Sorting sill hole in van.

[bricol]

youve not allowed for acf 50 ,,,, cut a perfect patch , set it in perfectly , and the haz will rust from the inside out in three months ,,, if you dont treat the patch , or the parts beside it , it will be as bad as ever long before the next mot ,,,, waxol wont work ,, you need something non flamable so if you have to patch again in the area it wont turn into a fireball ,,,, I give 2 years warranty on everything i patch ,, joggle or cut and set in , thats on land rovers mostly , the only way I can do that is post weld treatment ,,, you cant just patch something and slap a bit of underseal on , not if its rusted from the inside out ,,,, many here know what I use , others have their choices but you need to be using something.

You're confusing "MOT pass" and "restore". You can indeed slap a patch on, slap some underseal over it, gain the pass - I've seen many MOT places do just that . . . and then they do it again next year . . .

When you own cars as long as I do, you don't tend to do "MOT pass" repairs - or hold any desire to do the same repair again - so a few years ago I was quite pleased to see repairs I'd done to the underside of a car that was 14 yrs old when I did them (car was from Sicily so I guess was never too far from sea salt) were still in excellent shape 15 yrs later - set in, painted, undersealed and dinitroled/waxoyled.

While I don't use it anymore much, as I have just about run out of the cheap 5ltr tins I bought 20 plus years ago, waxoyl is possibly not as bad as people seem to complain about.

I have a 1991 Peugeot 106 - they seem to rust for fun just about everywhere . . . mine has lived outside it's entire 25 yrs with me, used for off-road trials, used and abused on the back road commute for years - it was bought damaged from a rear ender - blew waxoyl in it in all directions from a pressurised pot, repeated when I remembered - and despite leak from the roof/side panel join in the rain gutters, its still pretty much original.

 

[HSGB]

Bricol, on my Connect there are rubber bungs all along the bottom of the outer cill, I don't know, about seven of them. Anyway, I have, probably about three times, sprayed waxoil and clean mineral oil mixture into these holes, with a proper Sealey, waxoil gun. Let me tell you, that now I have cut the inner-cill out a bit I can see through into the outer-sill cavity and it is all tacky with this semi-dried mixture, but it is totally devoid of any rust! I could not apply this method to the inner-cill as there are no openings to do such a thing and that is where all the rust is.

I am not wanting to get rid of this van, I have been collecting parts for it over the years, I have another, slightly later one, a Tourneo Connect, with the face-lift and I want to keep that as well as a lot of the parts are directly interchangeable between the vans. They are basically the same vans, bar a few slight component differences. Anyway, I do not want to do a so-called patch-up/ bodge-up on these vans so I am now going to have to try and sort it out in a decent manner. The waxoil that I have been putting in the outer sills is now going to cause me problems though as it is a messy business where welding is concerned.

I now have to think how to replace the rusted stuff and then protect the inner faces somehow. There seems to be a few ideas on this thread, stuff I have never personally used. I was wondering whether to put the verniers on the outer cill holes, get the diameter and drill two like holes on the inner-cills, order two rubber sill bungs from Ford and use them to inject something into the inner cill when the welding is finished.

 

[HSGB]

Tom2207, you reckon this acf 50 stuff is not inflammable even to the sort of heat welding produces? It says on the tin: contains petroleum distillate and mineral oil, that's what I get when I mix waxoil and mineral oil together.

 

[tom2207]

You're confusing "MOT pass" and "restore". You can indeed slap a patch on, slap some underseal over it, gain the pass - I've seen many MOT places do just that . . . and then they do it again next year . . .

When you own cars as long as I do, you don't tend to do "MOT pass" repairs - or hold any desire to do the same repair again - so a few years ago I was quite pleased to see repairs I'd done to the underside of a car that was 14 yrs old when I did them (car was from Sicily so I guess was never too far from sea salt) were still in excellent shape 15 yrs later - set in, painted, undersealed and dinitroled/waxoyled.

While I don't use it anymore much, as I have just about run out of the cheap 5ltr tins I bought 20 plus years ago, waxoyl is possibly not as bad as people seem to complain about.

I have a 1991 Peugeot 106 - they seem to rust for fun just about everywhere . . . mine has lived outside it's entire 25 yrs with me, used for off-road trials, used and abused on the back road commute for years - it was bought damaged from a rear ender - blew waxoyl in it in all directions from a pressurised pot, repeated when I remembered - and despite leak from the roof/side panel join in the rain gutters, its still pretty much original.

not confusing anything ,, Northern Ireland mot is geared to stop exactly that ,, clean for retest ,,, if you can get in before the test you can do that ,,,, I dont do that , theres a load of polish guys down the road who will do that for you though ,,, I earn more in a day than they do in a week ,,, I dont do nappy patches .

