New roll, amazing!

[Hood]

Thats a nice box Hood, its going way beyond budget though i think, add on a torch and work lead as they don't come with, and i'm nearly at £3k !

EWM Picomig 180 Puls I see for £2100 or so, you reckon a torch and earth lead would cost £900 ? Prices on line are usually negotiable, maybe a lot, maybe very little and occasionally not at all but you never know until you try.

You mentioned you wanted to do Alu so that is why I suggested the EWM Puls as in reality, or at least my reality, welding Alu with a normal Mig is for 3mm upwards, with pulse you can go way down, so depends what thickness of Alu you are talking about. As I said previously people do weld thin Alu with standard Mig but they are not in spray transfer and things get messy in the surroundings and one thing I have learned, Alu spatter does not bounce off clothes and skin like steel spatter does

I have never used pulse on steel or stainless yet as I don't use Mig for it but seemingly it is nice, time will tell as I intend to try out some stainless seeing as I was given a few rolls of flux core, just need to invest in some gas.



Edit
just seen a Picomig 180 Puls advertised with torch, work lead and reg for £2220 but as said most places have a bit of come and go on prices, sometimes very little, sometimes a bit more.

 

[Davek0974]

EWM Picomig 180 Puls I see for £2100 or so, you reckon a torch and earth lead would cost £900 ? Prices on line are usually negotiable, maybe a lot, maybe very little and occasionally not at all but you never know until you try.

You mentioned you wanted to do Alu so that is why I suggested the EWM Puls as in reality, or at least my reality, welding Alu with a normal Mig is for 3mm upwards, with pulse you can go way down, so depends what thickness of Alu you are talking about. As I said previously people do weld thin Alu with standard Mig but they are not in spray transfer and things get messy in the surroundings and one thing I have learned, Alu spatter does not bounce off clothes and skin like steel spatter does

I have never used pulse on steel or stainless yet as I don't use Mig for it but seemingly it is nice, time will tell as I intend to try out some stainless seeing as I was given a few rolls of flux core, just need to invest in some gas.



Edit
just seen a Picomig 180 Puls advertised with torch, work lead and reg for £2220 but as said most places have a bit of come and go on prices, sometimes very little, sometimes a bit more.

Any chance you can let me know where you saw the 180 for that price, i must admit that the price i saw was just the first place i went to so no research there really, I could probably go £2220 if as you say its the dogs Removed

I have seen your pulse results and they are stunning for mig on Alu, i guess it will need a push torch though? How are spares on EWM - costly or average, i'm used to getting tips at 10 for a fiver and 5 shrouds for a tenner!

You say you were going to try stainless on flux core but still need gas?? I thought cored wire replaced the gas?

 

[normspanners]

you can test the feed by gripping the wire as it comes out of the tip between your fingers and put some load on it.

 

[Davek0974]

Yep, i'm going out now, check over, test everything i can then most likely give up

 

[Hood]

Any chance you can let me know where you saw the 180 for that price, i must admit that the price i saw was just the first place i went to so no research there really, I could probably go £2220 if as you say its the dogs bo*lox

I saw it here http://www.westcoweld.co.uk/welding...ers/ewm-picomig-180-pluse-mig-welding-machine

May also be worth giving @Jim Davey ( https://shop.rhdaveywelding.co.uk/SyrinxCWO/product/product/1280?CategoryID=4) a message as he may well manage to do a deal, that is who I bought my second hand EWM from.

i guess it will need a push torch though?

It is nice for the work I do, big stuff and often a fair distance away from the welder but they are over £1k new so ...... For normal bench type work then a standard 4m torch works well especially with a machine that has a 4 roll feed. I welded for Alu years with a normal 4m torch but you had to be mindful of the bending of the torch, just a bit too much and oops. Having said that my welders were just 2 roll and were not pulse.

How are spares on EWM - costly or average, i'm used to getting tips at 10 for a fiver and 5 shrouds for a tenner!

No idea, my push/pull is Binzel so it uses standard spares, no idea what the standard EWM torch is, could well also be Binzel but maybe @Jim Davey will jump in and say.

