Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

London ULEZ expansion scheme.

S Khan - Major. Won in High Court.

Now he has started pouring the free money in.

£2k grant to swap your old car (you used to have to been on benefits - now you don't). £5k to £7k for vans.

 

[GRW]

London ULEZ expansion scheme.

S Khan - Major. Won in High Court.

Now he has started pouring the free money in.

£2k grant to swap your old car (you used to have to been on benefits - now you don't). £5k to £7k for vans.

Cue the same routine as happened with the last Scrappage Scheme then?

The Scheme will be snapped up by those who are in a better position to afford a new car anyway. The low income majority still won't be able to afford the commitment to spend that much on a vehicle.

So the better off will cash in & take the "free money" (aka Our Money thats being handed-out)......
...... and a lot of cars with plenty of life left in them (but very little £ value) will get scrapped.... so that they aren't available any more in thd marketplace to all the people who really need a cheap car!

As usual an initiative that hands taxpayers money out to those who don't need it - and make life more difficult & expensive for those that really do need it.

 

[premmington]

Cue the same routine as happened with the last Scrappage Scheme then?

The Scheme will be snapped up by those who are in a better position to afford a new car anyway. The low income majority still won't be able to afford the commitment to spend that much on a vehicle.

So the better off will cash in & take the "free money" (aka Our Money thats being handed-out)......
...... and a lot of cars with plenty of life left in them (but very little £ value) will get scrapped.... so that they aren't available any more in thd marketplace to all the people who really need a cheap car!

As usual an initiative that hands taxpayers money out to those who don't need it - and make life more difficult & expensive for those that really do need it.

Sadly... @GRW

I have to agree 100% with every point you made above. You make a good arguement against it.

----

But I given this a lot of thought - how else do you attempt to thin out old poluting cars. Financial incentives to scrap them - is really the only tool you got (and it is a blunt tool that favours the wealthy). If you raise the roadtax - the poor can't afford to pay this either. If you create ULEZ zones and make people pay - this is not popular with low income earners. I can see no other way and yes it has shortfalls and shortcomings - it does mate. But I can't honestly see another/better option...

Air quality due to particulates from Diesels is a problem in urban areas - it is...

The problem at the heart of the EV car revolution is - it is too expensive for low earners - EV cars are just too dear (at the moment).

 

[GRW]

With millions of EVs plugged into the grid I guess there will be massive capacity to absorb and store electricity during peak generation periods.

That's assuming there's enough Network Capacity to charge them all up in the first place!

Plus, all those who've stored that energy in their EV's...... will have stored it for their own use - not for anyone else's.

They'll either be unplugging their EV to drive it & deplete it during the day - or to save the stored energy for later..... I really can't see owners being happy to "share" their stored energy on the network, having their battery used longer & cycled more often etc - to want to use their EV as part of a network to sustain an overstrained, over-capacity, creaking network!

More likely - if there's a struggling energy network - you'll see the well-heeled investing in a diesel generator to make sure THEIR house & EV has Energy - they won't be sharing (or saving the planet).

Human nature at work.

 

[GRW]

Sadly... @GRW

I have to agree 100% with every point you made above. You make a good arguement against it.

----

But I given this a lot of thought - how else do you attempt to thin out old poluting cars. Financial incentives to scrap them - is really the only tool you got (and it is a blunt tool that favours the wealthy). If you raise the roadtax - the poor can't afford to pay this either. If you create ULEZ zones and make people pay - this is not popular with low income earners. I can see no other way and yes it has shortfalls and shortcomings - it does mate. But I can't honestly see another/better option...

Future Transport Policy (as its being made by those who already extract 5-figure sums annually for themselves out of the Public Purse) - is demonstrably set to exclude (price out) an exponentially increasing percentage of the population (as you've said).

If they price those with the lowest disposable income out of the car (any car)....then they resolve the issues of congestion & vehicle pollution the easy way (for them that is).

 

[premmington]

Future Transport Policy (as its being made by those who already extract 5-figure sums annually for themselves out of the Public Purse) - is demonstrably set to exclude (price out) an exponentially increasing percentage of the population (as you've said).

If they price those with the lowest disposable income out of the car (any car)....then they resolve the issues of congestion & vehicle pollution the easy way (for them that is).

"Transport poverty"....

The phrase has been about for a very long while now - but in general - most people seem to be in denial about it becoming a reality.

I seen it coming for a long while now...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

The Scheme will be snapped up by those who are in a better position to afford a new car anyway.

Doubt it'll make much difference to the better off...people currently buying are doing it thro the BIK tax relief or the salary sacrifice relief....the scrappage scheme is basically chicken feed and most who can afford it have already swapped their cars for ulez compliant ones anyway.

Old diesels disappeared from my street months ago...replaced mostly with petrols. People who bought EVs did so years ago on the other schemes....they just swap them for new every few years....that what I'm seeing here in West London.

Is it £2k off a "non ulez car....less than 1 month before the deadline? An EV costs £30k-£40k...delivery in a year?....ain't really going sway people I think.

 

[not done it yet]

I fully expect the vehicle being scrapped needs to have an in-date MOT to be considered for the scheme? So quite likely not the ‘really polluting‘ section of old vehicles around?

 

[brewdexta]

Affordable electric dreams come true: Octopus EV unveils second hand salary sacrifice scheme

octopus.energy

 

[My Old Landy]

Affordable electric dreams come true: Octopus EV unveils second hand salary sacrifice scheme

octopus.energy

I wonder what salary you have to be on to get that deal as the article doesn't say?

