Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Ubique]

William Heath Robinson who was responsible for the overly complex drawings of unlikely machinery was never a pilot.

There was a chap called Leefe Robinson who was responsible for shooting down the first airship with incendiary bullets.

But not the same person at all.

Best tell whoever made the programme shown on PBS America earlier this evening then. The subtitles had Heath-Robinson....

 

[m_c]

We live in the hills and use regenerative braking every day, our 3 Leafs haven't had any issues with brakes.

Maybe, when on regenerative braking and the friction brakes haven't been used for a while, maybe the system substitutes friction braking for a couple of times. If not, they should do and maybe I should have patented the idea

Something I have noticed is brake discs don't corrode that much on the Renault EVs I've worked on.
We had a couple Kangoo's parked up for a good few months, and when they finally got moved, there was little corrosion on the discs.
Any other vehicle would likely struggle to move due to corrosion after sitting that long.
I'm guessing they're using a different spec of cast iron to minimise corrosion.

 

[Ubique]

It is odd really - me and @Ubique - have actually embraced the BEV/PHEV - we trained up to fix them - we tooled up to do the job (you wanna see the collection of kit I now own - red insulated VDE sockets and the like). I even got a "grim reaper rescue scythe" on my workshop wall.

It's not like we are "luddites"....

I paid a lot of my own personal money to get trained up/gear up and insured to repair - this type of vehicle. I did...

I spent 40years in the motor repair trade - I know what a practical usable vehicle is - I do...

I have worked for myself for 38yrs - if I could not do the maths - I would have starved to death by now.

In quiet moments, I often wonder how many BEV trained techs there are in the 'stans, Eastern Europe must have quite a few by now, surely? I've not been to the Balkans, Slovakia, Slovenia, Romania or Bosnia for a few years but I bet they're installing charge points at every Kaufland/Lidl there is...

 

[Ubique]

Something I have noticed is brake discs don't corrode that much on the Renault EVs I've worked on.
We had a couple Kangoo's parked up for a good few months, and when they finally got moved, there was little corrosion on the discs.
Any other vehicle would likely struggle to move due to corrosion after sitting that long.
I'm guessing they're using a different spec of cast iron to minimise corrosion.

Other than pitting due to prevaling weather direction, I'd agree - they seem to be a higher carbon material, less friction than the 'pig Iron' heavy ones but they probably don't need it as there's a lot less energy to dissipate once the regen has had it's fill.

 

[cheb]

EV threads have improved massively in the last few years, they last much longer than they used to.

 

[GRW]

And yet my own experience of owning it is that…
1. it was pretty comparable on price to other ice vehicles we were looking at,
2. has been utterly reliable and convenient (haven’t been to a garage to fill up in 18 months),
3. is fantastically quiet and relaxing to drive,
4. It’s cost me about £1200 less than an equivalent ice vehicle to run over 12 months. And there’s very little servicing in the coming years compared to an ice.
5. 8 year warranty vs 3 for an ice.

You might not think those are compelling reasons, but I wouldn’t make a different choice should I do it again.

1. Any new vehicle is a lot less likely to go wrong when it's new. You haven't mentioned your mileage over the year you've owned the EV, & so of course if you're not doing a lot if miles...
You were looking at a pretty big pricetag ICE then - certainly not a runabout

4. "£1200 less". I wonder if your calcs include depreciation? I suspect not.

5. Let's hope your confidence is justified, & you dont need to find out how good/comprehensive that warranty is.

(A friend ran a biggish, flash-looking Tesla for 3-years. As a small business owner he could "put it thru the books" so take advantage of the incentives, and write off its costs through his accounts etc. Win/win you'd have thought. As soon as the 36-months were up - he went back to an ICE. He told me the build quality of the Tesla was ****, it gave him trouble, & that as soon as he needed to make regular longer journeys (between West Wales & Shropshire as well as his driving around locally on business) the range and faff of away-from-home charging.... was doing his head in. I think his replacement motor is a big M-Series Beemer, with 4 exhaust tailpipes).

 

[brewdexta]

3 Leafs, about 10 to 12k miles a year, zero breakdowns and only one fault requiring service.

 

[daleyd]

1. Any new vehicle is a lot less likely to go wrong when it's new. You haven't mentioned your mileage over the year you've owned the EV, & so of course if you're not doing a lot if miles...
You were looking at a pretty big pricetag ICE then - certainly not a runabout

4. "£1200 less". I wonder if your calcs include depreciation? I suspect not.

5. Let's hope your confidence is justified, & you dont need to find out how good/comprehensive that warranty is.

(A friend ran a biggish, flash-looking Tesla for 3-years. As a small business owner he could "put it thru the books" so take advantage of the incentives, and write off its costs through his accounts etc. Win/win you'd have thought. As soon as the 36-months were up - he went back to an ICE. He told me the build quality of the Tesla was ****, it gave him trouble, & that as soon as he needed to make regular longer journeys (between West Wales & Shropshire as well as his driving around locally on business) the range and faff of away-from-home charging.... was doing his head in. I think his replacement motor is a big M-Series Beemer, with 4 exhaust tailpipes).

