2K Safety - Leason learnt

[Burdekin]

Always treat all spray painting with care and use proper PPE. Lung disease is a horrible way to die.

 

[Keithmac]

I brushed on my 2k Epoxy primer, with a decent mask (not air fed), didn't fancy risking it with a gun..

 

[Siddus74]

Thanks all .. this thread started me worrying. I presume I can also get a 2k solid colour top coat that does not contain the cynonasties in this modern age??

What can I expect the fumes to be like from a neighbour smell point of view? Ive got an LVLP system with exhaust fans with the booth filters etc and am planning to sheet / vox the entire garage like my first picture.

Thanks again :-)

Its a Sammio Speedster .. im hoping to make it into something like this

 

[ajlelectronics]

Thanks all .. this thread started me worrying. I presume I can also get a 2k solid colour top coat that does not contain the cynonasties in this modern age??

Not in conventional paints, nearest you can get is water or solvent basecoat and then a 1k primer. However, there are non iso hardeners available for 2k acrylics although my experience of them was poor, they never seemed to harden.

There is something called Nisocoat I believe, but I have no personal experience or knowledge about it.

What can I expect the fumes to be like from a neighbour smell point of view? Ive got an LVLP system with exhaust fans with the booth filters etc and am planning to sheet / vox the entire garage like my first picture.

With LVLP, not so bad.

 

[Kram]

Topcoat is still better to use proper 2k isocyantes, which you should not attenpt in your small garage!

It can be brushed/rollered which is safe, and then sanded back and polished.

 

[Siddus74]

I brushed on my 2k Epoxy primer, with a decent mask (not air fed), didn't fancy risking it with a gun..

What did the finish come out like? Presumably you then sanded and wet flatted it etc etc?

 

[ajlelectronics]

wet flatted

No water until final colour coat polishing.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

What can I expect the fumes to be like from a neighbour smell point of view? Ive got an LVLP system with exhaust fans with the booth filters etc and am planning to sheet / vox the entire garage like my first picture.

Thanks again :-)

I've sprayed two cars in my garage without disturbing the neighbours, however it was a fairly low density area right at the edge of town. I did all my spraying mid week when most of the neighbours were out at work. I'm pretty sure that all my angle grinding was a much bigger disturbance. I also ensured there were no parked cars nearby to avoid overspray landing on them. I'd say it can settle up to 10m or so from the garage depending on the breeze. I also used a full face mask positive clean air PPE. I didn't have any extraction other than having the double garage door open. I'll dig out some pics. The cars were mainly painted panel by panel over the space of a few years rather than all at once.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Some pics, this was the most I did in one go.

Masked up.20137

1.2l of base coat.

1.2l of 2k clear.

 

[Siddus74]

Some pics, this was the most I did in one go.

Masked up.20137

1.2l of base coat.

1.2l of 2k clear.

View attachment 431511

Looks good dude .. ive been advise that 2k EP primer is not that stinky :-)

 

[charlysays]

Thanks all .. this thread started me worrying. I presume I can also get a 2k solid colour top coat that does not contain the cynonasties in this modern age??

What can I expect the fumes to be like from a neighbour smell point of view? Ive got an LVLP system with exhaust fans with the booth filters etc and am planning to sheet / vox the entire garage like my first picture.

Thanks again :-)

Its a Sammio Speedster .. im hoping to make it into something like this

View attachment 431455

There are a number of 2k acrylics which are isocyanate free, no more dangerous to spray than epoxy. They use epoxide hardeners but still achieve very good weather resistance.

There were some iso free "2k" top coats marketed in recent years most notably jawel iso free 2k but it was basically just normal 2k paint but with some gloop added (not a proper hardener) to make it sort of dry but not cure - result was a paint film which never cured. I think this kinda made people wary of trying other iso free 2k paints even though the ones I'm talking about use different chemistry - a proper cross linking hardener- an epoxide hardener in most cases.

