Stuff you have fixed today

[Welderpaul]

What engine is in it?

 

[James1979]

Perkins A.420 it was called something else in the JCB. 1000 series I think

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Not a lot but it’s losing its water into the oil. My initial thoughts were head gasket or slipped liners. Was hoping more for head gasket to be honest as liners are a nuisance.
Can’t find anything else where the water / oil are mixing.

Perkins A.420 it was called something else in the JCB. 1000 series I think

The head bolts can stretch, allowing water in that way.
Worse if they give and then some one re-tightens them. That just starts a chain reaction.
I can not recall if the in let manifold has a water port in it.
That can go and give a leak into the bores when cold.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@James1979
Can we see an image of the bores and the piston tops?

 

[James1979]

@James1979
Can we see an image of the bores and the piston tops?

Certainly

The bottom one is just as the head came off

Thanks for the thoughts. There was no water port on the outside of the inlet manifold.

the bottom picture shows the oil / water mix right in the middle so not sure if that indicates something? The head gasket looked fine

 

[James1979]

Having just re looked at the last picture I think it tells a lot? He had K-Seal'd the engine which has worked in my favour as a penetrant dye of sorts. Looks like although the gasket appeared to be fine it has lifted around 3?

I will be taking the sump off as well to try and get as much of this goo out as possible before it goes back together.

 

[Welderpaul]

Having just re looked at the last picture I think it tells a lot? He had K-Seal'd the engine which has worked in my favour as a penetrant dye of sorts. Looks like although the gasket appeared to be fine it has lifted around 3?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am still somewhat an armchair mechanic but having read up a lot on Perkins engines for my ongoing Fordson Perkins rebuild it is a common issue with these engines. Mine is a 3 cyclinder, but the proportions are similar - seemingly the cylinder spacing is such that its common for the head gasket to blow between a cylinder and the waterways.

 

[James1979]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am still somewhat an armchair mechanic but having read up a lot on Perkins engines for my ongoing Fordson Perkins rebuild it is a common issue with these engines. Mine is a 3 cyclinder, but the proportions are similar - seemingly the cylinder spacing is such that its common for the head gasket to blow between a cylinder and the waterways.

The liners slipping is also a thing with these. To be honest its not something I would normally get involved in but its for a friend of a friend and he's a decent guy and everyone else is too busy.

I'm hoping a new bolt and gasket set plus a good clear out of all the goo will do the trick

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

The liners slipping is also a thing with these. To be honest its not something I would normally get involved in but its for a friend of a friend and he's a decent guy and everyone else is too busy.

I'm hoping a new bolt and gasket set plus a good clear out of all the goo will do the trick

Head Bolts sets come in Hex head or Torx. Hex heads are tighten down by load.

The Torx are by load and by degree.

A good gasket set will have all the bits you need for a rebuild.
But not the sump gasket.

 

[Welderpaul]

I'd not heard of K Seal before - it seems a bit of a bodge.

 

[dobbslc]

It is a bit of a bodge!
But its kept thousands of Rovers on the road for years

 

[pressbrake1]

Bronze welded a worn wheel with stripped teeth. Cut teeth next

 

[James1979]

I'd not heard of K Seal before - it seems a bit of a bodge.

It is but as @dobbslc says it works. Its not a bottle of rebuild hence people just keep adding it and avoiding the original issue

Head Bolts sets come in Hex head or Torx. Hex heads are tighten down by load.

The Torx are by load and by degree.

A good gasket set will have all the bits you need for a rebuild.
But not the sump gasket.

I'm not too worried about the sump gasket. I imagine RTV would be fine for this? Its what I've done countless others with and no problems yet, fingers crossed.
This was the hex headed bolts. I think it'd benefit from a new set to be honest. Hes keen to put money into it and keep the thing. I couldn't see any evidence of the liner having moved but not sure how the best way to tell would be? Looked like a hairline gap around them but they all had that and they're slightly undersize anyway to get them in?

