Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

@northwest

I get your frustration - I also get the "range anxiety" thing...

As it stands: Your full EV comes today - set up for local journeys and home charging - small city car (and this suits the current tech) or you buy into £100k cars with the power and a workable range.

---------

Last two working BMW i3 and i8 cars I found myself having to deliver - I just loaded them up on a 7.5ton diesel tilt and slide truck to save myself the agrivation.

Small petrol engined cars are where it is at - but nobody wants a tiny lightweight car - they all want a huge car to drive about on there own in.

We crossed this bridge in times gone past - when OPEC was formed in Sept 1960 in Baghdad, Iraq and we had to start to pay thru the nose for fuel. A rash of mini cars came - tiny lightweight things. We been thru this before - the answer was about 60+ years ago.

 

[Smallfry]

Are these real or imagined scenarios?

How often do you spend standing still for 4 hours, and how would someone come past with 5 gallons of fuel if no one can move?

AC is not heat.

Last year I was stuck on the M6 for five odd hours and it was freezing. Its not that rare an occurrence. During that snow we had earlier this year, some were stuck in their cars overnight.

 

[m_c]

AC is not heat.

Last year I was stuck on the M6 for five odd hours and it was freezing. Its not that rare an occurrence. During that snow we had earlier this year, some were stuck in their cars overnight.

Was the heater not working in your car?
Or were you worried about running out of fuel?

 

[not done it yet]

Only stupid people go entirely unprepared. But there are an awful lot of them out there. A lot of inexperienced or poorly trained drivers out there, too, who are unable to even cope with our normal weather conditions.

My 80-20% usual SOC would leave me with about 15kWh (minimum) of leccy to keep me warm. I’m in the UK, so much less extreme than Ca. I don’t know how much energy the heated seats need, but not a lot - especially when covered with coats/blankets/ etc. If the battery was close to 80%, I could cook my meals for a couple of days and keep warm. The electric blanket on my bed is approx 100W on full heat - and that is far too much once in situ.

No need for exaggeration. Everyone else would be in the same boat. If I was at home, I could charge the battery from my diesel generator. Minimum power for the house could be taken from the car battery if it was charged. Too many are critical of EVs when they know nowt about them (and often not wanting to know anything about them) - I have a brother who fits that description.

Yes, our other vehicle supports the petro-chemical industry. But I know which vehicle I now prefer to use, if the trip is appropriate. Yes, it is a tad larger than the average vehicle, but it is shorter than the vehicle it replaced. A smaller model would not suffice for our needs.

 

[GRW]

Well.... my estate car cost me about 1/30th of a low-end diddy EV.

Tonight I put in £42 worth of petrol, which is maybe 300m driving in literally 2-minutes, plus 1 more minute to pay.

I get robbed on RFL for it (but thats going to coming for EV's too, mark my words). Even then, my outlay and Annual RFL amounts, when compared to the spend on an equivalent EV, leaves me a huge sum to spend on petrol before I'd get close to the EV spend, & without any hassle, Apps, waiting time, range anxiety etc etc.

Each to their own, but I know what I prefer (& I know they'll legislate cars like mine off the road to force ppl into EV's or onto public transport - but till that day comes....).

 

[Smallfry]

Was the heater not working in your car?
Or were you worried about running out of fuel?

Not at all. I have the parking heater on a separate tank. It is an example of what can happen.

 

[not done it yet]

Well.... my estate car cost me about 1/30th of a low-end diddy EV.

Tonight I put in £42 worth of petrol, which is maybe 300m driving in literally 2-minutes, plus 1 more minute to pay.

I get robbed on RFL for it (but thats going to coming for EV's too, mark my words). Even then, my outlay and Annual RFL amounts, when compared to the spend on an equivalent EV, leaves me a huge sum to spend on petrol before I'd get close to the EV spend, & without any hassle, Apps, waiting time, range anxiety etc etc.

Each to their own, but I know what I prefer (& I know they'll legislate cars like mine off the road to force ppl into EV's or onto public transport - but till that day comes....).