My daily car is painted with nisocoat (look up nisocoat 2 on this forum and you'll find my project thread on my Merc c250) and it's been outside 24/7 for 3 years and tens of thousands of miles with zero signs of fading, chalking or other UV or weather related issues. Only issues I've had are stone chips on the front bumper chipping back to the primer which is common with any paint. Planning on painting another bumper soon and wet on wetting the nisocoat over the epoxy primer to get a better bond.

I've personally used hmg nisocoat 2 sprayed with 1.3mm hvlp - it's high solids, great coverage, quick drying and hardens properly (even the runs go hard). The dried paint film is very similar in durability to isocyanate 2k in both hardness, thickness and gloss.
Apparently isocyanate 2k is easier to spray and less prone to orange peel but personally i got a decent gun finish, you just have to work your wet edges very quickly and use wet coats with a slow 2k thinner. This makes the paint best suited to spraying things like cars bit by bit.

A mate of mine used nisocoat 2k clear over traditional solvent basecoat and got really good results and said it laid down better than the direct gloss and working over wet edges very quickly was less critical.

Other 2k isocyanate free acrylics I'm aware of with similar specs to nisocoat 2 are ultrimax 2 and cromadex 800.

 

[Erie Fred]

Has the OP "left the building" ?

shoreangler​

Member · From Edinburgh
Joined Mar 31, 2009
Last seen Apr 17, 2012

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Has the OP "left the building" ?

shoreangler​

Member · From Edinburgh
Joined Mar 31, 2009
Last seen Apr 17, 2012

Let's hope it wasn't 2k related.

 

[Siddus74]

There are a number of 2k acrylics which are isocyanate free, no more dangerous to spray than epoxy. They use epoxide hardeners but still achieve very good weather resistance.

There were some iso free "2k" top coats marketed in recent years most notably jawel iso free 2k but it was basically just normal 2k paint but with some gloop added (not a proper hardener) to make it sort of dry but not cure - result was a paint film which never cured. I think this kinda made people wary of trying other iso free 2k paints even though the ones I'm talking about use different chemistry - a proper cross linking hardener- an epoxide hardener in most cases.

My daily car is painted with nisocoat (look up nisocoat 2 on this forum and you'll find my project thread on my Merc c250) and it's been outside 24/7 for 3 years and tens of thousands of miles with zero signs of fading, chalking or other UV or weather related issues. Only issues I've had are stone chips on the front bumper chipping back to the primer which is common with any paint. Planning on painting another bumper soon and wet on wetting the nisocoat over the epoxy primer to get a better bond.

I've personally used hmg nisocoat 2 sprayed with 1.3mm hvlp - it's high solids, great coverage, quick drying and hardens properly (even the runs go hard). The dried paint film is very similar in durability to isocyanate 2k in both hardness, thickness and gloss.
Apparently isocyanate 2k is easier to spray and less prone to orange peel but personally i got a decent gun finish, you just have to work your wet edges very quickly and use wet coats with a slow 2k thinner. This makes the paint best suited to spraying things like cars bit by bit.

A mate of mine used nisocoat 2k clear over traditional solvent basecoat and got really good results and said it laid down better than the direct gloss and working over wet edges very quickly was less critical.

Other 2k isocyanate free acrylics I'm aware of with similar specs to nisocoat 2 are ultrimax 2 and cromadex 800.

Ill check this out, thanks for taking the time to respond with so much information.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Ill check this out, thanks for taking the time to respond with so much information.

As said, I have no experience of it, but I think that if it WAS as good as 2K, Elfin Safe Tea would be mandating it for body shops. However, I am interested in how you get on with it.

 

[charlysays]

As said, I have no experience of it, but I think that if it WAS as good as 2K, Elfin Safe Tea would be mandating it for body shops. However, I am interested in how you get on with it.