 

[GRW]

I fully expect the vehicle being scrapped needs to have an in-date MOT to be considered for the scheme? So quite likely not the ‘really polluting‘ section of old vehicles around?

I dare say there are quite a few old but mot'd & serviceable vehicles on the roads who (because they are old & pre-date emissions standards are automatically presumed "dirty" even if they aren't) driving about.

Relatively simple, they are within the realms of the basic home mechanic with basic tools - to keep roadworthy on a budget.... but have kittle monetary value.

These are the vehicles a scrappage scheme will see eliminated from the vehicle market.

2-grand is still a chunk of money.... & there are those who'd buy a "banger" for a few hundred - just to chop it straight in & score £1500 for free. I'm pretty sure there was some of that happening with the last scrappage scheme.

It's akin to taking your serviceable stuff to the tip instead of to a charity or even a car boot sale for someone with less than you to make use of...... & all in the name of "saving the planet".

(Funny, I say I'll not spend money on am EV..... but I am in reality of course. Its just my money goes to subsidise those already with more money - to have an EV).

 

[brewdexta]

I wonder what salary you have to be on to get that deal as the article doesn't say?

Salary sacrifice is a often used if you want to add money to your pension and has been used in the past for cycle to work schemes for buying a bike. There's isn't a salary limit, you just need for your employer to partake in the scheme and take salary at source. If your self employed and pay yourself a wage from the business, then your accountant can sort it for you, or do it yourself.

EDIT, the salary you sacrifice can't take you below the minimum wage, that's the only restriction

Are salary sacrifice car schemes worth it in 2023? - OSV

Are salary sacrifice car schemes worth it? 1 in 4 doesn’t think the idea of salary sacrifice is a positive one. Are they right to think so?

www.osv.ltd.uk

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

2-grand is still a chunk of money.... & there are those who'd buy a "banger" for a few hundred - just to chop it straight in & score £1500 for free.

Yea but I think it's only off a non-ULEZ car...so can't just trade in any car. If he was offering a £2k incentive for people to swap a non-compliant car for a ULEZ car then I'd say that was a genuine push to help the less well off.

Personally I think it's just a publicity stunt...the ULEZ is very unpopular and the mayor has been instructed to go on a charm offensive it seems after the bruising his party got in the local elections recently!

 

[brewdexta]

Before somebody says they wouldn't have a second hand EV because of the battery

This 2018 Tesla Model 3 Passed the 300,000-Mile Mark, Here's What You Need To Know

Tesla Model Y is a relatively new model on the market, so there are few cars with high mileage to show how they cope with abuse over time. Earlier in the...

www.autoevolution.com

There are Teslas on Britain's roads with over 300k miles on the clock

DVSA records show that there are over 700 Teslas on UK roads today with more than 100,000 miles on the clock - and the highest mileage example has more than three times that amount.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[m_c]

2-grand is still a chunk of money.... & there are those who'd buy a "banger" for a few hundred - just to chop it straight in & score £1500 for free. I'm pretty sure there was some of that happening with the last scrappage scheme.

Previous scrappage schemes you had to have had the vehicle registered in your own name for a period of time. IIRC it was 12 weeks.

I know I scrapped my old van on one of Ford's scrappage schemes and got £5k for it, but that wasn't a government scheme.

 

[redlig]

Doubt it'll make much difference to the better off...people currently buying are doing it thro the BIK tax relief or the salary sacrifice relief....the scrappage scheme is basically chicken feed and most who can afford it have already swapped their cars for ulez compliant ones anyway.

Old diesels disappeared from my street months ago...replaced mostly with petrols. People who bought EVs did so years ago on the other schemes....they just swap them for new every few years....that what I'm seeing here in West London.

Is it £2k off a "non ulez car....less than 1 month before the deadline? An EV costs £30k-£40k...delivery in a year?....ain't really going sway people I think.

I doubt it will sway many ,as you said, but it's an nice little bonus for those that had already decided.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I doubt it will sway many ,as you said, but it's an nice little bonus for those that had already decided.

I'm looking at the Octopus deal at the moment...basically I'll get 40% off an EV so pay £24k for a £40k car!

It really is a no brainer I think...another £2k off as you say just adds a cherry on the top .

 

[OJCar]

Seeing some reports that the ULEZ cameras are being cut down by activists in Bromley.

 

[GRW]

Seeing some reports that the ULEZ cameras are being cut down by activists in Bromley.

Can't blame people. It's not so different to when people were breaking Scamera's.

 

[DAPPH]

Think that does not work Pete.
When petrol was sold in cans there were few cars and only the well off had one, now mass transport near impossible for society to function without motor vehicles so infrastructure first is a big requirement

Our first EV came with its own 13 amp plug in at home charger so did all the others only when did the idea of EV take off , did the requirement arise for zillions of public charging stations .. governments would have looked right tawts covering the country with a spiders web of unused heavier chargers that the taxpayers fund . the yapping and yorping about it would have been heard on the moon.

Demand alone will drive the number of charging points , government might step in with incentives & plans if enough entrepreneurs fail to take on the challenge out of their own pockets . But looking as solar PV at home it's not happened only the big boys with the skills & knowledge have the ability to fund & install solar farms and turbine arrays

Snippet of info for those that are interested in EV's might find interesting.

MSN