Agreed. I often buy cheap stuff on the grounds I don't mind modding it.

You have to pay a lot for a branded one with any respitory protection built in!

I was watching a bum-pack type forced / filtered air system video on Youtube earlier and I think he mentioned 1200 USD?

Thinking I might upgrade soon as it will be much nicer to use, but its not going to make the slightest difference to my welds but I will keep this for any dirty stuff.

;-)

A £7 amazon 10" ring light will solve any ambient light problems. I often do stuff late, outside and it has helped a lot. Much better than a led/head torch, having the whole bench uniformly lit.

I think I need to get to grips with the lighting thing but I need to get a mask first! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

 

[T_i_m]

I mainly do work on fishing boats, a couple of posts I have done about them.

Cat mods

I have started on the latest roller system I will be putting on a boat. This is on a Cheetah Cat I fitted out about 2 years ago and it had a davit fitted at the time. It is the outside one. I will be fitting the same to his brothers Cheetah later on in the year, that is the inside one. Last...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

Lovely / interesting work mate.

Were those bearings 'self centering' as they look similar to the one I changed on daughters 11hp hammermill chipper?

"The inside one has now been superseded by the outer one which is higher out the water,"
I think they call that 'freeboard'. (Son of an oil tanker captain). ;-)

The next Cat has landed

Yesterday the next Cat I will be fitting out arrived. The fitting out will be similar to previous ones but with some slight differences. Glad I wasn't their in the dreich weather to help, when I go tomorrow it can be raining or snowing all it likes as I will be inside the big shed :D

www.mig-welding.co.uk

I'm with you on the 'You do what you think's best' thing and whilst it's quite flattering that they put so much trust in you / us, it can be both difficult (if you don't know everything about the 'bigger picture') and quite a responsibility, from a time, materials and cost pov. ;-(

Funnily I have recently been doing similar things to you but on a smaller scale and in plastic with my 3D printer and Myford lathe.

I have a small box trailer that doesn't seem to accept standard wheels and I don't have enough swing to get even an 8" rim on my lathe. So I used the 3D printer to turn up a dummy hub and spun it on a rod with the cordless drill and an old tumble-dryer belt (like an old power takeoff belt on farming equipment) and used a die-grinder held still to bore out the centre to clear the hub.

The rim is mounted 'stud centric' so centre boss accuracy wasn't really an issue but I wanted to try to get it (them, x3) as concentric as I could. I also printed up a 100mm PCD carrier to be able to mount the complete wheel on my balancing spindle. One of the few trailers around with balanced wheels. ;-)

Cheers, Tim

 

[Hood]

Aye, normal housed bearing albeit stainless ones.

 

[T_i_m]

Aye, normal housed bearing albeit stainless ones.

I love stainless stuff and inherited Dads treasured collection of stainless boat fittings and fasteners. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

 

[Hood]

I love stainless stuff and inherited Dads treasured collection of stainless boat fittings and fasteners. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Aye, all stainless or aluminium I work with, well some bronze as well.
When I first started doing this for a living most of the boats used steel as it was just what other people made for them as stainless was so expensive. In reality though stainless wasn't as expensive because there was no maintenance and it lasted forever, so long term it was way cheaper.

 

[hotponyshoes]

You certainly do get what you pay for with a welding helmet but, like hi-fi/sports cars/golf clubs, the price is subject to diminishing returns.

With the cheap Chinese stuff you are paying for the actual cost of the components plus what ever profit the factory make for reverse engineering something and knocking out 1000 of them per shift.

Mid range and you also pay for the custom branding/detailing that a manafacture specifies plus the fact that said manafacture may also order a load of spare outer lenses and support the helmet during its production run.

Go high end into the custom made stuff and you are also paying a large chunk for the development and testing required to get the best in clarity and reliability, the fancy advertising and packaging and the availability of virtually any spare part via an extensive dealer network for many years to come.

One tip if you but a cheap helmet, unless spares are available (and you stock up on them) don't buy the biggest lense you can.
Go for a lense that's the same size (or smaller) as something else common (rtech/parweld) then you can use any old replacement inner/outer lens and cut them down a bit if required.
Or check the price/availability of the consumables before buying as some of the cheap stuff can work out more expensive than a mid range after the first few months.

Do the same research on expensive helmets as well. The outer lenses for the esba a50 cost more than a complete cheap helmet!

 

[Munkul]

I was just looking (online) at the SIP Meteor 2300 from Toolstation for £36.29 but it's not Truecolour. Might be better than my old one ... wherever it is ... ;-(

i don't hold with cheap helmets but it's handy having a cheap one to be used and abused.

But the SIP ones... We bought two of that model, and they broke within a month, the headgear is made from brittle chocolate.

I'd rather have a Lidl helmet.

The best value for money helemt IMO was the Esab Warrior tech, it's well built, comfortable and does what it needs to do. The Savage has replaced it and it's a better hood again, although a little more expensive.

 

[Hood]

Ok, decided to see if I could get a better vid hrough the new phone.
I sort of half managed.
First vid was with the phone putting the light on and it shows the arc. It is still quite a bit clearer with the naked eye but this is getting close but with the light on you do not see the surrounding area well.

This one I put some tape over the LEDs on the phone so no backlight, the arc is no so clear but you see the surrounding area better, more like you do with the eye although still not as clear.

So to summarise what you see is clearer than both but a combination of the two, you see the arc as in the first vid but also the surrounding area as in the second.

 

[T_i_m]

You certainly do get what you pay for with a welding helmet but, like hi-fi/sports cars/golf clubs, the price is subject to diminishing returns.

