Weld looks pretty bad for a pro

[gordon stephenson]

Total disaster waiting to happen, Get a building inspector involved, and hope that he knows what a sound weld looks like.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

An absolute mess, get some props under those beams and get the company out to rectify it

 

[gaz1]

these are double angle iron thick plates bolted through one piece then bolted to the main beam



on another note id say theres too much weight on that central bar just on its own

 

[Lee Cave]

I'm meeting the BC officer on Tuesday next week. However he never raised it as an issue previous to that. My concern is how many of these have been covered up on other jobs.

What's stopping any Muppet having a go at this crucial safety application?... As is the case here. Is it not mandatory to be qualified for this stuff?

 

[R-D-R]

I'd be getting some Acrow Props under those beams until its properly inspected. I've had a lot of structural work done in my renovations past and the welds as you would expect looked flawless (to my untrained but interested eye) the chap spent more time prepping than actually welding if I recall.

 

[Ashley Burton]

I can't believe anyone would want to put their name to such poor standard of work

Unbelievable!

 

[WorkshopChris]

I'd be getting some Acrow Props under those beams until its properly inspected.

As i read this thread that is exactly what i was thinking, Acrows tomorrow and a structural engineer Monday morning.
Some of that is gong to need some serious thinking on how to support while the steel is improved.

One thing the looked odd is the pic with the paint burns on the back, indicating the steel has had lots of heat, most of the the pictured welds i wouldn't of expected the backs to look like they had seen much heat.

 

[Ton-up]

Thats terrible. Who did them, the builder or did he get them from someone else?

 

[Lee Cave]

I asked the builder which fabricator designed the beam connections, as the engineers calcs state that connections are to be designed by the steel fabricator. He responded and said he didn't understand, they have the own fabricator and welded them themselves.

I have 4 lots of double beam connections like this throughout the house, all the been done the same.

 

[Welderpaul]

Wow. Bad.

There's not a great deal holding those beams together to deal with their self weight, never mind any load on them. Get some props in.

BS1090 is great for those reputable companies who bother to follow it, there's absolutely zero enforcement of it however.
Also BS1090 is pretty much irelevent when stuff is fabricated on site which is what this mess has been. Funny that isn't it. How many times do you hear the question - 'so if I make it on site i don't need any of this CE Marking right?' hence no bolted connections because that would require prefabrication, and therefore BS1090.

Time to bray some heads together.

 

[dobbslc]

Had a similar thing to this years ago on my old house extension, they fitted two fairly large I beams at 90° to each other one on top of the other but somehow the top one wasn't sitting flat on the bottom one!
knows how they managed that but the whole house was on top of it before I spotted it. Got the building inspector out who wasn't too bothered but said you could bolt it or weld it if you want.
No way to bolt it so I borrowed a friends dads old Oxford arc welder and put 6 or 7 rods into it.
Never moved in 12 years and no cracks in the brickwork arc.
For that above abomination I'd get an engineer in ASAP see if the steels can be rescued with weld or angle plates bolted in and then sack them useless off the job!
Don't worry it can all be fixed one way or another.

 

[Lee Cave]

I must admit I find this whole thing down right dangerous and stupid and I'm not supriseds we don't here of lots of catadioptric failures as a result.

I'll see what the building inspector says but suspect he will just say speak to a structural engineer as that's all he's obliged to do.

However having tried to contact my engineer, who's also useless, he's not responding.

I'm now trying to search for welding inspectors but have no idea who to contact.

I know a bad weld is not necessarily an unsafe one, even a half decent weld will carry a lot of KN, however I'm still not comfortable with the way this has been done with absolutely no professional understanding of how important these connections are.

 

[Welderpaul]

I must admit I find this whole thing down right dangerous and stupid and I'm not supriseds we don't here of lots of catadioptric failures as a result.

I'll see what the building inspector says but suspect he will just say speak to a structural engineer as that's all he's obliged to do.

However having tried to contact my engineer, who's also useless, he's not responding.

I'm now trying to search for welding inspectors but have no idea who to contact.

I know a bad weld is not necessarily an unsafe one, even a half decent weld will carry a lot of KN, however I'm still not comfortable with the way this has been done with absolutely no professional understanding of how important these connections are.