That’s OK. Everyone to their own. Live and let live. Our remaining ICE car cost less than £500 nearly 5 years ago and is still going strong. That £40 would take me 400 miles in my ICE car.

At the cheapest electricity tariff that £40 quid could fuel the EV for over 2000 miles (charging over-night without needing to make any effort in either visiting a fuel station, spending time filling up and paying for the fuel). Only when on a trip of over 250 miles do I need to pay an arm and a leg to charge at a public charge point - but I can put up with that because it is only likely to occur a handful of times in a year. It will occur at the back end of next month and again in July.

I only changed to the EV because I had a bit of a wind-fall, so spent it. I’ve not run anything close to a new car since 1987 - and this one was not new. It was expensive for me, mind, but I won’t be buying another like it, to keep it company.

What hisses me off is those that don’t wish to change, but slag off every EV out there. It’s usually (but not all) those that are petrol-heads by nature, or the below-average contingent that seem to believe any ofthe conspiracy theories going (remember that, mathematically, 50% of the population is below average - by definition).

I’ve run ICE road vehicles, of one description or another, since 1964. I’ve (only) just changed to an EV. I know what the ICE car (it replaced) has cost over the time we have owned it and I have a good idea of what this EV will cost. I am fully aware it will depreciate more than my previous vehicles, but that will be what it will be - I am not really going to bother about that. It should outlast me and will likely be passed to one of my children.

 

[Agrismith]

An ev would be perfect for my wife however between the facts she can't remember to fill up with petrol and that she can't remember to charge her phone I think there might be a problem. That and the fact they are unaffordable at the moment. We buy second hand budget brands and the maths on an ev just doesn't work out for us at the moment. Especially buying second hand we will have to see their long term life.

@northwest

I get your frustration - I also get the "range anxiety" thing...

As it stands: Your full EV comes today - set up for local journeys and home charging - small city car (and this suits the current tech) or you buy into £100k cars with the power and a workable range.

---------

Last two working BMW i3 and i8 cars I found myself having to deliver - I just loaded them up on a 7.5ton diesel tilt and slide truck to save myself the agrivation.

Small petrol engined cars are where it is at - but nobody wants a tiny lightweight car - they all want a huge car to drive about on there own in.

We crossed this bridge in times gone past - when OPEC was formed in Sept 1960 in Baghdad, Iraq and we had to start to pay thru the nose for fuel. A rash of mini cars came - tiny lightweight things. We been thru this before - the answer was about 60+ years ago.

It amazes me how well they can engineer small cars if they want. I got a VW up as a courtesy car the other day and it was a really impressive piece of engineering. It's a small car but so spacious inside. More leg room than the new defenders or Discovery's yet would nigh on fit in their boot.
Everything is too big. I could do at some point with a new pickup but they are all so big in comparison to my old truck.
I would love a Tata bolero would do everything I need. Light off road work and Carry a chunk of tools. I don't need something the size of a lorry

 

[Cato]

"Electric vehicles are rubbish, they're no good to anyone."
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."

Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.

 

[daleyd]

AC is not heat.

Last year I was stuck on the M6 for five odd hours and it was freezing. Its not that rare an occurrence. During that snow we had earlier this year, some were stuck in their cars overnight.

Yes I know I was agreeing with you. When we wrote our list of reasons for not owning an ev there were quite a few, but being stuck on the road for 5 hours didn’t even cross our minds. I’ve been driving for 30 odd years, pretty much all of those well over 30-40k miles a year and it’s never happened.

I assume it’s been a thing in a newspaper at some point because when we got an ev it was one of the first things my father in law asked about.

When I asked him how often it happened to him in 60 years of driving he replied “well never”.

 

[Barking Mat]

Daughter told me Sunday the biggest problem to her is that horses get really spooked by electric cars as they don't make any noise.

My mates got a Tesla and has no problems plugging in anywhere.

That's all I know about leccy cars in a nutshell.

 

[northwest]

What hisses me off is those that don’t wish to change, but slag off every EV out there. It’s usually (but not all) those that are petrol-heads by nature, or the below-average contingent that seem to believe any ofthe conspiracy theories going (remember that, mathematically, 50% of the population is below average - by definition).

