What MIG to buy (Professional)

[superclarkey]

Can someone tell me which models in the Lorch range include double pulse as standard? (As there website is just junk to navigate)

 

[superclarkey]

Also what does typical software cost for different brands, are they actually needed to use the machine? I've never owned a machine that required extra software, and I clearly don't need WPS etc.

 

[Munkul]

Can someone tell me which models in the Lorch range include double pulse as standard? (As there website is just junk to navigate)

Lorch Saprom Speedpulse and XT models includes two pulse and double pulse modes as standard. The Speedpulse modes are absolutely fantastic, on both steel and aluminium, in my experience. And the standard feeders work really well for feeding even the softest wires.

 

[Munkul]

Also what does typical software cost for different brands, are they actually needed to use the machine? I've never owned a machine that required extra software, and I clearly don't need WPS etc.

Extra modes like speedroot are somewhere between 700 to 1000 per program.

 

[superclarkey]

Lorch Saprom Speedpulse and XT models includes two pulse and double pulse modes as standard. The Speedpulse modes are absolutely fantastic, on both steel and aluminium, in my experience. And the standard feeders work really well for feeding even the softest wires.

Sweet thanks

Extra modes like speedroot are somewhere between 700 to 1000 per program.

Thats retarded... Well at least I know that is something I need to be aware of!! £1000 for a software update, dang.. before you know you'll be paying a subscription to turn your welder on haha.

I've used double pulse and now I know its benefits I need it in my life... Just find it funny how many people keep telling me its a pointless posh feature that no one uses... but again comes back to sometimes can't teach old dogs new tricks and set in their ways etc.

 

[Ged93]

The only machine I know that has all programs included ( high penetration , root pass , high speed welding , all the 'bling bling' stuff and the programs to weld all the materials known by humanity *wood is not included* ) is the Ewm Titan , but as I said the machine becomes too complicated .

Yes special programs are pretty expensive , Kempii wants 2500 euros each , Selco around 1000 , don't know about Fronius but I assume they don't give them away for free , I'm talking about money for special processes , synergic programs for a specific material ( titan , hardox , inconel ... ) costs around 500 euros here .

Yes Lorch website is a disaster , it has been impossible to me to understand differences between s5 , s8 and so on , and they talk about SpeedPulse and SpeedPulse XT but dealer told me that the first is not available anymore , come on ! Unfortunately Fronius website is unclear too about special processes like Steel , Steel Dynamic and Steel Root

 

[Munkul]

Sweet thanks

Thats retarded... Well at least I know that is something I need to be aware of!! £1000 for a software update, dang.. before you know you'll be paying a subscription to turn your welder on haha.

Well i didn't think I'd ever justify a "remap" of my welder but I've been demoing Speedroot and Speedarc recently and I'm very tempted to spend that money on one of those programs tbh. On steel, those two programs at low amps are absolutely fantastic. I'm using 1.2mm wire cos that's what I've got atm... And it runs down to 50 amps or lower. Nicely, quietly, with no spatter. Absolutely unbelievable til you try it and use it. More of a game changer than pulse for steel IMO, if you have the work for it. Which I don't
They still have a sweet short arc mode as standard, anyway so these programs are really aimed for people doing specific jobs every day, like root welds in pipe or plate.
Aluminium - speedpulse/double pulse is great, but IMO hot start/crater fill is even more important. Especially on funny shaped stuff that doesn't have long runs.

 

[Brad93]

Lorch for me. @matt1978

 

[Brad93]

Well i didn't think I'd ever justify a "remap" of my welder but I've been demoing Speedroot and Speedarc recently and I'm very tempted to spend that money on one of those programs tbh. On steel, those two programs at low amps are absolutely fantastic. I'm using 1.2mm wire cos that's what I've got atm... And it runs down to 50 amps or lower. Nicely, quietly, with no spatter. Absolutely unbelievable til you try it and use it. More of a game changer than pulse for steel IMO, if you have the work for it. Which I don't
They still have a sweet short arc mode as standard, anyway so these programs are really aimed for people doing specific jobs every day, like root welds in pipe or plate.
Aluminium - speedpulse/double pulse is great, but IMO hot start/crater fill is even more important. Especially on funny shaped stuff that doesn't have long runs.

SpeedRoot is the one.

 

[superclarkey]

The only machine I know that has all programs included ( high penetration , root pass , high speed welding , all the 'bling bling' stuff and the programs to weld all the materials known by humanity *wood is not included* ) is the Ewm Titan , but as I said the machine becomes too complicated .

Yes special programs are pretty expensive , Kempii wants 2500 euros each , Selco around 1000 , don't know about Fronius but I assume they don't give them away for free , I'm talking about money for special processes , synergic programs for a specific material ( titan , hardox , inconel ... ) costs around 500 euros here .

