Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

Ithink we should all go back to horse and carts. The waste can be used to fertilise, or for entertainment when the woke stand in it, butthen the green lobby would whinge about methane production!

We need the genetically-engineered Unicorn & Cart (actually a heavily digitised and coded contraption built of unobtainium).

Unicorn waste (& farts) will look like rainbows, smell like fresh wild flowers, and be an instantly re-usable, high-energy feed that the Unicorns will just love to eat.

So relax, the problem is solved, and The Woke can relax & indulge in their favourite pastime of throwing (organic, natch!) Soup at Oil Paintings

 

[GRW]

I’ll ignore this as it’s none of your business and getting into the personal realms.

Enjoy the rest of your day Keep taking the blood pressure meds.

It was a point, not personal (& you knew exactly what it was about - you just don't have any valid opposition to it).

Nice sidestep into a little dig, to (try) to deflect away from it though .
Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Keith 66]

An EV - has to carry 100% of its "fuel" around, all the time, (contained within big, heavy encasements).
It's hard to see (short of going back to the electric locomotive / tram system, where the vehicle "picks up" its electricity (Scalextric?) how an EV can overcome this penalty.

My son works at mira testing ev components & batteries. So is working with cutting edge ev stuff. His view & that of most of his fellow engineers is that lithium batteries were fixated on by the motor manufacturers as they were the first really viable battery technology available. Corporate inertia means that the EV manufacturers have invested too much time & money in lithium to get out of it until they really have to. But it remains a difficult metal to mine & extract & has problems such as its fire risk.
Much is said of hydrogen, most production comes from cracking methane but that leaves large amounts of Co2 which you dont want! Other way is electrolysing water, ineffecient as you have to burn electricity to do it, lots of it on any scale. Then you have to contain the stuff & its propensity to escape & leak is well known in industry.
If you want long range ev's with high power to weight ratio they should be looking at fuel cell technology such as Aluminium air, 5 or 6 times the energy density of lithium, safe & easily recyclable. That shows real promise & if ever adopted or something like it the ev will have come of age.
Pity the British company that invented it sold up to the French!

 

[GRW]

My son works at mira testing ev components & batteries. So is working with cutting edge ev stuff. His view & that of most of his fellow engineers is that lithium batteries were fixated on by the motor manufacturers as they were the first really viable battery technology available. Corporate inertia means that the EV manufacturers have invested too much time & money in lithium to get out of it until they really have to. But it remains a difficult metal to mine & extract & has problems such as its fire risk.
Much is said of hydrogen, most production comes from cracking methane but that leaves large amounts of Co2 which you dont want! Other way is electrolysing water, ineffecient as you have to burn electricity to do it, lots of it on any scale. Then you have to contain the stuff & its propensity to escape & leak is well known in industry.
If you want long range ev's with high power to weight ratio they should be looking at fuel cell technology such as Aluminium air, 5 or 6 times the energy density of lithium, safe & easily recyclable. That shows real promise & if ever adopted or something like it the ev will have come of age.
Pity the British company that invented it sold up to the French!

Interesting! I fully "get" the "corporate inertia" bit!
I agree that a lot of the shortcomings (not all, as there's still the charging difficulties etc to address) of the EV would be resolved if the "fuel" weight & range was 5x better for sure.

The big issue that I cannot see being resolved (as per my exchange with @daleyd ) is the lack of opposition to Mfrs having free-rein to have total control of the vehicle (through electronics & coding/lockout) from cradle to grave of the product (& to pretty much control & pre-determine exactly when the machine's life will end).

This is of course a now long-term issue with all cars, not just EV's - and it's something that nowhere near enough people seem aware of/concerned about IMO.

 

[daleyd]

My son works at mira testing ev components & batteries. So is working with cutting edge ev stuff. His view & that of most of his fellow engineers is that lithium batteries were fixated on by the motor manufacturers as they were the first really viable battery technology available. Corporate inertia means that the EV manufacturers have invested too much time & money in lithium to get out of it until they really have to. But it remains a difficult metal to mine & extract & has problems such as its fire risk.
Much is said of hydrogen, most production comes from cracking methane but that leaves large amounts of Co2 which you dont want! Other way is electrolysing water, ineffecient as you have to burn electricity to do it, lots of it on any scale. Then you have to contain the stuff & its propensity to escape & leak is well known in industry.
If you want long range ev's with high power to weight ratio they should be looking at fuel cell technology such as Aluminium air, 5 or 6 times the energy density of lithium, safe & easily recyclable. That shows real promise & if ever adopted or something like it the ev will have come of age.
Pity the British company that invented it sold up to the French!

ISTR there are some quite fundamental challenges to using aluminium air batteries, at least in their current form - not least the fact that the aluminium anodes requires replacement as they are used. Be interesting to see what other developments come about.

 

[GRW]

I would like to see that. (E-mtb)

If you get the chance to have a go on one - do.
They are very, very capable now (way more than me, & I'm not too bad) and do make off-road cycling very enjoyable.
They "take the edge" off the hard climbs - so while you still need to pedal/work, you can do "a big ride" & not feel overwhelmed/utterly knackered etc.