<snip good overview for brevity>

Thanks for that and all agreed. And your list of 'heads up' is exactly what I'm currently trying to navigate though.

Now, a few years ago the chances are new stuff wouldn't be coming out every day and so we might have a small range of long lasting options that would be current for years. This would make it easier to recommend one to someone else etc.

 

[T_i_m]

i don't hold with cheap helmets but it's handy having a cheap one to be used and abused.

I'm not against 'cheap' as long as it does what it says on the tin. You see stripdowns of 'cheap' Chinese electronics on Youtube and sometimes the report is that they are 'very good', especially given the (often) very low price.

Then you get the nasty cr*p of course. ;-(

But the SIP ones... We bought two of that model, and they broke within a month, the headgear is made from brittle chocolate.

Oh. I was looking at the reviews of the top 2 models on Tooltatin and the top one was as you describe but the next one down seemed much much better (just not Truecolour).

I'd rather have a Lidl helmet.

Yeah, in general I've found Lidl tech to be pretty good. It was their smart light kit that got me into home automation and I now have a fairly extensive system. ;-)

The best value for money helemt IMO was the Esab Warrior tech, it's well built, comfortable and does what it needs to do. The Savage has replaced it and it's a better hood again, although a little more expensive.

Yeah, as a 'safe' option (long established innovator / supplier with a reputation to lose, parts and accessories available, good reviews etc) I think that's what I keep coming back to (the ESAB A40 / Savage).

Possibly like the 'BOC Sapphire' gas torch? ;-)

 

[T_i_m]

The outer lenses for the esba a50 cost more than a complete cheap helmet!

I just checked this out (as I was considering the ESAB Savage) and the first hit suggested ~23 quid for a pack of 10 on Amazon?

ESAB Warrior Tech/Savage Front Cover Lens (Pack 10) + FREE P&P : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

ESAB Warrior Tech/Savage Front Cover Lens (Pack 10) + FREE P&P : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

www.amazon.co.uk

Ok, you might not want a pack of 10 but at £2.30 each it doesn't sound that expensive but I've not got anything to compare that against? The helmet my mate leant me had two of each of the lenses in the kit and I'd like to think the Savage came with at least one spare of each?

 

[Munkul]

The A50 has big fancy curved lenses and yes they are quite expensive. The A40 is a different design altogether and more "regular"

Honestly I'd just buy an A40 if i were you, and be done with it. The kit comes with a couple of free lenses

ESAB Savage A40 Welding Helmet - Black

ESAB INTRODUCE A BRAND NEW ADF WELDING HELMET TO THEIR RANGE!The new SAVAGE A40 helmet replaces the old ESAB favourite, the Warrior Tech. Inspired by the success of the Sentinel A50, this new model has a range of features that provide the welder with ideal functionality, performance and comfort. Pro

www.weldtech.co.uk

 

[hotponyshoes]

I just checked this out (as I was considering the ESAB Savage) and the first hit suggested ~23 quid for a pack of 10 on Amazon?

ESAB Warrior Tech/Savage Front Cover Lens (Pack 10) + FREE P&P : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

ESAB Warrior Tech/Savage Front Cover Lens (Pack 10) + FREE P&P : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

www.amazon.co.uk

Ok, you might not want a pack of 10 but at £2.30 each it doesn't sound that expensive but I've not got anything to compare that against? The helmet my mate leant me had two of each of the lenses in the kit and I'd like to think the Savage came with at least one spare of each?

That's my point about checking out the running cost of a helmet in advance.
The esab A40 is £23 for a pack of 10.
I don't expect you will get a 5 pack for the A50 for less than that.

You can get a complete helmet on ebay for £22.50!!

 

[hotponyshoes]

Can't quite belive this but aliexpress seems to have them for under a fiver?

 

[T_i_m]

Ok, decided to see if I could get a better vid hrough the new phone.
I sort of half managed.

And thanks for trying. ;-)

First vid was with the phone putting the light on and it shows the arc. It is still quite a bit clearer with the naked eye but this is getting close but with the light on you do not see the surrounding area well.

Agreed.

This one I put some tape over the LEDs on the phone so no backlight, the arc is no so clear but you see the surrounding area better, more like you do with the eye although still not as clear.

Ok and I can see that. ;-)

However, going back to my welding instruction 50 years ago I can clearly remember a moment where it all seemed to come together quite quickly. Test pieces you would actually be willing yer fellow classmates and the lecturer to see rather than throw straight in the scrap bin. ;-(

I would draw a sort of parallel with Amateur Radio work or my days running a datacomms Telephone Support desk where you learn to 'listen though' the noise to get to the facts / data.

With welding it's learning to look for then see things like the molten pool and picking up on all the small glimpses and clues you get. When stick welding I can remember planning the potential weld re what length of rod you have left in the torch or even choosing / making a short one if it's not much and I want more control.

And learning how important (at the beginning especially) stance / access / general job prep can be to the likelihood of a good result, along with settings and process etc.

So to summarise what you see is clearer than both but a combination of the two, you see the arc as in the first vid but also the surrounding area as in the second.

I was looking at both the actual molten pool and the surroundings in the second vid and was reasonably pleased to see I could see enough of both. If it's better still ITRW then that is very reassuring.

Whilst not identical, I've also been soldering for over 55 years (Ex BT electronics bench repair) and feel I'm reasonably good at it. I still try to apply the same processes re access, lighting, glasses, temperature and tip size and shape to improve the chances of getting a good result quickly and easily but can often still do a reasonable job even if the circumstances aren't ideal.