Waxol changed its formula a few years ago , Ive seen many many cases where is done more harm than good .

 

[HSGB]

Waxoil changed its formula a few years ago , Ive seen many many cases where is done more harm than good.

Most things have changed, I'm afraid, the active ingredient from hammerite was removed by the E.U., the very ingredient that made it what it was; they did the same with Nitromors. I used to be able to strip a motocross frame with a capful of Nitromors, a wire cup brush on a drill, in about an hour, complete, ready for priming. It wouldn't take the skin off a rice pudding now. Rattle cans used to be good paint,and resistant to petrol, diesel, heat and solvents, total waste of time now, if you don't use 2k of some sort then you may as well not bother.

I cannot argue with what I have just seen in my sills though, the waxoil and mineral oil mix I have been putting in there has stopped them rusting, unlike the inner, whch I couldn't access.

On a side-note, If anyone has any woodwork on the exterior of their houses, that they paint, then I should get a few tins as they are coming for solvent based, exterior gloss next.

 

[HSGB]

I have found, sandwiched in between the skins of the sill, a huge piece of rubber and plastic that is wrapped around, what I now think is the housing for the side door, bottom runner to sit in, when the door is closed. This large metal obstruction doesn't appear on vans with no sliding side doors.

I am at a loss as to how to weld when right undernweath, and sandwiched in between the cill, is all this rubber and plastic and it cannot be removed.



This is looking vertically upward into the cill cavity, from below and this large chunk of rubber and plastc jammed in there.

 

[GRW]

I have found, sandwiched in between the skins of the sill, a huge piece of rubber and plastic that is wrapped around, what I now think is the housing for the side door, bottom runner to sit in, when the door is closed. This large metal obstruction doesn't appear on vans with no sliding side doors.

I am at a loss as to how to weld when right undernweath, and sandwiched in between the cill, is all this rubber and plastic and it cannot be removed.



This is looking vertically upward into the cill cavity, from below and this large chunk of rubber and plastc jammed in there.

I think you need to cut away the rusty metal above first.... but after that, I think you can get away with welding over this - but you'd have to "tack and move" so that you don't get too much heat in any one area. I.e. tack then do your next tack as far away from the first as you can, and just keep tacking and moving until you have an unbroken "seam" weld.
(Of course you can also "rest" between a series of tacks, to allow any heat buikd-up to dissipate).

 

[Bryan Williams]

I think you need to cut away the rusty metal above first.... but after that, I think you can get away with welding over this - but you'd have to "tack and move" so that you don't get too much heat in any one area. I.e. tack then do your next tack as far away from the first as you can, and just keep tacking and moving until you have an unbroken "seam" weld.
(Of course you can also "rest" between a series of tacks, to allow any heat buikd-up to dissipate).

Can't you slip some flattened copper pipe behind as well as a kind of heat sink?

 

[Dcal]

I have found, sandwiched in between the skins of the sill, a huge piece of rubber and plastic that is wrapped around, what I now think is the housing for the side door, bottom runner to sit in, when the door is closed. This large metal obstruction doesn't appear on vans with no sliding side doors.

I am at a loss as to how to weld when right undernweath, and sandwiched in between the cill, is all this rubber and plastic and it cannot be removed.



This is looking vertically upward into the cill cavity, from below and this large chunk of rubber and plastc jammed in there.

Can you give us a bit more info?

If there is a bit of plastic sandwiched in you won't be able to weld it without damaging the plastic.

For example -
What is the plastic doing?
Is the plastic required?
How is the plastic fixed?
Can you remove the plastic, weld it and then replace it?
Can you remove the plastic and forget about it?
Have you any photos of the arrangement?

 

[tom2207]

has to either come out or be worked round ,,, is there a bent bracket on the door with the lower runners on , maybe it comes off , then the plastic pops out of the way to let you repair the metal ,,,,, they did it ,,, so you can redo it , granted it will be a fuss but it will be doable ,,

 

[Keithmac]

I started my Golf chassis repairs a few weeks back, amazing what underseal can hide!.

If it didn't have so much sentimental value it would be off to the scrap yard!.

Bought it's weight in repair panels but got rained off today (Sunday).

As said there's 2 types of repair, patch it and scarper or do it right.

Mine will have Dynax-S50 injected afterwards (if it ever gets finished!).

