Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[aesmith]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

 

[aesmith]

300 is achievable in my T. Like most cars (I suspect) fairly big difference between 60-70 and 75. Longest journey I would do on a regular basis is from home to the farm in Yorkshire - that’s 260 door to door. But folk shouldn’t be driving that far non-stop so a coffee stop half way to top up the battery makes it a stress free range !

Thanks. The longest we do is 500 miles door to door, a couple of times a year. It normally takes 9 hours including a lunch stop, so just over 8 hours driving. I looked at on of those EV route planners, told it we would be driving an MG4 (280 mile nominal range), and it reckoned three charging stops would be needed.

 

[brewdexta]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

Exactly, if you want a bigger battery they force you to buy the hot hatch version with 0-60 in 4 seconds with genuine artificial leather and at £££ when all I want is more range.

 

[pressbrake1]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

All cars have more power these days, remember when a 130 bhp rs turbo was a fast , now 130hp on a bike is a bit lame!
Small electric cars are 130-160 hp . I would think this is to give a linear and useful power range as there are no gears except for a couple like the Porsche

 

[dobbslc]

"Electric vehicles are rubbish, they're no good to anyone."
"Electric vehicles are the future, they're perfect for everyone."

This sounds like a line out of the book 1984

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

I've wondered the same thing! If they're meant to be the "new environment friendly" thing why aren't they more like normal cars in performance?
Mate has a 2 year old iPace with something like 400bhp, Mental!
Someone was asking about them in this thread, I'll say it's very nice indeed and well worth a test drive if you need a 2 ton car with 20" wheels and electric everything!
The marketing plebs are running the asylum with these new electric cars, everything MUST be bigger, faster, have more useless tech than the last one and manufacturers in general as stated earlier are making them more unreliable to cut their costs and force the people (majority) that couldn't fit a light bulb buy new new new.
I'll stick with my 26 year old 3.0 diesel Surf until it's crashed, stolen or forced off the roads by the money grabbers in government at which point I'll be tempted to park it outside Khan's house and burn it

 

[daleyd]

I'm sorry if I offended - it wasn't my intention.
What I said though, was that the expense of a new EV, with the risk factor of its ownership cost, was too big a gamble for many to take.
"The only gamble worth taking, is the one you can afford to lose".
Obviously, you can afford it, & are happy with your gamble.
I made a much smaller wager with my cheap "banger" & I'm happy with mine.

(I still think the odds favour my choice, in virtually all aspects btw, with me losing out on very little on what a new EV (or ICE) offers/provides in real terms - while making a much lower investment. I do wonder just how many miles you'd have to do in an EV versus my cars 36mpg before the break-even point was reached, and the (likely) 40k-ish extra Spend was recouped?)

My main problem - is that the newer used ICE & Hybrid/EV vehicles and their adoption, means that reliable, affordable used vehicles will become a thing of the past (as the risk factor/gamble stakes will skyrocket due to the built-in obsolescence & very high, hi-tech repair & mtce costs of a modern car).
My method of getting reasonable cosy transport... is being systematically eradicated.

I’m not in the slightest bit offended, I just thought it an odd reason to judge people.

New cars have been sold since they’ve been invented, it’s what fuels the second hand cars that other people buy. People buy what’s offered to them, I guess that’s progress.

I’m trying to add some facts to the discussion and dispel some of the myths around ev ownership, from my real world experience. I don’t think it helps any discussion to repeat stuff that simply isn’t true or to invent problems that don’t exist to try and justify your own choice.

It’s of course an absolute given that choosing a secondhand cheap runaround will ultimately lose you less money than running a new car, but as I’ve said that’s your choice, and mine is different. I don’t think it’s a competition too who can spend the least, it’s making the best of your own situation. What I can say is the equivalent ice vehicle we were looking at was similar asking price and more expensive running costs, so for us changing to eV made sense. I wasn't in the market for a 1k runaround so comparing figures from that scenario made no sense.

 

[not done it yet]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

“Seems like”

Seems to me that you have not actually bothered to fully check out the market?

There are quite a few below 200HP.

At the same time, the horse power is not that important. The Nissan leaf, for instance, may have a 150HP motor but only does about 90mph or so. UK national speed limit is 70mph?

I most certainly do not use all the available horse power of mine at every opportunity! My wife complains loudly if I use too much torque!

200 horse power ICE vehicles are common - and most will exceed the top speed of equivalent powered EVs.
The reason is likely that torque is a far more useful measure of performance. EVs produce more torque at low speed than at higher speeds, whereas ICE engines have vey different power and torque curves. Unsurprisingly, then, the two (EV and ICE) are not directly comparable.

You may not have noticed that EVs utilise a single-reduction gear box whereas ICE vehicles require multi-ratio gearboxes to gain any useful power/torque utilisation.