I don't see why you are bringing the intellectual capacity of the population at large into the EV discursion, it is totally irrelevant though you WILL need a bit of gumption if you own an EV right now. THe point I am making and I think I am making it badly is this: We are being sold a pup. The infrastructure is quite simply not there, not yet and by forcing people into a corner you are not "selling a dream" you are p1$$ing people off AND causing real upset and hardship. The very first thing that needs to happen is an aggregator needs to be built to incorporate all the different Apps that we are forced to have, there you go, build the "Just Eat" of EV Apps and make your fortune. This is a real opportunity.
No, right now the people are being conned. Being conned into believing they are saving the world by driving a vehicle driven by Lithium Ion batteries. Total cobblers. Yes, there are a couple of people here who power their UV's using Solar, by and large the members of this forum are of above average capability and can work out practical engineering problems and come up with simple solutions. Not everybody can.

Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.

No, there is no binary stance anymore only a rainbow painted with shades of Grey :-)

 

[GRW]

"Electric vehicles are rubbish, they're no good to anyone."
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."

Neither statement is true yet they seem to be the default entrenched positions. Like so many discussions it ends up being described as a binary right/wrong scenario. Ah for those halcyon days of nuance.

Much better perhaps to say that Electric Vehicles are expensive and present operational difficulties to many.
Also that EV's costs are well beyond the means of a great many, not just the very high purchase prices, but the high depreciation, and the unaffordable repair costs in the event of any breakdown.
EV's are a gamble that a great many of us simply cannot afford to take, as the bet is a sum we cannot afford to lose.
High stakes gambles are for the very foolish, or the very wealthy!

 

[northwest]

^^^^^ one of the best posts in this thread, sums it all up nicely. The only reason my son got the car is it is very heavily subsidised for him and it really is a no brainer, if I could get the same deal I would jump at it. However, the practicalities of it won't work for me, I would need a second vehicle :-( So I might as well just stay with the one vehicle that does it all.

As a side note, in my youth I helped maintain my family's fleet of 28 electric Milk Floats so I am not new to electric vehicles, in fact I probably have more experience of electrics than any two people on here and it is a racing certainty I have spent more hours in one. So I am not unfamiliar with the concept or use of electrics and very familiar with the shortcomings. I also have the scars to show how you shouldn't do certain things with electric vehicles, I have had traction batteries blow up on me, set on fire in front of me and leak a good quantity of H2SO4 everywhere all without warning! Okay, Lithium don't leak Sulphuric but they DO burn with an intensity unmatched by any other battery.
I also have plenty of experience with the vagaries of charging them up.

 

[knighty]

I have an i-pace, just coming up to 3 years of ownership
It has phenominal performance, range around 250miles, comfortable and plenty of leg room
Have put about 30k on it and it's been fault free apart from a failed inverter that charges the auxiliary battery
It's going next week or so as its a lease car, not planning on replacing it, nothing to do with it being electric it's just that new cars do not go with my lifestyle as I treat my cars as a van. Picked up an hydraulic press off a forum member and he was a little surprised at me stuffing it into the back of the Jag
Have done some big trips and used lots of public chargers, only had an issue once or twice finding a free working charger

oh missed your post earlier

that sounds really good, looking forward to test driving one :-)

 

[daleyd]

Much better perhaps to say that Electric Vehicles are expensive and present operational difficulties to many.
Also that EV's costs are well beyond the means of a great many, not just the very high purchase prices, but the high depreciation, and the unaffordable repair costs in the event of any breakdown.
EV's are a gamble that a great many of us simply cannot afford to take, as the bet is a sum we cannot afford to lose.
High stakes gambles are for the very foolish, or the very wealthy!

I’m neither wealthy or foolish (well not in my eyes anyway) but to answer a few points:

Depreciation - similar or less than an equivalent ice car

Expensive failure - the same as any modern ice vehicle, with the addition of an 8 year as opposed to 3 year warranty on battery/drive system (eg engine/gearbox on ice)

I’ve said before that we bought an ev with an open mind, and no preconceptions. We spent the same amount as we would have spent on an ice car - of course if we aren’t in a position to buy a new car then we might have made a different choice, but there you go. Not for everyone (certainly if you aren’t able to home charge then it would be a non starter) but also if you take an objective view they aren’t quite as bad as some folk would have you think.