 

[T5 TDI]

This was my Transporter T5. You can't buy an N/S outer sill. You can easily get the O/S and use just the centre section but the ends would have been probably beyond my skills to make. In the end I used a salvage body cut (hence the colour!) It was nice and thick for a car/van panel, much better than the thin repair panels. I measured it at 1.4 mm with paint compared with the 0.9 mm or less of the repair panels. The match of a hand cut salvage sill with my hand cut cutting out made it harder to butt weld though.

 

[8ob]

Am having to get my new welder out (that I have hardly ever used) and start doing something I haven't done in a long time.

I just wanted opinions from anyone as to where you would try and attach the plate on this, it is about 4" long. Any advice much appreciated, cheers.

I reckon you should slap a patch on that ,gag it in goo and get another year out of it, if you are still feeling the love for it in a years time do a proper job.

Bob

 

[GRW]

I started my Golf chassis repairs a few weeks back, amazing what underseal can hide!.

If it didn't have so much sentimental value it would be off to the scrap yard!.

Bought it's weight in repair panels but got rained off today (Sunday).

As said there's 2 types of repair, patch it and scarper or do it right.

Mine will have Dynax-S50 injected afterwards (if it ever gets finished!).

View attachment 369627

View attachment 369628

That's got some deep and serious Tin Weevil

 

[HSGB]

This is the sliding door runner, when the door is closed it goes straight through all the skins of the cills and into a housing under the van.



This is the said housing, under the van. It has a bash-plate on the bottom. This is the source of all the water ingress as it is not sealed in any way. Water just sits on top and weeps straight down into the cill cavity and then supposedly passes straight through and out the drains, along the bottom edge of the cills. Anyway and as expected, that idea hasn't worked and instead my inner cill has been collecting the water.



This is the large rubber/ plastic thing wrapped around the housing as it passes through the side of van, don't know what it is or its puropse. Cannot be removed, will have to try as mentioned and work very slowly around it. I also have a heat retardent mat that I use for lead-burning that I can put up in there to help keep the heat off it. As mentioned this is the source of all this water ingress as the top is totally unsealed and creates a direct path into the body of the van. What the hell are these people thinking when they design these vehicles? More to the point, I have to now think about how I am going to stop all this water collecting on the top and running down into the body, between the panels.

KeithMac & T5 TDI, your problems make mine look like an irrelevance.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

What the hell are these people thinking when they design these vehicles?

Planned obsolescence.

 

[Keithmac]

That's got some deep and serious Tin Weevil

Yeh it's a financially unviable repair, but I've owned it over 20 years now and it deserves fixing.

I am a bit odd in that respect, I've seen it as a challenge and see any tools brought to fix it as an investment (which is good because I've spent a bloomin fortune . )

 

[T5 TDI]

Yeh it's a financially unviable repair, but I've owned it over 20 years now and it deserves fixing.

I am a bit odd in that respect, I've seen it as a challenge and see any tools brought to fix it as an investment (which is good because I've spent a bloomin fortune . )

Similar here in that mine will be19 years old next year and I have had it since new so it I do care about the poor old thing. I already had my old Clarke welder which I had converted to use gas but I think I did spent about £500 in total on the job. It went on gas, wire, liner, tips etc, Plus the salvage panel itself (£120!) discs and other stuff. But the van is worth it to me and it's only got about 120k on it so now it's done I could probably could get £4000 for it. I have cut out all the rust and the inner sill was fine so I'm happy with it. I should say that the other side is perfect because the rot on the N/S was the result of a crushed/hurriedly repaired sill years ago which rotted out. Good luck with yours Keith, I did actually enjoy doing mine in a sort of masochistic way.

 

[GRW]

Yeh it's a financially unviable repair, but I've owned it over 20 years now and it deserves fixing.

I am a bit odd in that respect, I've seen it as a challenge and see any tools brought to fix it as an investment (which is good because I've spent a bloomin fortune . )

I'm no better. I have a 22yo LDV Convoy that I've owned for 10-years. It's "agricultural", the steering wheel is more of a vague suggestion of "thattaway", it leaks, its loud, it rattles.... and I'm irrationally fond of the old crate.
It's doing its best to dissolve faster than I can weld new sections in (or so it seems at times)... and I'm fighting a losing battle - but I'm still doing it.

 

[tom2207]

I'm no better. I have a 22yo LDV Convoy that I've owned for 10-years. It's "agricultural", the steering wheel is more of a vague suggestion of "thattaway", it leaks, its loud, it rattles.... and I'm irrationally fond of the old crate.
It's doing its best to dissolve faster than I can weld new sections in (or so it seems at times)... and I'm fighting a losing battle - but I'm still doing it.

Have you thought about a land rover ,,, you seem suitably qualified to be an owner ,,