No I’m not asking about numbering but how over time they changed how they displayed the number on the mechanics vices
ie in chronological order for say a number one vice
1
1.
No1
NO1
- Thread starter MattF
- Start date
ie in chronological order for say a number one vice
1
1.
No1
NO1
SteveB58
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One item I wish I'd been able to keep while an apprentice was a cannon. I spent 2 years in what was called the school learning the basics of hand tool fitting, using lathes, mills, grinders, ICE, steam machinery, gas turbines, hydraulics, refrigeration et al and the next two years out and about moving through different dockyard shops making nuisances of ourselves. During these two years we were guided by a host fitter who instructed us for an extra £5 a week. While in the weapons shop my fitter had a side line. He would go through the skips at HMS Victory looking for the large copper rivets which were about 10 inches long and just over an inch diameter. Somehow he'd sourced a puka drawing of an 18th century cannon which he'd scaled down so that one could be made from one of these rivets. So when things were quiet and the chargeman was away I'd be given rivet and drawing and make a cannon barrel on the lathe. A carriage was made by a shipwright and the resulting cannon was sold. I think I got a pound or so for each one I made, what he sold them for I don't remember.
merry xmas to all here
ive been meaning to getting around putting new jaw plates on the unicorn as the originals were broken into several rusty pieces, the original screws came out easily
so was looking for some screws to fit and was a bit surprised to find they were M5 slow taper csk, these do appear to be original as they fitted the slow taper of the csk in the jaw plates
does this shed light on the country of origin of the unicorn?
Question for 25.4_mechanic was this a thread used in Germany at the time say around 1880 to 1910?
ive been meaning to getting around putting new jaw plates on the unicorn as the originals were broken into several rusty pieces, the original screws came out easily
so was looking for some screws to fit and was a bit surprised to find they were M5 slow taper csk, these do appear to be original as they fitted the slow taper of the csk in the jaw plates
does this shed light on the country of origin of the unicorn?
Question for 25.4_mechanic was this a thread used in Germany at the time say around 1880 to 1910?
StevieO
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Hi Ranger,
BS ISO 68-1
I have been involved in British Standards (at Chiswick, London), CEN standards within Europe and ISO standards internationally. I was the chairman of several BS standards sub-committees and represented the UK at CEN and ISO meetings for over 37 years.
ISO 68-1 is the ISO standard covering M5 threads but I cannot trace the date of the first issue.
The standards itself cites the first edition as 1998 but that is impossible with a number as low as 68 - that's an early standard.
However, ISO was established in 1947 and the first standards were not released until 1951-2.
68 is a low number so I guess quite early.
But the basis of an ISO is usually brought about by member states introducing a Draft ISO (often based on National standards).
The Normative References in this standard usually refer to supporting standards but not the origins for the draft.
My own guess is they came out of DIN (German Industrial Standards) standards in Germany and made their way into an ISO and later EN (European Norme).
The Germans are massively active in all ISO standards (of course to ensure that their DIN standards are normalised worldwide... you see... they still want world domination LOL).
DIN ISO 68-1 is of course identical. Latest release 1998 amended in 2020 (currently under revision under the ten year rule). So DIN mirrors ISO.
It would need some digging into old DIN standards to establish the ones used in the draft. This would at least give a start date that might give you a earliest date for that thread in the vice.
About as much as I can contribute Ranger.
And............
A very Merry Christmas to all our forum.
Ps....... Current fave below
Currently £37 online and Bloody Gorgeous!
BS ISO 68-1
I have been involved in British Standards (at Chiswick, London), CEN standards within Europe and ISO standards internationally. I was the chairman of several BS standards sub-committees and represented the UK at CEN and ISO meetings for over 37 years.
ISO 68-1 is the ISO standard covering M5 threads but I cannot trace the date of the first issue.
The standards itself cites the first edition as 1998 but that is impossible with a number as low as 68 - that's an early standard.
However, ISO was established in 1947 and the first standards were not released until 1951-2.
68 is a low number so I guess quite early.
But the basis of an ISO is usually brought about by member states introducing a Draft ISO (often based on National standards).
The Normative References in this standard usually refer to supporting standards but not the origins for the draft.
My own guess is they came out of DIN (German Industrial Standards) standards in Germany and made their way into an ISO and later EN (European Norme).
The Germans are massively active in all ISO standards (of course to ensure that their DIN standards are normalised worldwide... you see... they still want world domination LOL).
DIN ISO 68-1 is of course identical. Latest release 1998 amended in 2020 (currently under revision under the ten year rule). So DIN mirrors ISO.
It would need some digging into old DIN standards to establish the ones used in the draft. This would at least give a start date that might give you a earliest date for that thread in the vice.
About as much as I can contribute Ranger.
And............
A very Merry Christmas to all our forum.
Ps....... Current fave below
Currently £37 online and Bloody Gorgeous!
Last edited:
Arc Tourist
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A Merry Christmas to all of the Viceaholics and Members on our great forum. 
SteveB58
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Interesting. How binding are BS regs? When working for the RN all bolts had to have no more than 2 threads over the top of the nut. If this was ever questioned we were told it was due to BS. However, I then worked for a company exporting diesel generators and you had to have a complete nuts width of thread over the nut, again I was told it was BS. So are British Standards a moveable feast or just a bogey man to frighten the children?Hi Ranger,
BS ISO 68-1
I have been involved in British Standards (at Chiswick, London), CEN standards within Europe and ISO standards internationally. I was the chairman of several BS standards sub-committees and represented the UK at CEN and ISO meetings for over 37 years.