They aren't cheap, but they are fun!
(I'm also glad I bought mine before the latest "smart" systems, (so there's an aftermarket service building up steadily able to repair/overhaul the Performance Line CX motor system & controls my emtb has).

 

[bricol]

Trying to decide which looks worse, the Disco 5 or that. I think the Disco may just have it...

The front certainly stands out in traffic. Which I guess was part of the intention.

 

[bricol]

So in summary,

I want an electric vehicle - I bought one.
I don't want one - I didn't.

A bit like:
I want a new car - I bought one.
I didn't want a new car - I bought a previously enjoyed one.


I've bought one new car in my entire life - it came in boxes and I had to put it together myself 22 yrs ago. Its been used, abuse, commuted in, gone on site with, gone on holiday around Europe - used it for the work commute last thursday.

But for those wanting to carry a builders bag of sand, 8x4 sheets, have got an **** wider than about 17", want cup holders (well, unless the passenger counts?) or even anything more than an over night bag or two - you won't want it

 

[sako243]

The front certainly stands out in traffic. Which I guess was part of the intention.

Which is ironically exactly the opposite of what the Discovery does.

My sister was buying a Disco Sport (I was actually quite surprised at how good that vehicle was) in Cardiff (lives in London). Dad and I drove up from Pembrokeshire to collect her old car (she'd sold it to a neighbour of my parents). On the way up he was asking what she was actually buying and I was trying to point one out on the M4, thought I saw one, no full size Range Rover. Ah - there's one, no that's an Ewok, maybe this one? Nope that was a Sport. Ah what there's one - nope that's a Disco 5. This is from someone who's quite familiar with Land Rovers being really the only vehicles I've ever owned for any length of time. They were all the bloody same from the front.

 

[sako243]

builders bag of sand, 8x4 sheets

Actually I've upgraded now - my silly life has now got so stupid that it's far easier and more cost effective to bring a lorry in . I mean the builders estimated we'd use about 10t of sand repointing the whole house. Sod paying £50/bag for that, spoke to Huwie our friendly neighbourhood tipper driver and he dropped off a 15.5t load at ~£20/tonne.

They've used 2/3rds of the sand and done half the house so far . The next bits were going to be rendered so even more sand used.

 

[premmington]

If EVs are going to be the future they need to make them lighter. My 3.5t van has a payload of 1570kgs the EV version payload is 760kgs.

The wieght adds to other sort of particulate emissions - brake dust and tyre wear and they measuring this already (so they can tax you on it)

 

[GRW]

So in summary,

I want an electric vehicle - I bought one.
I don't want one - I didn't.

A bit like:
I want a new car - I bought one.
I didn't want a new car - I bought a previously enjoyed one.


I've bought one new car in my entire life - it came in boxes and I had to put it together myself 22 yrs ago. Its been used, abuse, commuted in, gone on site with, gone on holiday around Europe - used it for the work commute last thursday.

But for those wanting to carry a builders bag of sand, 8x4 sheets, have got an **** wider than about 17", want cup holders (well, unless the passenger counts?) or even anything more than an over night bag or two - you won't want it

The elephant in the room for all new equipment - is the electronic coding/lockout and total control the Mfrs are allowed & facilitated to have over YOUR purchase.

Invalidation of Warranty etc I can understand if an owner were to get work done outside the Mfr Dealer network - but having the right to work on your own property imposed upon you by the Mfr - is not on.

Given the choice (that I should have) - I'd "vote with my feet" & simply would not purchase a vehicle that was utterly controller by the Mfr - however - as there are so many buyers validating and accepting the practice without complaint - that option will vanish.

There will be a time when all are bemoaning the loss of access and the right to choose how/where their property is repaired/maintained (& how much it costs) - but by then it'll be too late.

 

[daleyd]

The wieght adds to other sort of particulate emissions - brake dust and tyre wear and they measuring this already (so they can tax you on it)

This has been looked at by the RAC - I’ve not seen much wear on tyres at 12,000 miles and front brakes look like new. Time will tell I guess but it doesn’t seem much different to any other ice car I’ve owned so far.

Are electric cars really better for the environment? | RAC Drive

We examine the evidence for and against the green credentials of electric vehicles with help from the Energy Saving Trust.

www.rac.co.uk

There’s a little indicator on the dash that shows the state of regen braking - it’s quite rare to see the indicator off the scale, which indicates use of the mechanical brakes, other than the last few mph when coming to a stop.

 

[Kayos]

Most pickups in the UK can carry a builders bag legally bar the ranger raptor. A builders bag only ways 600-800kg and to be classed as plg have to legally be able to carry 1t. As for sheet goods you can easily carry them just not flat in the bed. I have carried all manner of things sat on 2 bits of 2x4 lent against the cab. The only thing land rovers do any different to a pickup is their off-road performance. But then it's only really the 90's that have any great advantage.