You say you were going to try stainless on flux core but still need gas?? I thought cored wire replaced the gas?

Yes this is not the gasless type of flux core, it is for high integrity welds and the flux, as well as producing a shield will produce a slag over the weld much like stick welding does. A shielding gas however is still required. The stuff I have can seemingly use straight CO2 or an argon mix but sadly still needs the active gas, I presume for wetting, so the pure Argon I use for all my other welding (Mig Alu and all Tig) is no use.

 

[Hood]

Also not actually sure what the difference is between the Picomig 180 puls and the picomig 185 puls, surely not just 5 amp top end? @Jim Davey ?

 

[Davek0974]

Ok, i have tested the wire feed with torch against the bench (gas off and lead unplugged) and there is no way this feed will stop, you can practically push the wire through the bench So i don't 'think' its a WF issue, unless it only shows when under arc power.

I stuck the camera in the visor and did a video of some tacks, here's the link...

The LAST tack highlights what happens i think, you can see it arcs, spits, spatters badly whereas the previous ones seem ok.

Its a poor video, apologies, all the action is in the top 5mm of the picture.

 

[Jim Davey]

Also not actually sure what the difference is between the Picomig 180 puls and the picomig 185 puls, surely not just 5 amp top end? @Jim Davey ?

They are actually the same power output, both 180 amp but the 185 comes in a bigger casing allowing it to take a full size 300mm spool hence the D3 in the full model name. It also features the later drive system. It's a good machine, that would be great if they could squeeze another 20-40 amps from but I believe they are working on improving the power.

 

[Davek0974]

Well, i had one job to do today, 4 welds 20mm long.

Expecting trouble, i even made a few tacks on scrap immediately before the work tacks and the result?

Probably the absolute worst mess i have ever created Both tacks spattered a bit, then when starting each of the 4 welds i got a couple of seconds of spattery arcing before the weld started proper - result = spending 25minutes with a grinder and a file getting all the junk off the job and trying to cover up the mess. Luckily its powder-coated so will look ok in the end.

So, whatever it is, its getting worse, where it is now, i would say its not worth using on a job.

Does the last tack in the video mean anything anyone?

I think the fact that its worse on 0.8mm than on 0.6mm mm may indicate that its a PSU issue as its working harder?

 

[Hood]

They are actually the same power output, both 180 amp but the 185 comes in a bigger casing allowing it to take a full size 300mm spool hence the D3 in the full model name. It also features the later drive system. It's a good machine, that would be great if they could squeeze another 20-40 amps from but I believe they are working on improving the power.

Ah OK, didn't study the specs too much. Yes saw that regarding the current, would be nice especially if it took it to 220 or more.

 

[Hood]

Well, i had one job to do today, 4 welds 20mm long.

Expecting trouble, i even made a few tacks on scrap immediately before the work tacks and the result?

Probably the absolute worst mess i have ever created Both tacks spattered a bit, then when starting each of the 4 welds i got a couple of seconds of spattery arcing before the weld started proper - result = spending 25minutes with a grinder and a file getting all the junk off the job and trying to cover up the mess. Luckily its powder-coated so will look ok in the end.

So, whatever it is, its getting worse, where it is now, i would say its not worth using on a job.

Does the last tack in the video mean anything anyone?

I think the fact that its worse on 0.8mm than on 0.6mm mm may indicate that its a PSU issue as its working harder?

Yes certainly looks like it may be a power issue, might not be much though and a cheap fix. If you are really stuck and can't get a stand in whilst getting fixed I could give you a loan of the mts255 . you would need to pay the carriage though as I am not that generous

 

[Davek0974]

Thanks Hood, I'll ring R-Tech Monday and sort out an RTB on it, chances are i'll get it fixed and sell it on.

Luckily it's pretty quiet here at this time of year, holidays = no garden stuff being bought, so if they can do a 5 day turnaround i should be ok.

As to a new unit, i'm totally unsure. I like the look of the Esab Rebel, it seems to fit my uses I think. The EWM 180 is likely overkill for my work and skill level, the lincoln I'm not too bothered about , it seems good and I know the brand is respected but the Esab still appeals to me more.