It's not as good.
It loses the wet edge quickly/ flashes off very quick even with slow thinner making it unsuitable for painting large things in one go (e.g a car). It then takes 2-3 weeks to fully harden depending how thick you spray it on- much like other epoxies.
You can't do the tack coat technique to prevent runs as the orange peel shows through in the full wet coats so all coats have to be wet coats which, if you're not a very experienced sprayer, makes it tricky to paint vertical surfaces without runs.
Apparently the clear coat is more forgiving but the above was my experience of the direct gloss.

However, the cured paint film is thick/ high solids/ only needs 2 coats, tough, very glossy, polishes well and after 3 years outside in all weathers with no love at all it is showing no signs of weathering issues- by now cellulose would have needed a lot of polishing.
The cured film is as good or almost as good as isocyanate paints but the ease of application is not.

 

[Siddus74]

Ill check this out, thanks for taking the time to respond with so much information

There are a number of 2k acrylics which are isocyanate free, no more dangerous to spray than epoxy. They use epoxide hardeners but still achieve very good weather resistance.

There were some iso free "2k" top coats marketed in recent years most notably jawel iso free 2k but it was basically just normal 2k paint but with some gloop added (not a proper hardener) to make it sort of dry but not cure - result was a paint film which never cured. I think this kinda made people wary of trying other iso free 2k paints even though the ones I'm talking about use different chemistry - a proper cross linking hardener- an epoxide hardener in most cases.

My daily car is painted with nisocoat (look up nisocoat 2 on this forum and you'll find my project thread on my Merc c250) and it's been outside 24/7 for 3 years and tens of thousands of miles with zero signs of fading, chalking or other UV or weather related issues. Only issues I've had are stone chips on the front bumper chipping back to the primer which is common with any paint. Planning on painting another bumper soon and wet on wetting the nisocoat over the epoxy primer to get a better bond.

I've personally used hmg nisocoat 2 sprayed with 1.3mm hvlp - it's high solids, great coverage, quick drying and hardens properly (even the runs go hard). The dried paint film is very similar in durability to isocyanate 2k in both hardness, thickness and gloss.
Apparently isocyanate 2k is easier to spray and less prone to orange peel but personally i got a decent gun finish, you just have to work your wet edges very quickly and use wet coats with a slow 2k thinner. This makes the paint best suited to spraying things like cars bit by bit.

A mate of mine used nisocoat 2k clear over traditional solvent basecoat and got really good results and said it laid down better than the direct gloss and working over wet edges very quickly was less critical.

Other 2k isocyanate free acrylics I'm aware of with similar specs to nisocoat 2 are ultrimax 2 and cromadex 800.

Hi Mate, great thread on your black Nisocoat Merc .. For a non iso top coat that looks ace! Very tempted to do my project in this now. Im in a single garage with a 90ltr 14cfm comp LVLP gun. Looking and reading your other posts you used a 1.3 at 30psi HVLP - how do you think my set up will work in comparison? Also you reduced to 40percent .. is that 40percent on the total volume or as an percentage of the other elements? Any advice is welcomed.

 

[DennisCA]

I have noticed that when I look on youtube channels, like Paint Society and such where they professionally paint cars, the painters use filter masks. Can somebody explain how pro's can do this? They are most def using 2k paints and clear coats and this thread is pretty clear that supplied air is the only real solution. Or is the answer just america?

 

[MetalMonkey]

Or is the answer just america?

Yup.

Filter masks used to be permissible over here too but HSE guidance changed.
Air fed is obviously better, providing the air source is clean and the mask fits correctly. Filter masks can work, but it is a question of levels of exposure and liability.

 

[Jack_K]

I have noticed that when I look on youtube channels, like Paint Society and such where they professionally paint cars, the painters use filter masks. Can somebody explain how pro's can do this? They are most def using 2k paints and clear coats and this thread is pretty clear that supplied air is the only real solution. Or is the answer just america?

If the filters are changed soon enough most will filter the isocyanates. The problem is that once you can smell it, it's too late. The amount of professionals I see not using an air fed respirator is concerning. It's not just America, I see it all the time here in Australia too.