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

It is but as @dobbslc says it works. Its not a bottle of rebuild hence people just keep adding it and avoiding the original issue

I'm not too worried about the sump gasket. I imagine RTV would be fine for this? Its what I've done countless others with and no problems yet, fingers crossed.
This was the hex headed bolts. I think it'd benefit from a new set to be honest. Hes keen to put money into it and keep the thing. I couldn't see any evidence of the liner having moved but not sure how the best way to tell would be? Looked like a hairline gap around them but they all had that and they're slightly undersize anyway to get them in?

Put a ruler over the bores and shine a light.
Look for gaps.

Simplest way to see if they have moved.
Unless the head was well and truly stuck and you haven't moves the crank they should be ok.

I used a over the counter gasket paste for the last sump I did on similar engine. All because the gasket looked good.
Didn't leak.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

I'd not heard of K Seal before - it seems a bit of a bodge.

Not a bit of a bodge A HUDGE BODGE.

It was developed by Rover to solve the many issues of the K series engine.

It has caused many an issue. Last one was on a Mk1 Golf 1600. Blocked the heater. That caused a hose to pop.
The hot water was diverted to the passenger foot well, not on the driver feet.

 

[James1979]

Put a ruler over the bores and shine a light.
Look for gaps.

Simplest way to see if they have moved.
Unless the head was well and truly stuck and you haven't moves the crank they should be ok.

I used a over the counter gasket paste for the last sump I did on similar engine. All because the gasket looked good.
Didn't leak.

Thats what my plan was, sort of. Was thinking there would be a more approved way but then I think I was overthinking it, as per usual!

I dont think they are the issue, I think its the head gasket to be honest and severe lack of maintenance has compounded the issue.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

It is a bit of a bodge!
But its kept thousands of Rovers on the road for years

Yes on the side of the road waiting to be recovered.

 

[8ob]

It is but as @dobbslc says it works. Its not a bottle of rebuild hence people just keep adding it and avoiding the original issue

I'm not too worried about the sump gasket. I imagine RTV would be fine for this? Its what I've done countless others with and no problems yet, fingers crossed.
This was the hex headed bolts. I think it'd benefit from a new set to be honest. Hes keen to put money into it and keep the thing. I couldn't see any evidence of the liner having moved but not sure how the best way to tell would be? Looked like a hairline gap around them but they all had that and they're slightly undersize anyway to get them in?

James that looks like the old 1004 perkins engine, some of those ran a water/oil cooler heat exchanger sandwhich plate under the oil filter, the later ones had the cooler strapped to the engine block but again were water fed. They can leech water into the oil, worth checking to see if it has one.

Bob

 

[James1979]

Not a bit of a bodge A HUDGE BODGE.

It was developed by Rover to solve the many issues of the K series engine.

It has caused many an issue. Last one was on a Mk1 Golf 1600. Blocked the heater. That caused a hose to pop.
The hot water was diverted to the passenger foot well, not on the driver feet.

Which is a bonus for the driver K-seal is just a 'get you home' in my book. There is a better one that's mil-spec and was developed for humbles in combat and its really good. I cant remember the name. I will dig it out. I stuck it in a transit with a crack in the block and it lasted years. The truck was a piece of crap and I couldn't be arsed to rebuild it as it wasn't worth spending the money on

 

[James1979]

James that looks like the old 1004 perkins engine, some of those ran a water/oil cooler heat exchanger, the later ones had the cooler strapped to the engine block but again were water fed. They can leech water into the oil, worth checking to see if it has one.

Bob

Cheers. Its not on the side of the block as far as I could see but it'll be worth a look. I've a manual and I'll check but I'm guessing the cooler will be in the front by the rad? Its got the same set up as the later ones with the hydraulic tank at the side of the rad. There is a tank on the other side of the rad although I cant remember what that is off the top of my head.

The thing is in poor health to be honest. Theres about an inch of play fwd / aft on the front axle which I haven't even investigated yet!