Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Ubique]

DieselGate for EV's - yeah may well happen.

But extra urban MPG for ICE cars have always been a lie....

True, but it's a 'lie' that can be consistently compared across marques & models - i.e. they all have to pass the same test using the same methods (ignoring for now the software hacks), because it's not emissions related, BEV measurements have no single frame of reference for their claimed figures, hence the Tesla 'surprise' findings of excessive optimism. What my parents would have called 'bare-faced lies'.
Never. Trust. A. Salesman.

 

[bricol]

Assuming your tour was post 2002 (when the tunnel re-opened after the fire disaster in 1999)....
Were your group allowed through & permitted to bunch up - or required to maintain a constant (& monitored) low speed, and a large constant distance between your vehicle and the one ahead?
If you were allowed to bunch up in a train - then the tunnel has had its safety rules relaxed considerably from when we used it.

No restrictions at all both times I've used it (the first in 2002, I didn't build the car until 2001). Due to never growing up (why else would you choose to use a 2 seater with little storage space to tour Europe for 2 weeks) there was quite a lot of acceleration and deceleration to make silly noises

 

[bricol]

Just saw an article saying EVs have been banned from Norwegian Ferries since earlier this year - it's not just the Highlands and Islands who see them as dangerous cargo @cheb

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

ctif.org

Same article also points out:

"fires in fossil fuel cars are 4-5 times as common as fires in electric cars."


Didn't Scimitars have a reputation for combusting completely? I do know every time I mentioned I liked them, the usual comment was about fires.

Some years ago, a lot of small drag strips in the US banned electric cars from the Friday night run what ya brung events - bloke in a Tesla with his shopping in the boot could blow away the one who spent his life and savings building a V8 supercharged monster that barely drove on the street. The reason they gave, and much mocked then, was that their fire fighting equipment couldn't deal with the battery fires.

 

[bricol]

Is that because of the fire risk, or because they're nicking their electricity?

Place I work fired (sorry!) a guy who was charging his electric bike at work - was asked to stop, but moved it somewhere he thought was hidden . . . not so much the electric theft, but the fire potential.

 

[GRW]

No restrictions at all both times I've used it (the first in 2002, I didn't build the car until 2001). Due to never growing up (why else would you choose to use a 2 seater with little storage space to tour Europe for 2 weeks) there was quite a lot of acceleration and deceleration to make silly noises

Weirdly, I used it later in 2007 (en route to the Mugello MotoGP) on my XJR1300 - and the restrictions were in place then. 50 or 70kph monitored limit (can't recall which) & a strict minimum gap of (can't recall how much, but quite a bit - there was a wait between seeing the vehicle in front enter, & the barriery
being raised to allow you to start). May 29th, 2007. We'd intented to enter Italy via the mountain pass over Mont Blanc - but it was still closed with snow.

 

[GRW]

Scimitars I think had the fire bomb reputation because of their glassfibre bodies - so they'd "go up" in a much bigger way than a steel bodied car if there was a fire.

Reliant Plastic Pigs were the same. 2 guys I know welded a Pig chassis in a field in case of fire - and sure enough, up it went! If they had been in the shed..... there'd have been no shed.

 

[atomant48]

I've got an e-Mtb with a Bosch motor & battery.
(The 2023 ones have gone to a "Smart" system - & Surprise! Guess what - lots of reliability issues... but I digress).
There's quite a lot of difference in reliability with the same motor unit.
Some have had to have 1 or more replacement warranty motors within a few months & a few hundred km, while others have done 7000+km without attention.
The motor is limited to 250w output... but HOW you use the motor is IMO a very likely factor.
I.e. because I understand that an electric motor demands a lot more current & it's components get hotter & more stressed under low speed, high-torque loads.... I ride the bike as I would a regular mtb... I use the12 gears to maintain a cadence and motor speed that doesn't load it unnecessarily.
However, I see many people who stick it in a high, slow cadence gear - & just let the motor slog away.
I'm sure that the mechanically unsympathetic riders are the ones that increase the incidence of failure - & that's it's too high a current & heat-cycles through the components that accelerate the demise.

