Riello oil burner playing up

[julianf]

Thanks for the help. I have the parts ready to pick up tomorrow. Paid a little more than I would like if I had more time but not too much.

One question. What size pressure gauge do I need? I will try to pick one up tomorrow too. I see BES seem to have a couple.

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order oil pressure gauges from our gas and plumbing supplies range online at BES. Free next day delivery available. 15k+ Products in stock. P/N: 18582

www.bes.co.uk

But....

To be sure, you need to still have the hexagonal brass extender fitted to the pump bleed.

If youve been bleeding direct on the square black lump (the pump body) its not fitted, but if youve been bleeding from the end of a brass hexagonal thing, its there.

Without the extension thing, you dont have the clearance to rotate the gauge to screw it in to place.

 

[julianf]

I thought i had a photo on my phone somwhere, and ive found it for you, but its not exactly informative.

You can, however, see that, without the extender (the end of which you can just see a slither of), you would never be able to screw the gauge in place -

 

[reb78]

Thanks! I have the extender. I will see if I can get one of the gauges locally. If not will get one on order

 

[julianf]

you can get a, kind of, average with a non-filled gauge, but the needle does jump about a fair bit

 

[Onoff]

Page 3 of that link where I documented my oil boiler repair journey, documents fitting the pressure gauge. One of these:

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order oil pressure gauges from our gas and plumbing supplies range online at BES. Free next day delivery available. 15k+ Products in stock. P/N: 18582

www.bes.co.uk

I will say that I fitted a pump and that didn't cure it. It ended up being the bearings.

 

[reb78]

Thanks for that Onoff. I will have another read.

Well. I have the pump but cant get a pressure gauge locally. It looks like it comes preset to 8 bar, so can I fit it amd run it and check the pressure when the gauge arrives or should I wait?

 

[Mikes]

Be careful with oil pumps. a common fault is for people to use the pressure adjusting screw as a bleed and thereby cocking-up the setting. Been out to quite a few in the past where the owners have let the tank run dry, had a delivery of oil and then mistakenly try to bleed the pump. Easy fix for the man with the pressure gauge!

 

[julianf]

Thanks for that Onoff. I will have another read.

Well. I have the pump but cant get a pressure gauge locally. It looks like it comes preset to 8 bar, so can I fit it amd run it and check the pressure when the gauge arrives or should I wait?

The manual will give you a table of kw outputs available from your unit, which are selected by changing the jet and pressure on the pump.

8bar will be spot on for some jet sizes but lower than it should be for others.

But...

We are not talking anything that will break your boiler with a minor error. Indeed, you need more than a pressure gauge to properly tune a boiler anyway (ie flue gas analyser) so, if you're jet needs 8bar then, in truth, I don't actually think the pressure gauge will do you all that much good anyway (ie if it's preset to the correct ish level and you're concerned about getting it spot on, then you would be wasting your time, as there are other factors to take care of anyway, that you'll never get exact without an analyser)

If your unit has a jet fitted that requires a higher pressure then you will need a guage.

 

[Onoff]

Thanks for that Onoff. I will have another read.

Well. I have the pump but cant get a pressure gauge locally. It looks like it comes preset to 8 bar, so can I fit it amd run it and check the pressure when the gauge arrives or should I wait?

It should but mine was actually set to nearer 9bar and had been since I fitted it some time previous with no way to check the pressure as in no gauge. As in don't trust it to be exactly preset. I'd fit then adjust in a couple of days when you get the gauge.

 

[Onoff]

Don't know if this will assist:

 

[reb78]

Thanks everyone.

So, when checking the documentation with the boiler for the nozzle pressures, I think someone has fitted an incorrect nozzle in the past (which I have replaced like for like as I assumed it was correct as it was all working until very recently). The nozzle fitted now and previously was a 0.75/80 (needs 9.5 bar but that's for the next size up boiler a 90/120) and for this boiler (a 70/90), the nozzle options are 0.6/60 (8.5 bar), 0.75/60 (7 or 9 bar depending on output).

Wondering if I need to get someone in now really...