Car was 30k - so not a “big flash” motor by any stretch, but it’s decent size family car territory. Our last new car cost more 9 years ago, and again wasn’t a big flash motor, it was a smallish suv.

My reason for choosing a new car is the fact that I am away from home a fair bit, so my missus doesn’t have to faff with sorting stuff when I am away - so well done for keeping up and agreeing that a new car is less likely to go wrong. I feel that in some way that vindicates my choice?

12,000 miles over the year, and depreciation is no better/worse than previous cars we have had. Of course I’ve lost money, as I would have with an equivalent ice car. As we are planning on keeping the car (our last “new” car was 9 years old when we changed it - then the longer we keep it the more it levels out. There was a point last year where I could have sold it for more than I bought it for.

I also hope I don’t find out about the warranty, but you do get that 8 years > 3? If I had to replace the gearbox in the previous car out of warranty then it would have been eye watering. None of what you say is exclusive to ev.

I’m glad to hear your friend has found a choice which works for him. But I’m not him, and I can’t afford to run an m series beemer with 4 tailpipes and the depreciation that goes with it. I am however very happy with my choice and that’s all that matters. As ever, your mileage may vary and I’m certainly not trying to convince anyone they should buy one - I’m just giving an honest opinion form personal experience.

I know that will blow your mind but there you go.

 

[GRW]

3 Leafs, about 10 to 12k miles a year, zero breakdowns and only one fault requiring service.

So far, from anecdotal information & General scuttlebutt - it seems that the Nissan Leaf looks to be the best of the EV bunch tbf.
It's a down-to-earth vehicle that has no pretensions to be a sport car - instead it focuses on the market, user and type of use that best fits in with the technology I think.
Local journey, home-charged only commuting and shopping etc - I'm pretty confident that the demographic & of the Leaf user (& what he/she is looking for in their car) is very different to the high-end Tesla guy "making a statement" & seeing the car as part of their image.

 

[GRW]

Car was 30k - so not a “big flash” motor by any stretch, but it’s decent size family car territory. Our last new car cost more 9 years ago, and again wasn’t a big flash motor, it was a smallish suv.

My reason for choosing a new car is the fact that I am away from home a fair bit, so my missus doesn’t have to faff with sorting stuff when I am away - so well done for keeping up and agreeing that a new car is less likely to go wrong. I feel that in some way that vindicates my choice?

12,000 miles over the year, and depreciation is no better/worse than previous cars we have had. Of course I’ve lost money, as I would have with an equivalent ice car. As we are planning on keeping the car (our last “new” car was 9 years old when we changed it - then the longer we keep it the more it levels out. There was a point last year where I could have sold it for more than I bought it for.

I also hope I don’t find out about the warranty, but you do get that 8 years > 3? If I had to replace the gearbox in the previous car out of warranty then it would have been eye watering. None of what you say is exclusive to ev.

I’m glad to hear your friend has found a choice which works for him. But I’m not him, and I can’t afford to run an m series beemer with 4 tailpipes and the depreciation that goes with it. I am however very happy with my choice and that’s all that matters. As ever, your mileage may vary and I’m certainly not trying to convince anyone they should buy one - I’m just giving an honest opinion form personal experience.

I know that will blow your mind but there you go.

Not at all - I'm perfectly happy with that.

 

[not done it yet]

(A friend ran a biggish, flash-looking Tesla for 3-years. As a small business owner he could "put it thru the books" so take advantage of the incentives, and write off its costs through his accounts etc. Win/win you'd have thought. As soon as the 36-months were up - he went back to an ICE. He told me the build quality of the Tesla was ****, it gave him trouble, & that as soon as he needed to make regular longer journeys (between West Wales & Shropshire as well as his driving around locally on business) the range and faff of away-from-home charging.... was doing his head in. I think his replacement motor is a big M-Series Beemer, with 4 exhaust tailpipes).

(Long past) history as usual.

Tesla will not be a legacy carmaker when compared to Ford, BMW, VW, etc. Tesla has improved their build quality a great deal in the few years they have been producing cars. Their power base has always been that of electronics - where they have excelled over the legacy carmakers. Tesla is catching up to them - just as they are to Tesla nn the electronics front.

In double the time (or likely rather less) interaction, each may well be very much equivalent to the other.

This time-scale? Just 15 years? That is 15 years out of the 150 years of the legacy carmakers. Perhaps you should have given thst some thought before your “historical” recount? Instead of your most recent little rant?

