1958 Deckel FP2

[DennisCA]

Imageless update, but I have been working on the vertical head, the t-slots have got burrs in them and that makes the t-nuts get stuck in the slots. This is because of abuse and torquing the screws too hard. I have seen people modify the t-slots, they make them slightly wider and make new and bigger t-nuts that are kidney shaped to fit the slot. With the increased surface area from that you reduce the risk of damaging the slots again.

That's a future project I want to take on but for now I ground the burrs out using a dremel style tool and fine diamond grinders that cannot remove material quickly. I have been working very carefully, only a little at a time so it took some time...

Though I have inferred how the head works and these surfaces are not the important ones for registering the rotation and centering of the vertical head, that is done on the innermost face. While I got rid of most of the burrs sticking out in the T-slot, I did not want to keep on grinding there, so instead I turned down the round part of the T-nuts a little, just enough to remove the black finish and that was enough, now they all move freely in the slots. I will have to be careful about tightening them too much.

Anyway I believe that is enough of that. I have to finish up this pin wrench I am working on to reinstall the nut that retains the X-axis nut. It also took quite a while because I was cheap and made it from several scrap pieces I have welded together (then turned, welded again), just because I did not want to use up good, limited stock!

I also bought a surface plate, I still want a 630x400mm one but this one should last me for some time before it becomes too small:
Granite surface plate | FINE TOOLS

Based on my own math and info from the Thome website, it qualifies as DIN 867 grade 00.

 

[DennisCA]

This morning I started the removal of the headstock:

Following the manual, all the stop dogs and indicators were removed earlier so removing the cover strip on the front. Part of the bellows were removed earlier as well.

Next I loosened the screws and removed assembly 4 in the manual, the blindd tapered pins are stuck real well, I thought helped to have the screws loosened, did not want to budge otherwise. Slide hammer is required. Good thing they are M6 at least.

Then I can remove the screw assembly by backing it out and supporting it with one hand

Next I remove the tapered gib

A quick cleanup shows the gib to look mostly fine, there wear is highly localized to a few spots near the narrower end.

After that I can lift up on the headstock and slide it off.

But I stopped here because the headstock feels too heavy to support by hand, I am wondering how I best go about it. Support it from the crane maybe, through the hole left when removing the horizontal spindle perhaps. I assume the Deckel people assumed you'd have two workers to lift it off.

 

[DennisCA]

I went with M10 bolts, felt like a pretty solid setup.

Hmmm I mentioned a long time ago that I noted some strange sounds from inside the headstock when I moved it back and forth. Think this is a cause... No idea what it is yet, gonna see if the spare parts diagrams have anything to say.

Continuing...

What?

I believe the piece of sheet metal stuck under the headstock has some relation to this. Been looking through my parts list docs but have not been able to identify the part that is broken, it's probably a part of an assembly but the docs don't go into that level of detail. I think it's just a cover though and somehow it got trapped in the head stock behind the gear and got pulled off.

Not sure where these are from, aluminum

Full of junk everywhere, I remove this whole part and dunk it in kerosene.

Cleaned up a little bit, wear can be seen on the front of the sliding surfaces.

 

[DennisCA]

I have begun disassembling the vertical head on the deckel to service the spindle. This is about as far as I will go for now. I will work on the spindle later, based on my read through of other people doing this, it's best to have the head solidly mounted when you test the play (needs to be adjusted to .001 mm) and the best place for that IMO is back in the machine.... I will probably paint the vertical head and other parts while I have them all apart.

 

[DennisCA]

While waiting to clear up this missing part issue I decided to take apart the long reach head further.

I wanted to remove gear and gear assembly and shaft as well, the gear assembly on this is loud, I am not sure if that's normal or not, but it feels like it has a lot of backlash and maybe something loose. But the gear is stuck on really well and I do not have a gear puller that fits in behind the gear.

I note the plate behind the gear is round on this model, I have seen on a 60s era FP2 and this part has been remade to be triangular. I marked the position of the plate with a punch though, two small marks next to each other because it apparently matters which way it's set.

Started preparing these parts for painting, once the long reach head is disassembled I will also prepare it.

 

[DennisCA]

Finished the prep work today and masked it off, just came in from painting. Unfortunately I had issues with the spray gun, despite thorough cleaning it appears the paint had clogged the gun so it didn't work properly at first, end result was too much orange peel, but now I am out of paint. Not sure if I ought to buy more, I eventually want to paint the back cover and door and base too so I will need it sooner or later.

 

[DennisCA]

I decided I wasn't happy with the result, especially on the vertical head so I bought more paint and sanded and went at it again. This time it's not perfect either, but I guess I am satisfied now. It might be hard to see on the photos but I think it's an improvement.

