NBC Auto Weld 2 - inside a 50 year old MIG

[ranchero]

i can not view it. says admin privileges required. i don't believe the print is diy as i scanned it from a manual although it looks like it

 

[a111r]

Thank you.
I've reported to the Mods that some of the manuals including the NBC one aren't viewable, so hopefully that issue will be resolved soon.

 

[500e]

+1

 

[a111r]

i can not view it. says admin privileges required. i don't believe the print is diy as i scanned it from a manual although it looks like it

Well the manual's still not viewable.

Would you mind reading the missing relay's ID and posting it here, please?

 

[Wozzaaah]

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/can-anyone-help-with-web-config-redirects.112463/#post-1835530

 

[a111r]

Thanks but that's about code and computers, so I don't understand anything within it.

The NBC manual hyperlink goes to a NBC or Butters thread without any attachments.

 

[ranchero]

Well the manual's still not viewable.

Would you mind reading the missing relay's ID and posting it here, please?


View attachment 291976

i will as soon as i can but it might take a few days. mine still worked when one of those relays fell out. probably the spot weld timer that has never worked

 

[a111r]

I've never had an old 'spares/repairs' machine for a whole month without powering it up.
So today I had to do it. Despite being no further along with the missing relay's identity or a schematic.

Good news. On plugging it in (oddly there's no 'on/off' switch), the power light came on, it hummed, it didn't emit the smoke or smell bad!
Pressing the trigger operated the contactor OK but not the 110v feed motor.
Welding voltages were present over the five settings, ranging 23v to 33v.

So I'm hoping that the missing relay, when replaced, will enable the motor (which was the reason that this MIG was replaced in 1995 with a Supermig 180).

I think I should do something, like "conditioning", to help the 8 smoothing capacitors, after their 25 year hiatus, in coming back to life without trauma. Something about oxides / reforming etc...?
Any pointers here, chaps?

 

[Drains]

I had a 300A NBC machine with separate wire feed. Was a great, solid, reliable bit of kit. There's a picture somewhere in the distant past of this forum...
No on/off switch either. Plug in, neon light on, away you go.
Good luck getting yours going. If it's the Parvalux motor that's gone it might be a struggle to find a direct replacement. Do a search on this forum though - people have been there before (you'll need to go back to 2007 or so...)

A bit of info here

who made this ?

I bought this welder a couple of years ago from ebay it's big and it's heavy but works very well and goes right down very low for welding thin metal (like we have on 2cvs) :artist: and has a spot setting :welder: would anyone know who made it?

www.mig-welding.co.uk

and here

Anyone know anything about Butter Welders?

I was looking on E-bay for a big single phase welder and came across a welder by the make of Butter's. Does anyone know anything about them. Are they a good welder or just scrap?

www.mig-welding.co.uk

and here - a bit about Parvalux and Autowelds -

Anyone know anything about Butter Welders?

I was looking on E-bay for a big single phase welder and came across a welder by the make of Butter's. Does anyone know anything about them. Are they a good welder or just scrap?

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[a111r]

Thanks Drains, I've seen all those threads before and I revived at least one of them.
Hopefully the motor isn't shot - rated at 1/4 HP, it must have had an easy life?

 

[DSR]

I noticed the relay with the RS logo on, must be 'relatively' new because they were RadioSpares in them days

I did have a look at rswww.com to see if the number was still relevant, it wasn't which is a bit sad, I was expecting them to still carry it. They probably do but with a different part number.

Any ideas what the middle one is ?

Brilliant project though. The quality of the metalwork really puts the modern tin can Chinese stuff to shame.

 

[a111r]

Thanks DSR. All the relays present are of the same type. One RS relay is missing it's clear cover.
I found NOS RS ones on Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274801880430?hash=item3ffb77ed6e:g:RAsAAOSwSy5go7qK

It's just the missing one that's of a different spec, both in pin numbers and pin type, I think..

 

[a111r]

An interesting old beast!
There are two main welding transformers, are the secondaries in series ?
The inductor has a tapping where the capacitors are connected.
I like the wire-wound rheostat to control the speed of the ( AC ? ) wirefeed motor, and the gear-driven pressure roller. I don't think the pivot for the pressure-roller carrier is ever going to need the "brace" mod.

Eddie, the motor is 110 vdc, shunt wound, 4000 rpm and it looks to have an epicyclic reduction gearbox.
The rheostat may have been changed, as it's 'made in Japan' and it offers only a 90 degree of rotation, which is not correct.

@Robert Mullins - I see in another NBC thread you like these, maybe I should tempt you with free delivery, next time I'm going West?

 

[500e]

I noticed the relay with the RS logo on, must be 'relatively' new because they were RadioSpares in them days

I did have a look at rswww.com to see if the number was still relevant, it wasn't which is a bit sad, I was expecting them to still carry it. They probably do but with a different part number.

Any ideas what the middle one is ?

Brilliant project though. The quality of the metalwork really puts the modern tin can Chinese stuff to shame.

Ring Tech help they usually can help
Think this is a good No 08458509922

 

[ranchero]

sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this. just pulled the relay on mine. sorry no markings on it whatsoever it is the same in appearance to the black one next to it except it is 3" long. my machine will still work with this relay removed so i think it's the spot weld timer. i can't check that as it's never worked on mine

 

[a111r]

Thanks for checking that relay's function, ranchero.
Shame about your manual scan going AWOL on here...

So without any onward steer, I think I'll strip the motor down, looking for any signs of insulation or brush failure.
I'm well out of my MIG comfort zone here, with a 110 volt dc motor.

Edit: Applying logic and experience, I should check out and clean up the 101 screw terminals used throughout, first.

 

[a111r]

sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this. just pulled the relay on mine. sorry no markings on it whatsoever it is the same in appearance to the black one next to it except it is 3" long. my machine will still work with this relay removed so i think it's the spot weld timer. i can't check that as it's never worked on mine

Just had another play around with it. My spot timer is controlled by the relay missing its case, next to the empty space.
My three relay sockets have 8 pins but the missing one has 11. So to be known as the 'Spinal Tap' relay.. maybe one of these?

Job RS 348-829 11 Pin Relay 24v DC 475 Ohm Coil for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Job RS 348-829 11 Pin Relay 24v DC 475 Ohm Coil at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Or it could be a bigger one, as you mention, about 3" long:

RS Components 346-744 DPCO Latching Relay 10a 24vdc Coil 11 Pin for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RS Components 346-744 DPCO Latching Relay 10a 24vdc Coil 11 Pin at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

I remade a few connections that had oxidised up. Somehow, I let the smoke out of the original diode bridge, so I replaced it with an RS silicon bridge, like the other one that can be seen above.

 

[ranchero]

same size as the bigger one. as the cover is black i have no idea whats inside it. i know a retired electrical engineer when i see him i will ask him if he can identify its function

 

[Nick DV]

.........................I'll clean it out soon, though.

For a welder that old, it looks pretty clean as it is!

 

[ranchero]

i have now scanned the entire manual and sent it to Malcolm if you send me your email address i will send it to you