Get a grip - engineering a small enough one would be nigh on impossible
- Thread starter 8ob
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Bobupndown
What could possibly go wrong?
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Reminds me of something.........
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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I've the plans for one somewhere, purchased years ago out of the back of Exchange & Mart I think.
Used like a metal "dish". I never bothered making one as back then I didn't have the know how to make the dish.
Vague recollection of it using a very low psi air source too...
8ob
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agreed, keeping me out of the pub would be a good start though.....
aye of course youre right, I've never been one to miss a good opportunity to overcomplicate simple things. I did think of just running it on pure diesel, and it'd be basically ready to run, but where's the fun in that...... besides we have lots of waste oil, inherited on the farm, and plenty more from all round me, so why not....
The bottle/burner experiment is just that, if the waste oil needs a pre heat and gas fired to start it will get it. I was hoping to establish oil flow rates in GPH, compressed air consumption , and based on the best burn measure the ultimate cfm of the fan. Stage two of the experiment was to make this furnace completely stand alone as in pick it up with the forklift and put it in the middle of the yard and have no leads or air lines run to it. I intend to fit a swing start petter ac1 engine onto it which will shaft run a small compressor, alternator and belt drive the centrifugal fan. A petter ac1 at 1500rpm would run all day on a wiff of diesel and a few wraps of the oil pipe around the barrel may just do the fuel preheat. Just thoughts at this stage but completely stand alone and portable is where I woul;d like to be, a mate who is off grid also has a lot of ali that needs smelting so it would be a handy thing.
Bob
Matchless
I started with nothing, still have most of it left
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My waste oil burner we used at work had a small heated tank strapped to the boiler, it used compressed air, we kept the waste oil in 20 litre plastic drums that developed a layer of sludge over time, we poured oil from the drums into a 50 litre tank next / higher than the heater, that fed the small heated tank, it ran with NO smoke except on first start up, main problem was a lump of clag that would build up in front of the burner, needed to be removed every two weeks or so, we added a little petrol / diesel mix to the small tank to aid atarting up on a cold morning.
We also added a litre or so of petrol diesel to the 50 litre tank when refilled, we had a ready supply of petrol diesel mix from misfueled vehicles,
I have a rather expensive fire cut off valve that I installed but never actually used when trying to convert an oil fired heating boiler to waste oil at home, I gave up as I was trying to use it without compressed air and whilst I could get it working quite well it left a layer of unburnt oil sprayed around inside the of the boiler, nerer felt that it was safe in my garage full of classics attached to my house!
cut off valve kit in original box is for sale .......
We also added a litre or so of petrol diesel to the 50 litre tank when refilled, we had a ready supply of petrol diesel mix from misfueled vehicles,
I have a rather expensive fire cut off valve that I installed but never actually used when trying to convert an oil fired heating boiler to waste oil at home, I gave up as I was trying to use it without compressed air and whilst I could get it working quite well it left a layer of unburnt oil sprayed around inside the of the boiler, nerer felt that it was safe in my garage full of classics attached to my house!
cut off valve kit in original box is for sale .......
julianf
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My findings were that trying to get a unit to ignite from cold on a viscous fluid was more bother than it was worth.
An amount of diesel to get the unit up to temperature, and then a change over was way less bother.
Once the inside of the furnace is up to 6 or 700 degrees, wmo will just vaporise of its own accord. That temp will still be below the autoignition point (probably, I've not looked it up) but it would be way above its flash point. So, as long as a flame is present, atomisation of the burner looses relevance at that point.
I run biofuel on a kerosene central heating burner here. Even then it's the ignition from cold that's the hard bit. Once everything is hot, settings are way more flexible.
What I'm saying, in short -
If you want a fancy automated system (like a domestic central heating system, or a turn key furnace) then it's hard.
If you just want to get heat out for a big melt, a bit of high value fuel at the start of the cycle will save a lot of messing about with design. Again, once hot, it's not hard to burn whatever you like.
Small furnaces are more fussy, but if Bob is on about a forklift to move the job and running for large melts, then it will be pretty stable.
I'm imagining shovelling in bitchimen blocks - with enough residual heat, a source of ignition (flame) and a blower, I reckon even that would work!
An amount of diesel to get the unit up to temperature, and then a change over was way less bother.
Once the inside of the furnace is up to 6 or 700 degrees, wmo will just vaporise of its own accord. That temp will still be below the autoignition point (probably, I've not looked it up) but it would be way above its flash point. So, as long as a flame is present, atomisation of the burner looses relevance at that point.
I run biofuel on a kerosene central heating burner here. Even then it's the ignition from cold that's the hard bit. Once everything is hot, settings are way more flexible.
What I'm saying, in short -
If you want a fancy automated system (like a domestic central heating system, or a turn key furnace) then it's hard.
If you just want to get heat out for a big melt, a bit of high value fuel at the start of the cycle will save a lot of messing about with design. Again, once hot, it's not hard to burn whatever you like.