Is there a case for EV's to have gearboxes??

Luckily my T doesn’t stay in the slow speed range too much
On a serious note I think you’re bang on re the bikes.

 

[atomant48]

Somewhere back in this thread we were discussing odd tyre wear with EVs. I had an interesting chat with someone last night in a bar. His take was the models which were ICE cars but “converted” to EV were the issues. Guess it is the extra weight and torque characteristics that the suspension was never designed for. His experience was that as manufacturers have designed EV specific chassis the problem is reduced. It sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Ubique]

It may sound reasonable, but not the case, here are both rear tyres of a BEV that's done 13800 miles (second set of tyres) on a RWD vehicle, the front tyres were still the originals and had no cracks in the tread. This isn't a modified ICE floorpan, it's a 'tyres up' freshly designed vehicle.

The moving suspension components of 'repurposed' floorpans have different part numbers to the ICE versions, along with different geometry specifications, the same applies to hybrids.

 

[fizzy]

Burning freight ship was carrying more electric cars than first reported, shipping company says – Car Dealer Magazine

A freight ship that caught fire off the Dutch coast this week was carrying far more electric cars than was first estimated, officials have reported. The

cardealermagazine.co.uk

The ship was carrying far more electric cars than first thought. Almost 500. Cause of fire yet to be established.

 

[Morrisman]

Place I work fired (sorry!) a guy who was charging his electric bike at work - was asked to stop, but moved it somewhere he thought was hidden . . . not so much the electric theft, but the fire potential.

My town, last weeks newspaper.

 

[fizzy]

I see a rail freight firm has switched back to diesel locos as electric ones are too expensive to run.
Makes you wonder why they have spent so much on electricification which is also an eyesore.

DB Cargo UK grounds electric fleet

A negative reaction to Britain’s energy cost crisis has short-circuited the environmental ambitions of another rail freight carrier. This time, it’s DB Cargo UK that…

www.railfreight.com

 

[atomant48]

It may sound reasonable, but not the case, here are both rear tyres of a BEV that's done 13800 miles (second set of tyres) on a RWD vehicle, the front tyres were still the originals and had no cracks in the tread. This isn't a modified ICE floorpan, it's a 'tyres up' freshly designed vehicle.

View attachment 410100
View attachment 410101

The moving suspension components of 'repurposed' floorpans have different part numbers to the ICE versions, along with different geometry specifications, the same applies to hybrids.

You’ll have to educate me as I’m no expert. Is it the cracks in between the tread that’s the issue ? Presume that’s from the torque load “tearing” at the blocks ? I thought the issue in this thread a while back was bald inside shoulders - hence me thinking it was logical if the original chassis/suspension wasn’t really designed for the weight or torque. But no idea really- you guys see many more of these than I do

 

[GRW]

I see a rail freight firm has switched back to diesel locos as electric ones are too expensive to run.
Makes you wonder why they have spent so much on electricification which is also an eyesore.

DB Cargo UK grounds electric fleet

A negative reaction to Britain’s energy cost crisis has short-circuited the environmental ambitions of another rail freight carrier. This time, it’s DB Cargo UK that…

www.railfreight.com

Again- another article which completely incorrectly states that the Electric Loco's are "Zero Emissions"

 

[CornishPete]

I see a rail freight firm has switched back to diesel locos as electric ones are too expensive to run.
Makes you wonder why they have spent so much on electricification which is also an eyesore.

DB Cargo UK grounds electric fleet

A negative reaction to Britain’s energy cost crisis has short-circuited the environmental ambitions of another rail freight carrier. This time, it’s DB Cargo UK that…

www.railfreight.com

Something's not adding up with the whole renewable electric thing. If it's generated for nothing (wind, water, solar etc) is it the infrastructure required to harness it that's proving expensive or are companies just charging too much for electricity that's generated relatively cheaply?