That lot means that your comment bears no real connection between EV and ICE. Just compare EV with EV wrt motor power (compare apples with apples, not apples with oranges).

 

[not done it yet]

Thanks. The longest we do is 500 miles door to door, a couple of times a year. It normally takes 9 hours including a lunch stop, so just over 8 hours driving. I looked at on of those EV route planners, told it we would be driving an MG4 (280 mile nominal range), and it reckoned three charging stops would be needed.

That, I expect, is to take into account the usual recommendation of using the middle 60% of the battery storage on a regular basis. Along with the road safety suggestions, for rest periods, during long journeys. Along with the simple fact that charging rates beyond about 80% generally reduce above that level. Along with ‘nominal range being just that - nominal. In addition it may take into account suitable charging points on your particular journey?

Is that sufficient to enlighten you? I’m afraid you ‘seem’ to know very little about EV technology, give the impression you don’t really want to learn and have an aversion to even considering adopting future road travel development.

If you think those two journeys are that important, as to require an ICE vehicle, perhaps considering hiring one for those isolated events might prove to be more economical than continuing with your present ICE only strategy.

 

[optima21]

By the way, why do electric cars have to have such huge motors? It seems like even the smallest have 200HP or more. Is it the case that irrespective of economy, energy saving or environmental concerns, a car simply can't be marketed unless it's faster that anything the customer has owned before?

the last trolley buses in Bradford (around 50 years go) used motors ranging from 100 to 150hp and could move 50 people about. so if you want to save the planet, ditch the EV's and bring back the trolley bus.

 

[not done it yet]

the last trolley buses in Bradford (around 50 years go) used motors ranging from 100 to 150hp and could move 50 people about. so if you want to save the planet, ditch the EV's and bring back the trolley bus.

And how fast did they travel at full speed? 20mph?

Try another, better, analogy. One that is relevant, if you could find one. Public transport can always be more economical than individual travel (except for push-bikes - and they usually only carry two people at most). Try applying regular public transport for rural areas and the scheme is likely to fall into administration - unless ‘regular’ means ‘not very often’.

 

[optima21]

and

And how fast did they travel at full speed? 20mph?

Try another, better, analogy. One that is relevant, if you could find one. Public transport can always be more economical than individual travel (except for push-bikes - and they usually only carry two people at most). Try applying regular public transport for rural areas and the scheme is likely to fall into administration - unless ‘regular’ means ‘not very often’.

and why isnt it relevant, my 35year old 1 Litre polo with around 40 bhp can keep up with modern traffic and can sit at 70 on the motorway. Id swap it for a new electric car if you want to give me £30,000 towards the part exchange. and since Ive been driving the car for the last 25 years, its probably done less damage to the environment (and used up less resources) than the owner of cars who gets a new one every 3 years.

 

[dobbslc]

and since Ive been driving the car for the last 25 years, its probably done less damage to the environment (and used up less resources) than the owner of cars who gets a new one every 3 years.

This ^ is another factor the marketing plebs, Gretaistas and government seem to conveniently forget.
A new car every 3 years does no good for the environment.

 

[optima21]

This ^ is another factor the marketing plebs, Gretaistas and government seem to conveniently forget.
A new car every 3 years does no good for the environment.

yeah it would screw the economy up if we had a make do and mend policy, but government policy is driven by making more, and generally people are aspirational and wanting new things to show off. recycling is all well and good but wouldn't it be better if we didn't have to replace things in the first place.

 

[dobbslc]

If everyone bought old Toyota's we wouldn't need to replace anything

 

[fizzy]

The reason modern cars are more powerful is that they are so flipping heavy!
Remember how big American cars used to be? Driving in Florida recently I realised European cars have more than caught up.
My first car was a Rover SD1 - it was huge for it's day and yet weighed 1300kg. A Vauxhall Insignia weighs 1700kg. A Discovery 4 weighs about 2700kg unladen

 

[fizzy]

I have recently read about a problem with one pedal electric cars. Apparently the braking can be quite strong backing off the pedal but the brake lights don't come on. Rather worrying.

 

[dobbslc]

Yes I've come across that but it was a Tesla, not sure if they have this system or his lights were out!

 

[knighty]

I have recently read about a problem with one pedal electric cars. Apparently the braking can be quite strong backing off the pedal but the brake lights don't come on. Rather worrying.

the break lights do come on, not sure who told you that but they're wrong :-)

 

[daleyd]

Ours do over a certain level of deceleration. Same as an ice car if you lift off throttle I guess….

 

[Erie Fred]

If everyone bought old Toyota's we wouldn't need to replace anything

Make them out of stainless steel, being electric, just swap out wheel motors, batteries & controllers every 100k miles or so.
Vehicle gets a re-build.