Small furnaces are more fussy, but if Bob is on about a forklift to move the job and running for large melts, then it will be pretty stable.
I'm imagining shovelling in bitchimen blocks - with enough residual heat, a source of ignition (flame) and a blower, I reckon even that would work!
@8ob Aye, same sort of thinking, don't really want to have compressed air if I can avoid it. My thinking was to get the oil hot and fluid enough after start up to be able to run on the burners own pump to the nozzle albeit probably with a booster pump from the tank, eventually passing the lines near the exhaust gasses. won't be a smelter anyway, only a foundry so won't need gigawatts of power anyway.. should be able to get it to a workable solution. Like most things, the complicated part is making it simple... All food for thought..
aye that's what I wanted to avoid, might end up with that configuration, but it'll be the last resort, not the first. Will obviously have a power lead going to the skid for pumps, fans etc, but don't want to mess about with Gas, or Compressed air if I can do it another way. Similar idea to Bob, want a self contained package which can be wheeled out, lit, used, and put away when it's cooled down. Most home foundrys I've seen on youtube etc, look like a diaster waiting to happen, waste oil, diesel oil, gas, and high heat all kind of lying around and kicking about all over the place,. I've too much OCD for that, once I get the system running, will make up a skid to put it all onto...
You won't run a pressure jet burner on anything but diesel or heating oil. Even preheating and filtering waste oil would be a pain in the but unreliable. That's why the commercial wo burners use delavan vacuum jets.
You still need preheat though.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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That Irish lad on YT does a simple build. Starts it by setting fire to an oily rag from memory then just dripping the wo into the burner pan. Hasn't he been discussed on here before? Might even be a member here?
gaz1
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you mean the ozirt burner
@minimutly you may be right, but as long as the oil or fluid viscosity was the same or near to that of the diesel or fuel oil, it should still work in the same way (depending on comparable air flow rates obviously). There are a huge variety of nozzles available to suit a range of fuels (different densities and calorific values), so as long as they were compatible no reason why it won't work. Ultimately we're not trying for maximum fuel efficiency, or 24hr a day running, just free heat with no smoke.. Assuming equal viscosity the only reason I could see it wouldn't work would be the quality of the oil filtration blocking nozzles, which would be a pain. Is your comment based on your own practical experience? I'm always interested to hear of peoples real experience, too much written on google, always difficult to sift through the BS and find good accurate information.
Either way, my intention was to adapt the nozzles to suit what we needed. Been looking at the delavan type nozzles from an american guy who has a multi fuel burner design, albeit running on compressed air . Already knew it was never going to work with the existing nozzle, if nothing else the sintered bronze cone would be blocked after seconds of use even if the waste oil was well filtered. The diesel burner that I have will be little more than a fan housing with a pump attached (or not) when I'm done, the burner tube will be extended at least 300mm and reduced in diameter with the nozzles repiped to the far end so will all need to be remade. Then nozzles will be as needed to suit the viscosity of the "waste oil and position/orientation of the flame path relative to the foundry.
Either way, my intention was to adapt the nozzles to suit what we needed. Been looking at the delavan type nozzles from an american guy who has a multi fuel burner design, albeit running on compressed air . Already knew it was never going to work with the existing nozzle, if nothing else the sintered bronze cone would be blocked after seconds of use even if the waste oil was well filtered. The diesel burner that I have will be little more than a fan housing with a pump attached (or not) when I'm done, the burner tube will be extended at least 300mm and reduced in diameter with the nozzles repiped to the far end so will all need to be remade. Then nozzles will be as needed to suit the viscosity of the "waste oil and position/orientation of the flame path relative to the foundry.
Yep, tried it myself. You need wo at 70 degrees to light up.
I started making my own burner based on the German one my mate bought - it uses a delavan nozzle and a small tank with a heater in it - the nozzle sucks up the hot oil, no faff, just a short delay while the oil gets hot.
For a melter you could use anything to get the burner end up to red hot, then the oil will ignite, no need for a really small pressure jet, filters etc - which on wo will be a pain, assuming your oil pump will move it.
I would not try pumping wo through a pressure jet - it will be a lesson in futillity..
I started making my own burner based on the German one my mate bought - it uses a delavan nozzle and a small tank with a heater in it - the nozzle sucks up the hot oil, no faff, just a short delay while the oil gets hot.
For a melter you could use anything to get the burner end up to red hot, then the oil will ignite, no need for a really small pressure jet, filters etc - which on wo will be a pain, assuming your oil pump will move it.
I would not try pumping wo through a pressure jet - it will be a lesson in futillity..
Hopefuldave
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How about the "no orifice" Nobox7 atomiser? Does need compressed air, but seems not a lot of it:
And the WO feed tube isn't restricted, so shouldn't clog up - I think I may try it?
Dave H. (the other one)
And the WO feed tube isn't restricted, so shouldn't clog up - I think I may try it?
Dave H. (the other one)