Yes Lorch website is a disaster , it has been impossible to me to understand differences between s5 , s8 and so on , and they talk about SpeedPulse and SpeedPulse XT but dealer told me that the first is not available anymore , come on ! Unfortunately Fronius website is unclear too about special processes like Steel , Steel Dynamic and Steel Root

Well I will admit I was totally unaware of this add on programs/features, I just thought you bought the machine and that was it... SO good to know..

Would also explain why there are two machines that are the same (like a Fronius) that are £10k different in price...me thinking it was just a website error when I now realise it was one was fully loaded with software lol

To me this is like buying a car, to have to pay to have the ABS work as an option extra...

Welding over head is about settings and practice, a mig that has special
programs completes the setup side of things, there is every probability
that a mig with a standard pulse or double pulse or no pulse at all will
weld what you want as long as the programs installed are on the mark.

A man in my area used to make alloy tipper bodies, his mig was stolen
he replaced it with the same model, it was not able to do what he required
in his hands at least, that is all changed now with the programs loaded into
the welder, even so you will not know until you try the welder before you buy it,
it may be all singing dancing on paper and still a hand-full in the real world.

Try bofore you buy, Tom made an offer I would not refuse.

I have defo not refused anything, but I will also not taking up the first offer, I will get myself fully educated on the subject, see what fits the bill and then try them out.. I also do not wish to waste his time if its not for me.

Well i didn't think I'd ever justify a "remap" of my welder but I've been demoing Speedroot and Speedarc recently and I'm very tempted to spend that money on one of those programs tbh. On steel, those two programs at low amps are absolutely fantastic. I'm using 1.2mm wire cos that's what I've got atm... And it runs down to 50 amps or lower. Nicely, quietly, with no spatter. Absolutely unbelievable til you try it and use it. More of a game changer than pulse for steel IMO, if you have the work for it. Which I don't
They still have a sweet short arc mode as standard, anyway so these programs are really aimed for people doing specific jobs every day, like root welds in pipe or plate.
Aluminium - speedpulse/double pulse is great, but IMO hot start/crater fill is even more important. Especially on funny shaped stuff that doesn't have long runs.

I agree with what your saying, and yes the thing I really want is the Hot start like my tig set where I can come in hot and then taper to a normal setting, and even my little Kemppi Mig has Crater fill. I'm welding maybe the worst thing you can do really, thin walled tube that transitions from butt joint, to inner corner, to another butt joint before finishing at a corner joint lol.. and the tube starts off normally cold and has a big change in temp due head can't get away... so you can normally not win, so you start cold and finish to hot lol

 

[matt1978]

Pretty much every inverter based Mig by any serious European or American brand your considering will have hot start and crater fill as standard so you can pretty much take that as a given.

 

[superclarkey]

Pretty much every inverter based Mig by any serious European or American brand your considering will have hot start and crater fill as standard so you can pretty much take that as a given.

Yeah, I would hope so

It is difficult in a way for me, because I think I paid £1700-1800 originally for the Kemppi Kempact RA 253A and its just be so good, and other then its power being low and fairly basic settings, to go to nearly 5x that and not see that much benefit make my brain hurt a little when looking at all this machines... specially when some features are only unlocked if you pay more. Its clearly easier to justify if you simply need a 500-600AMP machine as you need to be in something serious for that.. but I want a smart 300-350 amp machine which seems to be dipping its toe firmly in the big boy pool.

I don't think machines cost that much to make, its more who they are selling them to these companies know that firstly they can afford it, and secondly end of the tax year instead of giving the money to tax man, we will have several new top end machines lol... sadly I'm not VAT registered so I'm going to be fully raped on any purchase I make, and secondly, its out of my own pocket so to speak... So if I come across a little more shy to spend the money that is why haha.

Saying that, If I add up all the money I've made from my welders, I really should realise that my investment vs return is amazing.

I've not decided what I want to spend yet, I'm looking for a balance of features and how smart the machine is to justify the cost... Now smart isn't "you can buy a program for £1000" thats still a dumb welder that can have an upgrade... I want a welder I can program myself, i.e how long hot start is on for, how long it takes to ramp to next setting, time between pulse, time between double pulse, duty cycle etc.. this. should be something you should be able to dial in if your spending £10k+ imho or what the feck is the point. haha

I realised I start off nice there, tailed off to a rant a bit haha..

who likes spending money anyways

 

[Moose McAlpine]

I don't think machines cost that much to make.

It's often not a matter of what it costs to make, but what it costs to develop.