I cant find any negative reviews on any of these units, there are no english videos of the EWM unit that i can find though which is a pity, I like to see results before i buy especially when dropping this sort of cash.

So which way would you lean if you were not sold on the EWM - this does seem to fit your workload well so is a good match it seems, but for my more 'agricultural' style of work is it likely to bring much to the table?

As i said earlier, buying a car is an easier choice !

 

[Hood]

The picomig would be too small for me, I need something capable of doing heavy ALU and 180 amps is not enough, I would guess 5 or possibly 6mm would be its max.

I was considering the rebel before I got the MTS but again a bit on the small side. The EWM Phoenix I have is 330amps.

If wanting to do ALU then the EWM would be a good choice, if only very occasional ALU then maybe the rebel would be better. Don't think the rebel does tig though, think the EWM will although not looked at specs.

 

[Hood]

Just looked, the rebel does do tig.

 

[Davek0974]

Yes, the Alu would i think be occasional stuff, possibly more stainless but still mostly mild steel. 5mm is plenty for my market, don't have the power supply for more anyway.

in the videos the Esab did look very competent at both Mig and Lift-Tig, i was most impressed with guy that did a very respectable weld bead at the bottom of a sharp "V" joint using the sMig setting and 1-1/4" stickout !! No twiddling, no messing just set and weld.

I think the EWM would be good if i were doing it 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but for a home-shop mini-business its going to be very much under-used for the money.

Think i'm leaning towards the Rebel, but as i said i'll get the R-Tech on an RTB as i can't sell it like it is, might order myself an Esab in the mean-time though

Thanks for the offers of loaners etc, much appreciated.

 

[Jim Davey]

The EWM does tig with downslope and postflow function.

 

[Davek0974]

Thanks Jim, i was just replying to your PM

My main concern is that the EWM is overkill for my needs - possibly too complex and have a lot of functions i'll never use. The cost is also a factor of course - this is a home business that makes stuff for the garden so mostly just bog-standard Mig on 0.6 and 0.8 wire, i might want to play with stainless and Alu at some time though but not as much as you cant make fire-pits or basket brackets from Alu and stainless costs a lot more. Its a very tough decision but i think at my skill and use level the Esab may be a better match?

 

[Hood]

I think pulse mig would be nice on steel and stainless but the biggest problem with any mig is the different gas required for each material. If doing lots of work on different materials day in day out then it is not an issue but if like me most of the stainless or steel you are doing is better done with stick then it is expensive, and also takes up valuable space, to have 3 different gasses.

What suits one person won't suit the next, so just have to weigh up what is best for you and go with that I suppose.

 

[Davek0974]

Yep gases are a pain, why i stick to steel really, I could keep the BOC for steel and maybe go rental free on the Argon, or may even ditch BOC on the next refill as the rental-free stuff is cheaper all-round now -was not so back when i set up the BOC option.

Having seen some of the results people on here in the Esab forum and on youtube are getting with the Rebel straight out of the box with no twiddling, I would be totally chuffed if it did the same for me! Compared to what i have been getting for the last 6-9 months they look perfect and thats just by clicking the sMig setting, choosing wire size, plate thickness and pressing go!

 

[Hood]

Yes that is the beauty of a good synergic machine and usually you can even tweak a bit more to make it more suited to your needs, I certainly have with the EWM.
The other great thing is once set to your desired preferences then just adjusting the wire feed will vary it for different thicknesses giving the perfect conditions.
As an example I was welding inside the bow of an Alu Catamaran a few weeks back, I used the EWM and it was excellent. Few days later they found more that was needed doing, so as it was not too much I decided the MTS would do as it is smaller and lighter to haul to the slipway and lift onto the boats foredeck. Bad mistake, it was more work as I was constantly having to climb out and in the hull to adjust voltages for the varying thicknesses, ended up expending 4 times the energy than I would have if I had taken the EWM.
The MTS does have synergic settings, not sure how they work on steel as I have never tried but they are not good for Alu, so I only ever use it in manual mode. It does well in manual but once you have used a good synergic machine, especially a pulse one you will prefer to stick with it