Wi-fi conflict?

[aesmith]

His line is copper all the way back to the exchange, maybe 4 or 5km. Possibly "exchange only" meaning there's no cabinet involved. Or maybe too far from the cabinet for VDSL, so FTTC isn't available.

But yes the quality of the router or modem does make a difference, for example the Zyxel models with suffix "-B10A" have a better input stage than most, beneficial on a long line.

 

[Guineafowl]

BT customer services are adamant I can't switch to ADSL2, although I'm not sure the chap I spoke to knew what it was.

So, I have two engineers who have seen the kit telling me it's a 21CN cabinet capable of ADSL2, and BT CS telling me the opposite. Not sure how to proceed.

 

[qwakers]

Whether the cabinet is capable or not is only part of the story. The length of the line and how clean it is also determines weather you can be switched to ADSL2+

 

[colnerov]

My next door neighbour was project manager at BT for FTTC network and part of the criteria was getting cabinets in positions that were close to existing cabinets and 100m limit from the houses. There was a lot of research and negotiations needed to achieve that, there was a fair bit of resistance.

 

[Guineafowl]

Can anyone show me on here where to quote to demonstrate ADSL2 availability, just so I don’t get it wrong?

I'm thinking WBC SOADSL2+...available is the one.

 

[Guineafowl]

Tech support 1: "ADSL2 not available".
Tech support 2: "I've been here 20 years and never heard of ADSL1/2 switching".

Transfer to Connections.

Connections:
"ADSL2? You mean the filter?"
No
"Is it fibre you're talking about?"
No, it's copper, just changing how the signal is fed down the existing line.
"Ah, I see."
Do you know what ADSL2 means? If not, please put me on to someone who does [as politely as I could - I've been on this for three hours].

*Goes away and has a word with someone*
"Yes, we can switch you tomorrow"

 

[aesmith]

I'm thinking WBC SOADSL2+...available is the one.

More or less. That stands for "Single Order ADSL2+" which is ordering a new line complete with ADSL2+. So the capability is there..

Looking at my line as well for comparison, I wonder if the correct term would be to ask about the "profile" applied. If you look at this partial screenshot from my account you'll see the downstream profile says "Full 6dB" and the drop down has various options like "8M 6dB". Note in the comments above it say the 8M options force it to ADSL1.

Just for fun I selected the BT non-intrusive diagnostics and I see they describe my setting as "Profile Info WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 6dB Downstream\, UC Medium delay (INP 2) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)"

Cutting to the chase I am now pretty much convinced that all 21CN ADSL is in fact ADSL2+, but a given line might be throttled back to disable some of the capabilites.

 

[Guineafowl]

More or less. That stands for "Single Order ADSL2+" which is ordering a new line complete with ADSL2+. So the capability is there..

Looking at my line as well for comparison, I wonder if the correct term would be to ask about the "profile" applied. If you look at this partial screenshot from my account you'll see the downstream profile says "Full 6dB" and the drop down has various options like "8M 6dB". Note in the comments above it say the 8M options force it to ADSL1.

Just for fun I selected the BT non-intrusive diagnostics and I see they describe my setting as "Profile Info WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 6dB Downstream\, UC Medium delay (INP 2) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)"

Cutting to the chase I am now pretty much convinced that all 21CN ADSL is in fact ADSL2+, but a given line might be throttled back to disable some of the capabilites.

View attachment 467345View attachment 467345

How are you getting into all that fiddling stuff?! Can I do it?

Here's my understanding:

ADSL: Original signal protocol down copper lines. About 25 kHz to 1 MHz.
ADSL2: Same as above, but improved modulation.
ADSL2+: Bandwidth expanded to higher frequencies.

I don't want ADSL2+, as the higher frequencies used will suffer too much attenuation at my distance, but ADSL2 is a no-brainer.

 

[addjunkie]

Buy Starlink. Setup, switch on! Cancel BT.

 

[Guineafowl]

Buy Starlink. Setup, switch on! Cancel BT.

It's on the cards, but pricey, and AJ won't let me

If they did Starlink lite, say 10-20 Mb/s, I'd go for it. Even 5 Mb would do us just fine. I just don't need the 100 Mb for £75/mo, plus kit cost.

 

[voipio]

Finding prices for Tooway satellite broadband used to be simple, but has now become a bit of a nightmare. It seems to start at about £20 a month for a 10GB/month download limit, and around 10Mbps, with quite reasonable performance at around the £30/month mark. The pricing has become very obscure, which is never a good sign. There's a ~£300 upfront equipment cost, which is lower than Starlink.

 

[aesmith]

How are you getting into all that fiddling stuff?! Can I do it?

My ISP, Andrews and Arnold, gives their end users access to a lot of tools and info. They also don't take no for an answer from BT Wholesale or Openreach.

Your understanding is correct regarding ADSL1/2/2+. The only thing I'd say is that I am not completely convinced that enabling 2+ on your line would be harmful. No benefit over 2, but not necessarily harmful.

I would also add that you shouldn't expect ADSL2 to give you a huge speed increase.

 

[aesmith]

Buy Starlink. Setup, switch on! Cancel BT.

We have Starlink but I don't pay for it. Provided by a company I contract for, I guess they were fed up with my regularly flakey Webex connections. It's not really comparable with any other satellite Internet service, the low orbit satellites mean the latency (and therefore response times) are as good as a landline service.

 

[aesmith]

It's on the cards, but pricey, and AJ won't let me

If they did Starlink lite, say 10-20 Mb/s, I'd go for it. Even 5 Mb would do us just fine. I just don't need the 100 Mb for £75/mo, plus kit cost.

A possible alternative is 4G. That's been our main Internet since 2019. I was going to cancel ADSL but then with Covid and working from home i ended up keeping it as backup. Check speeds with a couple of mobile phones on different networks.

 

[ajlelectronics]

A possible alternative is 4G. That's been our main Internet since 2019. I was going to cancel ADSL but then with Covid and working from home i ended up keeping it as backup. Check speeds with a couple of mobile phones on different networks.

My 4G just now...

 

[aesmith]

..

By the way we have 11 guineafowl.

 

[addjunkie]

By the way we have 11 guineafowl.

Why noisy bloomin things!

We used to 4 g with directional dish arieal, about 50gb, fairly good to be honest, but not a patch in Starlink

 

[Guineafowl]

4G signal is pretty bad here.

I would also add that you shouldn't expect ADSL2 to give you a huge speed increase.

Any increase would help, but I'm mainly hoping there will be better stability. It's the dropping out (or choking down <0.1 Mb) that's the problem.

By the way we have 11 guineafowl.

Wow! I've just got the two now. Proper characters.

An unfortunate choice of email address, having discovered over the last 20 years that many people employed to answer phones can't spell guineafowl.

 

[ajlelectronics]

4G signal is pretty bad here.

So it is here. Practically unusable indoors. However a decent MIMO omni aerial on the roof makes all the difference, wired to the router.

 

[aesmith]

Other issues with 4G are getting a decent price, and variable service. Our Three used to be £16/month for unlimited data, but they are one of the worst networks for variable speeds. And for some reason our best mast goes out of service sometimes for a month or so,.

Today our 4G gives me 15 meg download, ADSL around 3.75.