Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[slim_boy_fat]

Better add BMWs ICE cars to the list, the engines shatter and burst into flames.

BBC finds police BMWs at risk of exploding still on the roads

PC Nick Dumphreys' widow Kathryn says cars being used with the fault that killed him are "not safe".

www.bbc.co.uk

What's that got to do with EVs?

 

[brewdexta]

What's that got to do with EVs?

People keep harking on about EVs setting on fire, so added that for a bit of balance. Same with my comment about rare earth metals

 

[willie.macleod]

Just saw an article saying EVs have been banned from Norwegian Ferries since earlier this year - it's not just the Highlands and Islands who see them as dangerous cargo @cheb

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

ctif.org

I've taken EVs on Calmac ferries for years. There is no issue. You aren't put in any specific locations on the boat and you aren't given any leprous tag to display to warn others how dangerous you are. Getting pole position on the bow ramp as a dangerous load is a bonus as it means you get off the ferry first, particularly important when there is miles of single track road at the other end and a ferry load of vehicles that don't have rear view mirrors. Some of their own ferries have massive lithium batteries for hybrid propulsion systems.

What Calmac are cracking down on is cyclists who try and charge their bike batteries using the onboard sockets - they really don't like that and there are warnings on the sockets they are not to be used for that purpose. Never tried plugging my granny chargers in with an extension, that would really upset them I think

 

[DanZac]

What Calmac are cracking down on is cyclists who try and charge their bike batteries using the onboard sockets

Is that because of the fire risk, or because they're nicking their electricity?

 

[willie.macleod]

It's deemed acceptable to nick it for charging lithium batteries for phones or laptops, or at least you generally get off with it. I have no false illusions as to safety of poor designed/tested/built Chinese bike chargers/battery combinations.

 

[Farside]

Well, well, well...

Tesla exaggerated EV range so much that drivers thought cars were broken

Inundated with complaints, Tesla created “Diversion Team” to cancel appointments.

arstechnica.com

 

[cheb]

Just saw an article saying EVs have been banned from Norwegian Ferries since earlier this year - it's not just the Highlands and Islands who see them as dangerous cargo @cheb

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

ctif.org

There's no problem with EVs as such, just damaged ones AIUI. EV's are still allowed on the Calmac ferries to here. IIRC Calmac have a hybrid ferry somewhere on there routes. It doesn't affect me so I didn't read any further than a headline, and a badly remembered one at that.

 

[fizzy]

It wasn't that long ago a lpg converted vehicle took out 1400 cars and a multi storey car park building in Liverpool.

In the old days the firebrigade would have actually entered the building to fight the fire
The blame was laid upon modern cars having plastic fuel tanks rather than lpg.

 

[atomant48]

Well, well, well...

Tesla exaggerated EV range so much that drivers thought cars were broken

Inundated with complaints, Tesla created “Diversion Team” to cancel appointments.

arstechnica.com

Folk really need to move on from range defining EVs …. I am disappointed every time I see a new one advertised with range in the headlines.

Anyway in other news I was picked up by a Lyft today driving a Rivian. First time I’ve seen or been in one. Quite cool. A lot like the new (Discovery) I think - my LR recce is not that good.

 

[GRW]

Well, well, well...

Tesla exaggerated EV range so much that drivers thought cars were broken

Inundated with complaints, Tesla created “Diversion Team” to cancel appointments.

arstechnica.com

What a surprise! A ruthless business controlled by a narcissitic Megalomaniac, lies like a cheap watch about what their product is capable of - to get people's money.
Then (when said product fails to meet the promises & is caught-out by its own lies) chooses to deal with it by effectively closing the door in the customers face with a terse "there's nothing wrong with it".

Confidence inspiring eh! I'd hope that any Co that behaves like this fails - as it cannot obtain repeat customers... but of course its CEO has already made a bundle & extracted vast sums - so it'd have no impact on those it should.

Welcome to the future, folks!

The irksome thing here - is that (while arguably a Govt has already failed to protect the people here) there will probably be no proper Govt investigations & penalties applied to the CEO or the Co for "sharp practice"..... because any bad publicity about EV's doesn't fit their narrative.

Let's face it, you can expect inaccuracy from the vague indicator fuel gauge, fed by a Float switch in s 1970's Hillman or whatever - but there's no excuse for gross inaccuracy with electronic algorithms - so there is no way it's not deliberate.
The stated display of average Mpg on my 1998 Skoda is very accurate (when checked manually), yet a 2020's Tesla's is way off?

 

[Ubique]

From my personal experience, it's not just Tesla who are, let's say, 'optimistic' - this could well be the start of the EV version of 'Dieselgate' for manufacturers.

 

[Ton-up]

Sebastien Loeb's Lancia Delta EV Racer Destroyed in Paddock Fire During Charging

A final investigation is underway, but video evidence reportedly shows that the fire started in one car's battery as it was charging.

www.roadandtrack.com

 

[GRW]

Sebastien Loeb's Lancia Delta EV Racer Destroyed in Paddock Fire During Charging

A final investigation is underway, but video evidence reportedly shows that the fire started in one car's battery as it was charging.

www.roadandtrack.com

I've mentioned it before, but the entire grid of the EV race bikes for the "Moto-E" class (run alongside the MotoGP events) - burnt up at a test at Jerez, Spain..... before even the first race could be held, delaying the inaugural race by several months.

Luckily, the track itself & its infrastructure, paddock garages & grandstands etc were untouched..... because (despite the paddock being empty) the Moto-E bikes were all stored in the centre infield in temp shelters, well away from anything else.
(Which obviously points out that someone was well aware of the potential risk of EV fires & the consequences - and made sure the things were kept well clear. Whoever made that sensible call - saved the circuit from being destroyed).