You, with all your arguments, are history and all aspects are improving exponentially. You only have mainly the historical cherries that have picked long ago and gone bad long since. It won’t be long until all your gripes are destined to history. Developmrnt goes on at a pace rather faster than you can think.

Yes, there are still a few issues, but they are reducing all the time. In 30 years time, when nearly all the current (and future) ICE production has expired, the issues will have been sorted - for sure. Make no mistake about that.

 

[GRW]

(Long past) history as usual.

Tesla will not be a legacy carmaker when compared to Ford, BMW, VW, etc. Tesla has improved their build quality a great deal in the few years they have been producing cars. Their power base has always been that of electronics - where they have excelled over the legacy carmakers. Tesla is catching up to them - just as they are to Tesla nn the electronics front.

In double the time (or likely rather less) interaction, each may well be very much equivalent to the other.

This time-scale? Just 15 years? That is 15 years out of the 150 years of the legacy carmakers. Perhaps you should have given thst some thought before your “historical” recount? Instead of your most recent little rant?

You, with all your arguments, are history and all aspects are improving exponentially. You only have mainly the historical cherries that have picked long ago and gone bad long since. It won’t be long until all your gripes are destined to history. Developmrnt goes on at a pace rather faster than you can think.

Yes, there are still a few issues, but they are reducing all the time. In 30 years time, when nearly all the current (and future) ICE production has expired, the issues will have been sorted - for sure. Make no mistake about that.

Keep the faith dude.
I prefer to run my cheap ICE's instead, and wait to see if your faith proves to be be justified (because your last paragraph is all faith & supposition, worded like fact - but really just hope & opinion).
Given that choice is being systematically eliminated - then I hope you're right too - but "history" with vehicles & direction of the last 20-years has to make anyone of independent, objective thought - a sceptic.

 

[brewdexta]

So far, from anecdotal information & General scuttlebutt - it seems that the Nissan Leaf looks to be the best of the EV bunch tbf.
It's a down-to-earth vehicle that has no pretensions to be a sport car - instead it focuses on the market, user and type of use that best fits in with the technology I think.
Local journey, home-charged only commuting and shopping etc - I'm pretty confident that the demographic & of the Leaf user (& what he/she is looking for in their car) is very different to the high-end Tesla guy "making a statement" & seeing the car as part of their image.

The Leaf's achilles heel is the fast charger, it Chademo rather CCS. So less charge points on a run. Looks like rather than change to CCS, they are retiring the Leaf, the newer Nissan Ariya is CCS.

But the wife doesn't just use it for shopping and picking up the kids. She commutes to work, one of her jobs is teaching inner city kids about nature. The teaching is UK wide, her most common gig is about 120 mile round trip but others are down in Kent, Norfolk, Essex, and she's done all these in the Leaf from Yorkshire.

 

[cheb]

So far, from anecdotal information & General scuttlebutt - it seems that the Nissan Leaf looks to be the best of the EV bunch tbf.
It's a down-to-earth vehicle that has no pretensions to be a sport car - instead it focuses on the market, user and type of use that best fits in with the technology I think.
Local journey, home-charged only commuting and shopping etc - I'm pretty confident that the demographic & of the Leaf user (& what he/she is looking for in their car) is very different to the high-end Tesla guy "making a statement" & seeing the car as part of their image.

That's described my older spawn to a T. Uninterested in vehicles, just wants something that starts, goes and stops. Paid c£7K, I think, for a 66 plate Leaf, private sale.

 

[Morris]

Best tell whoever made the programme shown on PBS America earlier this evening then. The subtitles had Heath-Robinson....

Still wrong.

W. Heath Robinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Contrast your acceptance of the PBS documentary with your summary dismissal of the Grauniad link.

 

[GRW]

In the UK, the term "Heath Robinson contraption" - a "description of any unnecessarily complex and implausible contrivance"

One might say that that description, on an EV thread - is most apt!

 

[Ubique]

I was stating my 'source' not saying they were correct - and as for using Wikipedia as an authoritative source (for anything), no better than any other given the ease you, I or anyone with a keyboard and an internet connection can post or edit the pages.
The Grauniad is well known for being the mouthpiece of the liberal-left, oft repeating the 'fact-free' spoutings of their donors.

 

[daleyd]

In the UK, the term "Heath Robinson contraption" - a "description of any unnecessarily complex and implausible contrivance"

One might say that that description, on an EV thread - is most apt!

Ice engine moving parts - 2,000

Ev - about 20

 

[GRW]

Ice engine moving parts - 2,000

Ev - about 20

Key word: "moving"

Care to repost a count using "rare earth minerals"?

 

[Ubique]

Which just goes to show that the number of moving parts is not proportionate to a measure of reliability.
Once you take into account all the moving parts involved, not just those in one traction motor, that are unique to a BEV, it's probably in the 150-200 range.

It's not really relevant though.