Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

Modern ice cars have serious amounts of electronics bombarded with heat, oil, coolant etc. German cars are total junk
I like the mrs little leaf , I like everything about it apart from the small battery that’s non thermally managed . I like that the firmware is open source now . I’m comfortable with with inverters encoders and high power electric motors. I like that it’s not a German car which suffer from dog unreliable but with a nice interior and pleasing door clunk

The Leaf is the only concept of EV I might consider if my circumstances fitted (I.e. if I was retired, only needed a car for short journeys, with no difficulty charging it at home etc... and with a chance if it being repairable and kept operational at reasonable cost).

(All of which is why the Nissan Leaf in the iteration you have is almost certainly a very endangered species! A sustainable, affordable EV? That simply won't do )

 

[GRW]

You’ve made the right choice for your circumstances as have I.

I wouldn’t presume you to be either poor or super intelligent for making such a choice, not sure why you would think I would be stupid or wealthy for not making the same choice as yourself?

They are of course not going to be a top choice for someone looking for a sub £1000 workhorse but you are not comparing apples with apples there. I wouldn’t comment on a thread asking for advice on “what car can I get for £1000” and suggest a new ev. That would be madness.

I wasn't implying anything about you - I was offering a different opinion and supporting it with why I think so.

My main point though - is that I AM comparing "apples with apples". As stated, any new car doesn't actually fulfill its purpose as a mode of transport better than my old car - they do the same job.... its just mine does it for a fraction of the cost.
A car - is a car. Its transportation.
The difference - is the cost, not what they do.
Arguably, I could drive from Lands End to John O' Groats, more easily and in less time, requiring less detours and downtime, than you could in your EV.... using those metrics, my vehicle is objectively superior, for perhaps 30-50x less money.

 

[GRW]

Out of interest do you mean “getting from A to B in a given elapsed time”?

Not specifically, but (see above reply to @daleyd - its certainly a valid benchmark (though I'd say applies more over greater distances). Traffic, Scameras etc make ultimate machine performance metrics (top speed, acceleration etc) largely irrelevant - but downtime & detours to refuel have a marked impact.

Of course, the Remedial Parasitic Cockroaches that masquerade as Politicians are steadily hamstringing the usefulness of the genuinely "good" cars by restricting or charging draconian amounts for the city exclusion zones for those who need to live in or enter cities.

 

[daleyd]

I wasn't implying anything about you - I was offering a different opinion and supporting it with why I think so.

My main point though - is that I AM comparing "apples with apples". As stated, any new car doesn't actually fulfill its purpose as a mode of transport better than my old car - they do the same job.... its just mine does it for a fraction of the cost.
A car - is a car. Its transportation.
The difference - is the cost, not what they do.
Arguably, I could drive from Lands End to John O' Groats, more easily and in less time, requiring less detours and downtime, than you could in your EV.... using those metrics, my vehicle is objectively superior, for perhaps 30-50x less money.

Why even suggest that buying an ev is for the foolhardy or wealthy then? Or did you not say that?

Yes well done, you’ve bought a vehicle for you circumstances, which suits you perfectly and as you say, is objectively superior to my choice. I spend quite some time away from home and need a “new” (ish) vehicle to convey my wife and children around, ideally in comfort with some kind of warranty because I may or may not be around to sort things like fixing it because I am not there.

Now, I could, but I won’t, ask her to drive around in a 30 year old ford escort because of course that would do the job. But that’s not really going to happen. People buy new cars, and those cars will in time get passed down to other users. It’s the way of life and is the reason you get to drive around in your “superior vehicles”.

But it’s still not comparing apples with apples, whichever way you spin it.

 

[Smallfry]

Yes I know I was agreeing with you. When we wrote our list of reasons for not owning an ev there were quite a few, but being stuck on the road for 5 hours didn’t even cross our minds. I’ve been driving for 30 odd years, pretty much all of those well over 30-40k miles a year and it’s never happened.

I assume it’s been a thing in a newspaper at some point because when we got an ev it was one of the first things my father in law asked about.