Of course as the paint dries it will become more matte looking as well. It's not the same gloss as the deckel original paint, I think when dry it's more forgiving. Maybe some of you think it's silly to spend so much time on looks, but it really boosts your motivation to continue and do good work when you see the results.

 

[Shox Dr]

Dont knock yourself, you are doing a fabulous job, on a very nice machine

 

[slim_boy_fat]

This time it's not perfect either

Looks pretty good to me

 

[DennisCA]

Thanks guys. Today I took apart the vertical spindle:

The red stuff had me worried at first, but it's just old grease.

Fortunately it looks to be in good condition as I can tell. Spindle housing / outer race:

Spindle / inner race with the smaller cage removed

Close up of the cage after some quick cleaning

I would like to soak the cages in something like lacquer thinner but not sure if that could possibly do any harm. Kerosene is safer but I know from experience it wouldn't get it really clean. Diesel might work too, I think that should be fine with brass.

 

[DennisCA]

I've cleaned up the parts of the spindle and then I did a dry assembly to test the play, as per the instructions I have read.
I mounted the spindle back in the vertical head and sat it down on my surface plate so it would be stable, plan was to use the magnetic base against the casting but the magnet just didn't get a solid connection on the casting, too thick a layer of paint perhaps. So I had to resort to this setup, a big flat block of steel that I made sure was decently flat.

The indicator (2um) is moving consistently 3 ticks on the dial which to me seems pretty good, at one spot it felt like 3.5 ticks but otherwise it was very consistent and definitely within specs, infact the play is so good I wonder if I did anything wrong. To clarify what I am doing, I am rotating the spindle and then pushing up and down on the spindle to test the play/runout (holding the whole casting firmly down on on the plate).

After that I disassembled again, cleaned everything off again, used brake cleaner this time. Then I greased the parts needing it with the right kind of grease, this small tube was 25 euros.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I would like to soak the cages in something like lacquer thinner but not sure if that could possibly do any harm. Kerosene is safer but I know from experience it wouldn't get it really clean. Diesel might work too, I think that should be fine with brass.

Electrolysis tank?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Electrolysis tank?

Not sure about brass. Seem to recall it effects the zinc content.
though I'd have thought bronze over brass?

 

[DennisCA]

I went with diesel. I thought electrolysis was more for removing rust and might it not affect the materials in ways that can be bad? Electrolysis is kinda like a plating setup after all.

And you are right it's bronze not brass

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I went with diesel. I thought electrolysis was more for removing rust and might it not affect the materials in ways that can be bad? Electrolysis is kinda like a plating setup after all.

And you are right it's bronze not brass

Shouldn't do any harm to steel as long as the polarity is correct.

Stirling job btw

 

[DennisCA]

Thanks! After the spindle reassembly I clamped up the spindle by the inner shaft in the vice and put the indicator on the outer spindle itself, then I pushed and pulled on the spindle in both directions. No real setup of the lock nuts was needed aside from my inital tightening. I got 4 microns or there abouts and that's good enough, the manual says only 1 micron but that's difficult to achieve and I was adviced to aim for no less than 2 microns, but 5 microns should be fine. The thrust bearings need some clearance to live.

Then I reassembled the vertical head, testing the quill function and it's now smooth as butter compared to before, before it felt gritty. It's too bad some of these parts are really worn and busted, tried to clean them up best I can.

 

[DennisCA]

I decided to go on ahead with reassembly of the head stock today.

Also completed reassembly of all the other components to the vertical head and plugged the hole on the side again. I left it unfinished instead of painting it.

Then I proceeded to work on the horizontal spindle as it needs to be installed before I resinstall the long reach vertical head.

Was stuck pretty good

Removing the rear bearings:

Taking note of the placement of the components and orientation as I lay them out.

I didn't really photo the rest, I cleaned some more and I greased all the bearings with the same grease and reassembled. Then I set the axial play with the lock nut until it read 6 microns or .0002" I think that's enough, the manual did not say what amount of end play there ought to be.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

@Dennis Aspö That's going to be better than new!

 

[DennisCA]

Thanks! I see I forgot a picture from the last post, were I measured the axial play:

The long reach head and vertical head is now reassembled as well:

Reassembly of the vertical head was tricky, all the t-nuts fell to the bottom of the slot. I had to inject grease around the t-nuts to hold them in place, and then I had to make short lengths of threaded rod that I put in the t-nuts, otherwise I don't know how I would've been able to get all the t-nuts lined up. After I had the bolts through I could just remove them and put the regular bolts back in, the grease around the t-nuts kept them in place.

 

[Pete.]

Gasoline to you sir.

Or petroleum spirit aka white spirits.

TBH any light petroleum based oil will work for flushing.