ISO 68-1 is the ISO standard covering M5 threads but I cannot trace the date of the first issue.
The standards itself cites the first edition as 1998 but that is impossible with a number as low as 68 - that's an early standard.
However, ISO was established in 1947 and the first standards were not released until 1951-2.
68 is a low number so I guess quite early.
But the basis of an ISO is usually brought about by member states introducing a Draft ISO (often based on National standards).
The Normative References in this standard usually refer to supporting standards but not the origins for the draft.
My own guess is they came out of DIN (German Industrial Standards) standards in Germany and made their way into an ISO and later EN (European Norme).
The Germans are massively active in all ISO standards (of course to ensure that their DIN standards are normalised worldwide... you see... they still want world domination LOL).
DIN ISO 68-1 is of course identical. Latest release 1998 amended in 2020 (currently under revision under the ten year rule). So DIN mirrors ISO.
It would need some digging into old DIN standards to establish the ones used in the draft. This would at least give a start date that might give you a earliest date for that thread in the vice.
About as much as I can contribute Ranger.
And............
A very Merry Christmas to all our forum.
View attachment 377796
Ps....... Current fave below
View attachment 377806
Currently £37 online and Bloody Gorgeous!
Scalarocco
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Unless they can quote you the British Standard they are talking about then they are talking BS. Also it is worth pointing out that it may be a specific requirement for a standard for diesel generators, but it doesn't mean that it applies to all other usages. It can start to confuse people who try to mix standards between applications and think that they apply to all scenarios.
StevieO
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Agree with Scalarocco. Many people quote BS to just get their own way on something, or just that "we always did it that way".
Interesting part is that British Standards can be created by anyone!!
You just need to
a) have an item or method you want to standardise
b) the subject must be of wider use to the UK
c) contact a member of the appropriate sub-committee at BS and get support for the idea
d) draft the standard for distribution and discussion and vote (it will be issued by the committee). At this point it is given a draft BS number.
e) It gets put to vote and if passed you have a British Standard with the number given earlier.
f) prepare to wait about 5 years for this....
The most frustrating thing about this process is that it is so slow.
I attended a joint BS/ISO meeting in Milan in 1986 where we appraised a draft standard for testing Plastic Ball Valves. At the meeting I proposed a swathe of proposals for the testing procedure, test conditions and format. It was a complete A-Z which was later taken up almost exactly by ISO as a full ISO standard. Took 5 years!!!! Committees met every year, chatted over this paragraph and that clause, put out to vote. Then the Swiss decided to change one word and it was re-issued for vote - another year lost!!! BS ISO CEN committees are sloths. If they were a business they would be bankrupt in months.
But hey ho.... you can make your own British Standard if you want to......
For your amusement.
I recall one meeting of ISO TC138/SC7 in Nyons, France in the late 90's. The attendees all spoke English - except the French who insisted on an interpreter.
The meeting was a fiasco as it was series translation, not simutaneous so we had a situation like this.
The chairman welcomed everyone to the meeting in English and thanked them for coming etc etc etc.
Then we waited for the translator to repeat, verbally, in French.
Then the meeting began and it went on this double question, double answer, double disagreement, double argument etc etc.
At one point the German DIN rep made an opinion on a technical point ----- and the French standards guy jumped up and started to argue that his suggestion was not possible for France... and the chairman stood up and kindly asked the Frenchman to sit down and wait for the translator to translate the Germans comments into French.............
All the French spoke English - but hey.... French language is sacrosanct!!!!!
I laughed my socks off!
SteveB58
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I was comparing like with like here, I have installed/replaced generators on HM ships. But it would seem that BS are in the main BS and mainly its all down to accepted practice.
Arc Tourist
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That's something different.
Arc Tourist
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They are a good quality vise, and desirable by those in the gunsmithing trade. Columbian also made an identical model to the later version of the Will-Burt, the ones with the shorter height jaws. Here's a photo of mine, which is known as a Gyro-Vise.
rosinante
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Hi , thanks for that, the one I am in the process of buying has deeper Jaws, it opens about 5 ins , the Jaws look to be about 3 inches wide , 5 ins deep ish .It has patent date of either 1929 or 1901, it has No1 cast on the side , will post up pics when I get it. What would it be worth ?hope I am not paying too much for it ,
Cheers
Arc Tourist
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They are sought after, and have been going for around the $125.oo > $ 200.oo price range in the past few years.
SteveB58
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I can recommend the Axminster vice, I've used one for a number of years when repairing guitars. I did file off all the sharpe edges to protect the job but that is pure personal preference. I also made wood and leather jaw protectors after reading this. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/ProductReviews/Tools/ParrotVise/parrotvise.html
Mines not permanently fixed to the bench and only comes out when needed, but it is a dependable, useful and reliable tool nonetheless.
Steve
Arc Tourist
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There was also a 90* degree adaptor to attach to the base for the Will-Burt vice's, so that the vise could be rotated forward or backward to increase its versatility. Rare to find an original cast iron one, but I have seen DIY versions. Not sure if they were also available for the Columbian models ?
Edit: Here's a screen shot of an adapter from a video.
Edit: Here's a screen shot of an adapter from a video.