 

[eddie49]

Ref. Migatronic - don't they have a machine at this level called "Sigma Select" ?
Aren't there any high-end machines in this category made in Japan? Are they not imported here, or do they use Germans sets over there too?

 

[Hood]

I think most of the welders mentioned will have what you want regards slopes without having to upgrade, certainly the phoenix does. See vid

 

[Munkul]

I've not decided what I want to spend yet, I'm looking for a balance of features and how smart the machine is to justify the cost... Now smart isn't "you can buy a program for £1000" thats still a dumb welder that can have an upgrade... I want a welder I can program myself, i.e long hot start is on for, how long it takes to ramp to next setting, time between e between double pulse, duty cycle etc.. this. should be something you should be able to dial in if your spending £10k+ imho or what the feck is the point. haha

Sorry i think we've confused you a bit.
All of the settings are unlocked on all of those machines, you can fiddle to your hearts content with every single parameter. Also you have memory settings etc.
The "unlocks" are for program modes you won't need. They're nice to have, but that's why they cost money - cos you won't want to pay for having them when you don't need them.
Ie Lorch speedroot program is their equivalent to Lincoln STT - so smooth and developed for open root welding for serious production use, but you could achieve 90% of the end result with smaller wire in short arc CV as standard.
They're programs that you might use if you had them, but won't miss if they aren't there.

 

[stuvy]

Sweet thanks

Thats retarded... Well at least I know that is something I need to be aware of!! £1000 for a software update, dang.. before you know you'll be paying a subscription to turn your welder on haha.

I've used double pulse and now I know its benefits I need it in my life... Just find it funny how many people keep telling me its a pointless posh feature that no one uses... but again comes back to sometimes can't teach old dogs new tricks and set in their ways etc.

Went to a place oop north that has a laser powder cladding machine and as soon as it’s switched on they pay to use is even for parameter/set up tests

 

[matt1978]

You don’t have to pay anymore for all of the features you need to set up the machine, background menus containing Hot start/Crater, up and down slope etc etc are all already there.

The extra charges are for “upgrades” this is something that will specifically offer extra functionality and performance that wasn’t there before. You buy a machine with the features enabled for what you need (and can afford) when you make the initial purchase. But the machine is costed and charged accordingly. A machine that is caperble of all of the features but with none of them enabled will be much cheaper than one that has everything enabled, so it’s not like your paying already.

I’m sure it would be similar for others but can only 100% speak for Lorch, but each optional extra is very transparently laid out as to what it offers and what it costs. It’s like a menu when your configuring the machine, you start with the basics (amperage output, gas or water, compact or seperate etc) then you move on to the functionality options such as high deposition welding, Pulse, TwinPulse etc

But with the major advantage that If for example you didn’t need or couldn’t afford Pulse as an option when you initially purchased, you’d be safe in the knowledge that this process can be bought and opened up for exactly the same price as if it was purchased enabled when the machine was initially built. It would be like buying a car from new, not affording Air Conditioning or Cruise control because your budget didn’t stretch that far initially but feeling relaxed about it because you know full well in 1-2 years down the line these options can easily be retrospectively added on.

Just to give some flavour for the upgrades on the MicorMIG

A standard synergic machine which is only enabled for steel can be upgraded to have Stainless Steel, Aluminium, Mig Brazing synergic lines, SpeedArc (high dep) SpeedUp (Hybrid arc for vertical welding) ElectrodePlus (deluxe MMA functionality) and the ability to read the NFC job cards for £375 extra.

A standard synergic machine for Steel can be upgraded to Pulse welding for circa £950

A standard pulse machine can have all of the additional options (Pulse synergic lines for Stainless, Ali, Mig brazing) SpeedArc, SpeedUp, MicorTWIN (like double pulse) and the Electrode and NFC job read for £750

So it’s pretty well laid out for you to pick and choose what you need and cost up accordingly.

 

[stuvy]

The lorch has the easiest to use interface and just works with no silly unnecessary extras that will more than likely go Pete tong in the future

 

[Hood]

The lorch has the easiest to use interface and just works with no silly unnecessary extras that will more than likely go Pete tong in the future

Not sure I agree with that, certainly wasn't that intuitive when I almost bought one, background menus to set up all sorts of things. Kind of reminded me of my previous Phoenix 330. Maybe I was just misunderstanding it?
I know they are superb machines so I wasn't letting me be put off because of that but the EWM is as well and I decided to stick with them. Sometimes I wonder if the Lorch might have been a better option but in the end I probably made the right choice for me and the work I do.
The GYS Neopulse was actually an even nicer and easier interface and also put down as nice a weld but it was new to the market when I trialled it and it wasn't working happily with my push-pull gun so it had to be skipped.