 

[pressbrake1]

That’s OK. Everyone to their own. Live and let live. Our remaining ICE car cost less than £500 nearly 5 years ago and is still going strong. That £40 would take me 400 miles in my ICE car.

At the cheapest electricity tariff that £40 quid could fuel the EV for over 2000 miles (charging over-night without needing to make any effort in either visiting a fuel station, spending time filling up and paying for the fuel). Only when on a trip of over 250 miles do I need to pay an arm and a leg to charge at a public charge point - but I can put up with that because it is only likely to occur a handful of times in a year. It will occur at the back end of next month and again in July.

I only changed to the EV because I had a bit of a wind-fall, so spent it. I’ve not run anything close to a new car since 1987 - and this one was not new. It was expensive for me, mind, but I won’t be buying another like it, to keep it company.

What hisses me off is those that don’t wish to change, but slag off every EV out there. It’s usually (but not all) those that are petrol-heads by nature, or the below-average contingent that seem to believe any ofthe conspiracy theories going (remember that, mathematically, 50% of the population is below average - by definition).

I’ve run ICE road vehicles, of one description or another, since 1964. I’ve (only) just changed to an EV. I know what the ICE car (it replaced) has cost over the time we have owned it and I have a good idea of what this EV will cost. I am fully aware it will depreciate more than my previous vehicles, but that will be what it will be - I am not really going to bother about that. It should outlast me and will likely be passed to one of my children.

What make is your ev?

 

[Barking Mat]

@northwest

I get your frustration - I also get the "range anxiety" thing...

As it stands: Your full EV comes today - set up for local journeys and home charging - small city car (and this suits the current tech) or you buy into £100k cars with the power and a workable range.

---------

Last two working BMW i3 and i8 cars I found myself having to deliver - I just loaded them up on a 7.5ton diesel tilt and slide truck to save myself the agrivation.

Small petrol engined cars are where it is at - but nobody wants a tiny lightweight car - they all want a huge car to drive about on there own in.

We crossed this bridge in times gone past - when OPEC was formed in Sept 1960 in Baghdad, Iraq and we had to start to pay thru the nose for fuel. A rash of mini cars came - tiny lightweight things. We been thru this before - the answer was about 60+ years ago.

A good Tesla 400 hp ? Was €52k a couple of years ago.

 

[pressbrake1]

I’m neither wealthy or foolish (well not in my eyes anyway) but to answer a few points:

Depreciation - similar or less than an equivalent ice car

Expensive failure - the same as any modern ice vehicle, with the addition of an 8 year as opposed to 3 year warranty on battery/drive system (eg engine/gearbox on ice)

I’ve said before that we bought an ev with an open mind, and no preconceptions. We spent the same amount as we would have spent on an ice car - of course if we aren’t in a position to buy a new car then we might have made a different choice, but there you go. Not for everyone (certainly if you aren’t able to home charge then it would be a non starter) but also if you take an objective view they aren’t quite as bad as some folk would have you think.

Modern ice cars have serious amounts of electronics bombarded with heat, oil, coolant etc. German cars are total junk
I like the mrs little leaf , I like everything about it apart from the small battery that’s non thermally managed . I like that the firmware is open source now . I’m comfortable with with inverters encoders and high power electric motors. I like that it’s not a German car which suffer from dog unreliable but with a nice interior and pleasing door clunk

 

[indy4x]

A.C. is always optional
How about heat in winter ? 4 hours standing still is average ?
Can someone come by with 5 gallons of fuel ?

Obviously not, but in reality I can't remember the last time I was standing still in winter for anywhere near that length of time

Given that it's got an 80kw battery pack, pretty sure it would take way more than 4 hours to flatten the batteries even in winter

Probably 12 years ago I got caught in an almighty jam and didn't move for 2 hours

These are all of the myths that seem to be spread about EV's

Not saying they are perfect, whatever vehicle you have is a compromise