As for the electrical system not being up for the job we also have to consider that we may be adding electric chargers to all new builds but we are also adding electric heating and water heating. We are massively increasing the demand on the system. Now I don't know or care if we have the production capacity but that is only half the problem. The infrastructure is old, and in a lot of cases poorly installed. Public infrastructure in the UK is pretty dire apart from new fibre being installed. This everything water sewage gas electric the roads the railways, everything is old and tired and we are constantly adding more strain with little upgrade works. Especially at the bottom of the system. We get power cuts from time to time and it's not the plant stopping. It will be a junction somewhere in the village failing and having spent a lot of time digging up the roads I know that the cables are quite well degraded,infact it is rare to find an underground cable that would actually pass an inspection due to the degradation of the insulation but if we reported everything we found we would never actually get any work done. Now they are very good and very quick to repair these things so at the moment we have little problem mostly as we have options, their is both gas and electric to heat the house and petrol or diesel to power our cars. And diversification is often considered key to survival in many areas. So shouldn't we leave options open. The more different fuel source their are especially domestically produced the better we are going to be.

I have to say, your assessment of the electrical infrastructure is completely wrong

I'm looking at 16 week lead times for upgrades (due to increased loads) as the teams are so busy on the network

There are billions being spent on upgrades, and the last time I reported a degraded cable (about 2 weeks ago) it was replaced all the way back to the substation 3 days later

The rules on upgrades recently changed, if your upgrade requires a new substation the dno now do that for free, meaning small upgrades result in bigger upgrades

Is it perfect? No, but it's not in any danger of failing apart either

 

[GRW]

My leccy kettle died last week.
The OH went online to source a replacement.
One of the options (at £70-odd) was a "Smart" Kettle! It could link to an Alexa or some such home gizmo.

Sorry, but a smart kettle is a trinket for the vacuous and hard-of-thinking in my book - & that it exists at all is a sad indictment of just how frivolous and daft we are all becoming overall.
It is however, another indicator of just how unthinkingly willing so many are, to spend silly money on an overly-complicated item that doesn't really offer any real-world benefits over a regular kettle.

I mean... really? This - is what sensible, practical people are up against.

(OH bought a Russell Hobbs regular kettle for £26).

 

[Kayos]

I wonder for things like goods transport/agriculture whether hydrogen will be used? Or whether the switch to ev (or other alternatives) for those users that can switch would allow industries like this to carry on using fossil fuels?

We are doing a feasibility study for a local authority in a rural area. They bought an electric bin truck. It was rubbish (excuse the pun)

We are looking at excess pv generation and excess generation from an AD plant powering a hydrogen plant, this will be used in bin trucks initially but the long term plan is school busses and other fleet vehicles like meals on wheels vans

It is not the most efficient way of using the energy but it's better than exporting the electricity for pennies or stopping generation

 

[Kerelise]

I’m sure they believe water will boil at over 100 deg. C in it to kill covid bugs…

 

[Agrismith]

I have to say, your assessment of the electrical infrastructure is completely wrong

I'm looking at 16 week lead times for upgrades (due to increased loads) as the teams are so busy on the network

There are billions being spent on upgrades, and the last time I reported a degraded cable (about 2 weeks ago) it was replaced all the way back to the substation 3 days later

The rules on upgrades recently changed, if your upgrade requires a new substation the dno now do that for free, meaning small upgrades result in bigger upgrades

Is it perfect? No, but it's not in any danger of failing apart either

Long lead times is as much about the lack of staff and poor organisation procedures the same as every other industry. And there may be areas that have or are being upgraded but there are definitely large parts of the country running on 100 year old infrastructure. We get issued a list of permits for the county on a regular basis and electric always have the least permits of all the utilities and it's mostly new connections they are permitting for.

 

[Kayos]

Long lead times is as much about the lack of staff and poor organisation procedures the same as every other industry. And there may be areas that have or are being upgraded but there are definitely large parts of the country running on 100 year old infrastructure. We get issued a list of permits for the county on a regular basis and electric always have the least permits of all the utilities and it's mostly new connections they are permitting for.

I think we are going to have to disagree, infrastructure upgrades do not need a permit, local upgraded do though

 

[premmington]

My leccy kettle died last week.
The OH went online to source a replacement.
One of the options (at £70-odd) was a "Smart" Kettle! It could link to an Alexa or some such home gizmo.

Sorry, but a smart kettle is a trinket for the vacuous and hard-of-thinking in my book - & that it exists at all is a sad indictment of just how frivolous and daft we are all becoming overall.
It is however, another indicator of just how unthinkingly willing so many are, to spend silly money on an overly-complicated item that doesn't really offer any real-world benefits over a regular kettle.

I mean... really? This - is what sensible, practical people are up against.

(OH bought a Russell Hobbs regular kettle for £26).

I am a luddite - I know it know...

Smart kettle....

I got a whistling kettle on a gas ring - cas gas in only 10p per kw - and electric costs far more!

I am a happy luddite....