ETA - posted as Onoff put the charts up although my manual suggests an 80 degree nozzle for the 90/120 but the same for the 70/90 as above.

 

[reb78]

One of my other manuals suggests that the 80 degree nozzle can be used 'In case of flame detachment, during ignitions at low temperatures.' So, perhaps this is why this nozzle is in there? The boiler is outside on a north facing wall. What pressure would you set that at in that case? Or would you switch to a 0.75/60 EH? My settings manual is as below but it doesnt list the 80 degree nozzle for the 70/90:

Pressure gauge is on order.

 

[Onoff]

I can look when home at what nozzle I took out what I was having issues as I kept it. It likely wasn't that. Can't for the life of me recall what the new one was I put in. I may have a Wolsey receipt for it...

 

[julianf]

The shots posted by onoff only show solid cone nozzels.

In my (limited) experience, lower output units basically always use hollow cone, swapping to solid cone as the exchangers get larger.

The E bit of the designator is kerosene only, probably "E"nviromental or somthing (noone ever seems to know) but the H is hollow, and S is solid.

I would suggest keeping with exactly what you have been using, and not go altering anything until you have a working setup again. At that point, i would still think that an EH nozzel will be the recommendation.

 

[brightspark]

bleed the pump and l;eave the line from the pump to the jet off and start it up . no back pressure in the line that way

 

[julianf]

as i mentioned prior, if you shine a torch on the photosensor, you can get the pump to keep spinning without ignition.

it would be foolish to do this dry, but, for an extended bleed, it would be fine to just get out the last of the frothy stuff from the pipes

(the bleed screw should not show bubbling froth when bleeding, it should show running kerosene - temptation is to treat the froth as done, when really its not)

 

[reb78]

as i mentioned prior, if you shine a torch on the photosensor, you can get the pump to keep spinning without ignition.

it would be foolish to do this dry, but, for an extended bleed, it would be fine to just get out the last of the frothy stuff from the pipes

(the bleed screw should not show bubbling froth when bleeding, it should show running kerosene - temptation is to treat the froth as done, when really its not)

I did that yesterday Julian - I think it is bled - had a solid (not frothy flow) coming out of the bleed screw. It seems to gravity bleed without anything on too

 

[julianf]

sorry, round in circles! : )

 

[julianf]

for comparison, on page 7 of this document (the doc for my unit) -

https://www.grantuk.com/media/1283/grant-vortex-pro-kitchen-utility-system-bh-installer-user-doc-0037-rev-191-april-2017.pdf

the nozzles and pressures are listed

its not a perfect comparison, as the burners change, but you can see that, in the 4th column (nozzel) the swap from solid to hollow takes place above 36kw - but more than where the swap is, its very clear on the list that the lower output units all run on hollow cone, and the higher on solid.

Regardless, if it was working before on the jet you had fitted then its not the jet thats an issue. Changing anything from a known good value when troublshooting is going to cause bother. I would suggest getting it running before worrying about changing specific settings (that it was running fine on before)

 

[reb78]

for comparison, on page 7 of this document (the doc for my unit) -

https://www.grantuk.com/media/1283/grant-vortex-pro-kitchen-utility-system-bh-installer-user-doc-0037-rev-191-april-2017.pdf

the nozzles and pressures are listed

its not a perfect comparison, as the burners change, but you can see that, in the 4th column (nozzel) the swap from solid to hollow takes place above 36kw - but more than where the swap is, its very clear on the list that the lower output units all run on hollow cone, and the higher on solid.

Regardless, if it was working before on the jet you had fitted then its not the jet thats an issue. Changing anything from a known good value when troublshooting is going to cause bother. I would suggest getting it running before worrying about changing specific settings (that it was running fine on before)

I guess my issue is that I dont know what pressure to put the pump at as one isnt stated for that nozzle on the 70/90 as the nozzle on it is the one on the 90/120? Does that make sense? Or do I just run with the pressure for the nozzle on the 90/120 unit (i.e. is it nozzle specific)

Agree that getting it burnign first is probably the main thing (I am desperately hoping that the pump will fix it) but havent had chance to do anything other than pick up parts today.