When I asked him how often it happened to him in 60 years of driving he replied “well never”.

I used to do that sort of mileage too. I have had it happen to me three times that I can remember. Once the incident I quoted, another one, also on the M6 due to a fatal accident, and another on the M1 and M25 due to an incident at the Dartford crossing. This was in the late 90s, and was due to a jumper on the bridge.

Both of these were in the summer though, and there have been a fair few long hold ups of a couple of hours.

 

[minimutly]

My car is plugged in when I am at home, if the sun is out the solar panels are charging the car for free,
overnight I have a 4.5p per unit rate, the car will do 5.5 miles per kwh
I come out of the house each day to a fully charged car, do 80 or so miles a day, and repeat,
its a pain using a normal car where I have to wait for a pump to come free to refill,

“if the sun shines”
And how much is our government charging you per mile atm?
And how much did it cost you to feel so smug?
(Don’t take this the wrong way - any time you can afford to use our leader’s plans to your advantage you should use it...

 

[northwest]

ask her to drive around in a 30 year old ford escort

Who the hell can afford 30 year old Ford Escorts?

 

[GRW]

Why even suggest that buying an ev is for the foolhardy or wealthy then? Or did you not say that?

Yes well done, you’ve bought a vehicle for you circumstances, which suits you perfectly and as you say, is objectively superior to my choice. I spend quite some time away from home and need a “new” (ish) vehicle to convey my wife and children around, ideally in comfort with some kind of warranty because I may or may not be around to sort things like fixing it because I am not there.

Now, I could, but I won’t, ask her to drive around in a 30 year old ford escort because of course that would do the job. But that’s not really going to happen. People buy new cars, and those cars will in time get passed down to other users. It’s the way of life and is the reason you get to drive around in your “superior vehicles”.

But it’s still not comparing apples with apples, whichever way you spin it.

I'm sorry if I offended - it wasn't my intention.
What I said though, was that the expense of a new EV, with the risk factor of its ownership cost, was too big a gamble for many to take.
"The only gamble worth taking, is the one you can afford to lose".
Obviously, you can afford it, & are happy with your gamble.
I made a much smaller wager with my cheap "banger" & I'm happy with mine.

(I still think the odds favour my choice, in virtually all aspects btw, with me losing out on very little on what a new EV (or ICE) offers/provides in real terms - while making a much lower investment. I do wonder just how many miles you'd have to do in an EV versus my cars 36mpg before the break-even point was reached, and the (likely) 40k-ish extra Spend was recouped?)

My main problem - is that the newer used ICE & Hybrid/EV vehicles and their adoption, means that reliable, affordable used vehicles will become a thing of the past (as the risk factor/gamble stakes will skyrocket due to the built-in obsolescence & very high, hi-tech repair & mtce costs of a modern car).
My method of getting reasonable cosy transport... is being systematically eradicated.

 

[brewdexta]

On our 3rd EV, only had one small issue. Servicing is much cheaper than ICE. Most of the "unrepairable" comments are myths.

3rd party charging networks and apps can be an occasional issue but by and large, no problems if you sign up before you get to the charging station. It's a bit like people in a long queue at the supermarket suddenly realising they need to pay and their purse is at the bottom of their bag

Our latest Leaf has a heat pump for heating, so more economical. But, we never had an issue with the previous Leaf that didn't.

Infrastructure wise, yes, they should have spent all the dosh wasted on "smart" motorways on the sewerage and electrical infrastructure. But it's coping at the moment.

 

[addjunkie]

Ive considered going to one work horse, and one shopping trolley electric, and charge it on our holiday cottages….business cost you see! But Id not buy a used one out of warrenty. The Kia is what I was looking into seems sensible money and range.

At the weekend we had this conversation. The guy I was talking to can afford cash money what ever he wants and some…..But his current view Ill never own a car or pick up again. They will all be leased, his logic, I replace my pc every 2 to 3 years, as electronic jiggery pokery fails and rapidly goes out of date. Cars are now the same full of electronic jiggery pokery.