 

[premmington]

Something's not adding up with the whole renewable electric thing. If it's generated for nothing (wind, water, solar etc) 1. is it the infrastructure required to harness it that's proving expensive or 2. are companies just charging too much for electricity that's generated relatively cheaply?

1. It is new infrastructure and it is gonna cost. There is no getting away from this!

2. Well - what is a fair profit for a private company? (My question is - should somethings be state owned - basic infrastruture?)

 

[Ubique]

You’ll have to educate me as I’m no expert. Is it the cracks in between the tread that’s the issue ? Presume that’s from the torque load “tearing” at the blocks ? I thought the issue in this thread a while back was bald inside shoulders - hence me thinking it was logical if the original chassis/suspension wasn’t really designed for the weight or torque. But no idea really- you guys see many more of these than I do

It's both - we see by design /necessity acellerated tyre wear on the shoulders of the tyre due to the geometry required to give the vehicle the stability required for the distribution of the mass.
The tears/cracks between the tread blocks is as you say, due to the application of high torque. These tyres are specific BEV tyres and we generally only see this on single motor vehicles, dual motor vehicles don't suffer as much from this. The vehicle manufacturers are aware of this and have updated (in the main) their drivers manual and Technical Service Bulletins to say it's a consequence of high torque applications (which also deplete the available range) and not a defect - or words to that effect. The tyres in the photos have around 6mm of tread remaining so they are not 'old', they've probably done 3-4,000 miles, but it's 'enthusiastically' pulling out of junctions or traffic light drag racing that can cause early life issues as shown.

 

[rhubarb7]

Folk really need to move on from range defining EVs …. I am disappointed every time I see a new one advertised with range in the headlines.

Anyway in other news I was picked up by a Lyft today driving a Rivian. First time I’ve seen or been in one. Quite cool. A lot like the new (Discovery) I think - my LR recce is not that good. View attachment 410047

Your quote: Folk really need to move on from range defining EVs

Really?!! So it's ok to pay 90 grand for a vehicle that only does half the range of what is claimed.

And then said manufacturer ignores you.

 

[brewdexta]

Again- another article which completely incorrectly states that the Electric Loco's are "Zero Emissions"

It depends how far you want to take it. Shanks's pony isn't emissions free. Apart from the obvious emissions after beer, sprouts or curry, you have to provide calories that have been produced with oil based fertiliser, oil fuelled agricultural vehicles, transport and packaging.

In terms of producing an EV or Electric train, which causes emissions, this has to happen so that people can character assassinate them with fossil fuel industry funded disinformation and memes. If it wasn't for that pastime, some people would be barking at people who passed their gate

We use an electricity tariff that costs a few pence more but purports to use largely renewable energy. So electric trains and car chargers could also use similar schemes.

I'm out of here, I'll stick to the project threads etc.

 

[Morrisman]

It's both - we see by design /necessity acellerated tyre wear on the shoulders of the tyre due to the geometry required to give the vehicle the stability required for the distribution of the mass.
The tears/cracks between the tread blocks is as you say, due to the application of high torque. These tyres are specific BEV tyres and we generally only see this on single motor vehicles, dual motor vehicles don't suffer as much from this. The vehicle manufacturers are aware of this and have updated (in the main) their drivers manual and Technical Service Bulletins to say it's a consequence of high torque applications (which also deplete the available range) and not a defect - or words to that effect. The tyres in the photos have around 6mm of tread remaining so they are not 'old', they've probably done 3-4,000 miles, but it's 'enthusiastically' pulling out of junctions or traffic light drag racing that can cause early life issues as shown.

I've noticed quite a few electric cars tend to tear away from stop, or after slowing down for any reason. Either they're showing off their impressive torque, or they simply don't realise how hard they are hitting it because of the lack of engine sound/ vibration.