The welds are all visual fails straight away. They are bad welds.
I know there are one or two decent BC officers on here, but generally they won't know what they are looking at with regards to weld quality.
I can put you on to a qualified weld inspector but all they are going to do is suck through their teeth, take photos, say they are inadequate welds, and then charge you for looking at them.

Shame because the rest of the build looks decent standard from your pics.

Personally i'd just get heavy with the builder/fabricator and have a frank conversation with them.

 

[Hitch]

Like I said in the PM Lee, just about every conceivable defect possible. You don't need to get a weld inspector to look at that. Instant fail as Paul has said, the photos alone are enough.

So the 'fabricator' is employed by the builder?
I'd put them on stop if that was mine, and request they get someone else at their expense. Could be hard work to rectify that now.

 

[Revs1972]

on your 6th photo it looks like the beams are sat on the top of the bottom flange of the beams running from back to front. If that is the case, and both ends of the beams are mounted like it then it takes awaythe worry of it falling down.
Shockingly bad welding though, and if the builder doesn't agree with that, then I'd be worried about that builder and what other corners has he been cutting down the line. I guess that they don't think the customer will look in any detail and notice these things. Good that you did .
If it were me, I would have a meeting with the builder and give him 2 options.
1. Get a proper welder in to rectify the problem to a suitable standard.
2. You'll get a proper welder in to rectify the problem and stop the cost from his fee.
3. If the steels with plates came in like that (I.e fabricated in a workshop) then ask him for a copy of the O&M manual ( this should include a copy of structural calcs amongst other key documents ) for the job as you need it for your buildings insurance. You'll soon find out whether the fabricator is CE certified or not.

The main thing in these situations is to sound like you know what you are talking about and don't take any BS off the builder.

Personally if the beams are sat on the bottom flanges , I would grind the welds out and use angle cleats on the end of the double beams to connect to the main beam. One each side , with the holes drilled and tapped in the web of the double beam as there is no access to the back as they are close together.

 

[R Kraft]

It is not welded, just the ugly is holding it together.
You need to get an inspector that knows something about welding.

 

[Blake's 7]

Even a welding noob like myself can tell that's really shoddy work. Don't stand underneath those beams.

 

[Rig Pig]

Beautiful work, I bet he's 6G!
On a more serious note l hope you haven't paid for that! I would be asking whoever employs him to send someone else out to sort out the mess!

 

[addjunkie]

It surprises me building control allow it to be welded. I used two chanel girders in my place back to back, and the wanted it all bolted.

on your 6th photo it looks like the beams are sat on the top of the bottom flange of the beams running from back to front. If that is the case, and both ends of the beams are mounted like it then it takes awaythe worry of it falling down.
Shockingly bad welding though, and if the builder doesn't agree with that, then I'd be worried about that builder and what other corners has he been cutting down the line. I guess that they don't think the customer will look in any detail and notice these things. Good that you did .
If it were me, I would have a meeting with the builder and give him 2 options.
1. Get a proper welder in to rectify the problem to a suitable standard.
2. You'll get a proper welder in to rectify the problem and stop the cost from his fee.
3. If the steels with plates came in like that (I.e fabricated in a workshop) then ask him for a copy of the O&M manual ( this should include a copy of structural calcs amongst other key documents ) for the job as you need it for your buildings insurance. You'll soon find out whether the fabricator is CE certified or not.

The main thing in these situations is to sound like you know what you are talking about and don't take any BS off the builder.

Personally if the beams are sat on the bottom flanges , I would grind the welds out and use angle cleats on the end of the double beams to connect to the main beam. One each side , with the holes drilled and tapped in the web of the double beam as there is no access to the back as they are close together.

This is good advice.

 

[CornishPete]

I'm a builder and I wouldn't accept that standard of work from a welding contractor. Hopefully you are paying in stages and are not up front? I would maybe request a meeting with the builder, explain your concern and that the work is substandard and you want it rectifying asap and before any more progress is made and more importantly money is paid! I wouldn't get too militant about it but don't take any bs or excuses either. If he still insists it's fine offer to get an independent inspection and if they say it's fine (which doesn't look likely) you'll pay but if not then the builder pays and sorts the welding out to satisfactory standard. If the builder refuses your offering of a solution/way forward then you may have to terminate the contract and look elsewhere. If it goes this far it may be worth getting the independent inspection anyway so you have something to back up your claim!
Good luck.