 

[brewdexta]

Fortunately, my missus and the kids are not driving down to London this morning in a formula E or Moto E but in a Nissan Leaf. Strangely, they don't have a habit of spontaneous combustion, although I'm sure somebody will find an isolated case.

Just after I picked up the new Ford Ranger, 3 years ago, I was driving on the M1 near Milton Keynes and hit some traffic. When I got to the head of the queue there was the burnt out carcass of the exact same model of Ranger as the one I was driving.

I didn't immediately sell the Ranger, however there are fire risks with Rangers associated with the HVAC and the DPF. But they are not under the same scrutiny as EVs.....

 

[addjunkie]

Folk really need to move on from range defining EVs …. I am disappointed every time I see a new one advertised with range in the headlines.

Anyway in other news I was picked up by a Lyft today driving a Rivian. First time I’ve seen or been in one. Quite cool. A lot like the new (Discovery) I think - my LR recce is not that good. View attachment 410047

Those Rivians tick a lot of boxes, and look fairly sensible money wise.

 

[GRW]

Fortunately, my missus and the kids are not driving down to London this morning in a formula E or Moto E but in a Nissan Leaf. Strangely, they don't have a habit of spontaneous combustion, although I'm sure somebody will find an isolated case.

Just after I picked up the new Ford Ranger, 3 years ago, I was driving on the M1 near Milton Keynes and hit some traffic. When I got to the head of the queue there was the burnt out carcass of the exact same model of Ranger as the one I was driving.

I didn't immediately sell the Ranger, however there are fire risks with Rangers associated with the HVAC and the DPF. But they are not under the same scrutiny as EVs.....

I've said it before - but it makes sense that there is a correlation between the energy density of the battery & the current load the motors place on the battery in use, & the speed/rate/current when charging.
I dare say a Nissan Leaf is a lot more conservative and therefore a lot less liable to develop a short-circuit fault & ignite.... than a more performance-oriented vehicle would...... quite possibly many, many, many times less likely.

Like most things, used sensibly and within sensible limits - you tend to get safety & reliability.
The "problem" IMO - is that to attract petrol-heads to EV's, they've pushed hard to get ICE type performance & range, and that in turn has really pushed the battery energy density & safety margins too far.... for development OK- but for the consumer & general sale its too much.

EV's natural habitat - is as a runabout, a short distance, low-speed commuter role. Its the role / duty cycle that best suits the power source.
As it stands - the older Leaf is perhaps the only EV I'd consider, because its sensible use of the tech.

 

[premmington]

From my personal experience, it's not just Tesla who are, let's say, 'optimistic' - this could well be the start of the EV version of 'Dieselgate' for manufacturers.

DieselGate for EV's - yeah may well happen.

But extra urban MPG for ICE cars have always been a lie....

 

[reb78]

Those Rivians tick a lot of boxes, and look fairly sensible money wise.

They have hit on something I think. Our problem is the import prices from the US usually blow the budget!

 

[GRW]

I've got an e-Mtb with a Bosch motor & battery.
(The 2023 ones have gone to a "Smart" system - & Surprise! Guess what - lots of reliability issues... but I digress).
There's quite a lot of difference in reliability with the same motor unit.
Some have had to have 1 or more replacement warranty motors within a few months & a few hundred km, while others have done 7000+km without attention.
The motor is limited to 250w output... but HOW you use the motor is IMO a very likely factor.
I.e. because I understand that an electric motor demands a lot more current & it's components get hotter & more stressed under low speed, high-torque loads.... I ride the bike as I would a regular mtb... I use the12 gears to maintain a cadence and motor speed that doesn't load it unnecessarily.
However, I see many people who stick it in a high, slow cadence gear - & just let the motor slog away.
I'm sure that the mechanically unsympathetic riders are the ones that increase the incidence of failure - & that's it's too high a current & heat-cycles through the components that accelerate the demise.

Is there a case for EV's to have gearboxes??

 

[brewdexta]

I've said it before - but it makes sense that there is a correlation between the energy density of the battery & the current load the motors place on the battery in use, & the speed/rate/current when charging.
I dare say a Nissan Leaf is a lot more conservative and therefore a lot less liable to develop a short-circuit fault & ignite.... than a more performance-oriented vehicle would...... quite possibly many, many, many times less likely.

Like most things, used sensibly and within sensible limits - you tend to get safety & reliability.
The "problem" IMO - is that to attract petrol-heads to EV's, they've pushed hard to get ICE type performance & range, and that in turn has really pushed the battery energy density & safety margins too far.... for development OK- but for the consumer & general sale its too much.

EV's natural habitat - is as a runabout, a short distance, low-speed commuter role. Its the role / duty cycle that best suits the power source.
As it stands - the older Leaf is perhaps the only EV I'd consider, because its sensible use of the tech.

Ours is the latest 62kW iteration, circa 230 miles range and 0-60 in about 7 seconds. But as per an ICE car, if you boot it, you use more fuel.

I would disagree with the assumption their natural habitat is for shopping. Maybe not for a road warrior but the missus commutes to work on the other side of Leeds, and we are near Burnley. Last weekend she was in Whitby and today she heading down to London. She'll stop once on the way to charge while getting lunch. Same on the way back.

One thing I hate about EVs is that they don't tend to sell the larger battery sizes unless you buy a top of the range model with all the toys and then they add the extra or larger motor to make it faster. I'm sure many would like a cheaper, slower vehicle with a larger range.