 

[bricol]

Who the hell can afford 30 year old Ford Escorts?

Couple of years ago when taking my 30 odd year old Lancia for MOT, and some clown also there for an MOT referenced "rust" - so I pointed out they rusted no worse, no better, than other cars of the same ilk - how many 30 yr old Escorts do you see in regular use?

When a 30 yr old Escort came in for MOT . . .

 

[bricol]

I wasn't implying anything about you - I was offering a different opinion and supporting it with why I think so.

My main point though - is that I AM comparing "apples with apples". As stated, any new car doesn't actually fulfill its purpose as a mode of transport better than my old car - they do the same job.... its just mine does it for a fraction of the cost.
A car - is a car. Its transportation.
The difference - is the cost, not what they do.
Arguably, I could drive from Lands End to John O' Groats, more easily and in less time, requiring less detours and downtime, than you could in your EV.... using those metrics, my vehicle is objectively superior, for perhaps 30-50x less money.

But a Moggy Minor would do the same job too . . .

And probably a Model T . . .

I run mostly older cars - and my 16 yr old Alfa, 30odd year old Lancia and Pug 106 are certainly not in the same league of comfort, performance and crash safety as a more modern equivalent. And while I maintain mine myself, for someone who simply treats a car as mobile white goods, ie get in, go . . . a modern car is way better than having to have an older car maintained, probably at more expense as there are fewer/no spares around, never mind keeping up with corrosion issues, failing seals etc. Peace of mind is worth a lot to some.

 

[bricol]

I'm an ICE enthusiast - but electric is coming.

I would suggest the current (ha!) issues with charging could be equated to the problems with availability of petrol for the early motorist - limited supplies in random places.

 

[aesmith]

For those who do longish journeys in their EVs, what sort of mileage do you get at motorway speeds? I seem to remember seeing that it drops quite a bit from the "combined" figure quoted by manufacturers.

 

[atomant48]

For those who do longish journeys in their EVs, what sort of mileage do you get at motorway speeds? I seem to remember seeing that it drops quite a bit from the "combined" figure quoted by manufacturers.

300 is achievable in my T. Like most cars (I suspect) fairly big difference between 60-70 and 75. Longest journey I would do on a regular basis is from home to the farm in Yorkshire - that’s 260 door to door. But folk shouldn’t be driving that far non-stop so a coffee stop half way to top up the battery makes it a stress free range !

 

[brewdexta]

For those who do longish journeys in their EVs, what sort of mileage do you get at motorway speeds? I seem to remember seeing that it drops quite a bit from the "combined" figure quoted by manufacturers.

The missus cruises around 70mph, when the M62 allows it, on her weekly commute to the other side of Leeds, it doesn't seem to impact her mileage much but we aren't really into comparing it to quoted figures. All I know is that she can do the trip and have over half a charge left, I think its a 90 mile round trip. So that would indicate somewhere around 200+ range and I think it's supposed to be 230 mile really world and 260 mile on a bowling green at 56mph

 

[aesmith]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

 

[aesmith]

300 is achievable in my T. Like most cars (I suspect) fairly big difference between 60-70 and 75. Longest journey I would do on a regular basis is from home to the farm in Yorkshire - that’s 260 door to door. But folk shouldn’t be driving that far non-stop so a coffee stop half way to top up the battery makes it a stress free range !

Thanks. The longest we do is 500 miles door to door, a couple of times a year. It normally takes 9 hours including a lunch stop, so just over 8 hours driving. I looked at on of those EV route planners, told it we would be driving an MG4 (280 mile nominal range), and it reckoned three charging stops would be needed.

 

[brewdexta]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

Exactly, if you want a bigger battery they force you to buy the hot hatch version with 0-60 in 4 seconds with genuine artificial leather and at £££ when all I want is more range.

 

[pressbrake1]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

All cars have more power these days, remember when a 130 bhp rs turbo was a fast , now 130hp on a bike is a bit lame!
Small electric cars are 130-160 hp . I would think this is to give a linear and useful power range as there are no gears except for a couple like the Porsche