Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[daleyd]

They have to explore all avenues for fueling transport.

Bevs will be apart of it - city cars.

There is not enough lithium on the planet to fuel 75% of the road transport we have now - let alone fueling a growing world transport market.

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We will see - what I can say is - it will be a changing market place!

From what I can make out - Toyota the planets biggest vehicle manufacturer - are sticking to the concept of PHEVS (correct me if I am wrong).

Ok, you’re wrong

On both counts - vw is the largest manufacturer, and Toyota are now back tracking and playing catch up. The article from below is from feb this year and marks a fundamental shift away from their previous policy towards EV.

Toyota’s new EV plan is a big reality check

Getting drivers to adopt electric vehicles — and buy into the technology transition — will require a fundamental shift in Toyota’s thinking.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Toyota were in danger of becoming another blackberry or Nokia if they persisted, so it seems they’ve had to adapt.

 

[premmington]

Ok, you’re wrong

On both counts - vw is the largest manufacturer, and Toyota are now back tracking and playing catch up. The article from below is from feb this year and marks a fundamental shift away from their previous policy towards EV.

Toyota’s new EV plan is a big reality check

Getting drivers to adopt electric vehicles — and buy into the technology transition — will require a fundamental shift in Toyota’s thinking.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Toyota were in danger of becoming another blackberry or Nokia if they persisted, so it seems they’ve had to adapt.

World Car Group Ranking in 2023 is dominated by Toyota (+3.3%) which maintains a substantial distance from the runner up Volkswagen.

2022 VAG group had the highest sales - but in 2023 Toyota surpassed them to be the worlds largest.

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You would have been right if it was the year 2022 - but it is not...

Also you need to check your facts about Toyota on pure BEVS - they drawing off the idea mate.

 

[GRW]

Put Toyota electric vehicles into your search engine to see their current all battery EV range .

Toyota brought the breakthrough hybrid - the Prius to market I dunno - 20 years ago?
What does the fact that Toyota engage in selling EV's prove exactly (apart from they are a company that has a model to gain sales in a market sector)?
They sell 4x4's too, race in a wide range of Series & categories (inc. with Hydrogen models).
They are a car maker. You cannot be surprised if they sell cars in any profitable sector, surely?

 

[GRW]

Not done it yet. Twisted old c.u.n.t of a keyboard warrior.

I have better things to do than argue with a small minded narcissistic a.r.s.e.h.o.l.e

I've been called a liar several times today and bitten my lip and answered politely to no avail.

And admin do sod all.

This poxy thread started again because I whattsapped a funny photo to Peter and he shared it on here.

And no I don't hate EVs, but most of the owners think they are better than anyone else.

I'm done, admin delete my account please.

Sorry to see that Rhubarb. I hope you change your mind - there's always a few Keyboard Warriors around (& IMO, this forum seems to have mostly respectful people who can disagree & debate without being offensive).

G.

 

[Ubique]

Can't see a BEV "technical" with a 50cal on it working somehow mate...

Can you imagine the state of the vegan leather after 1,000 rounds of hot brass has dropped on it and a couple of barrel swaps?

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

oyota were in danger of becoming another blackberry or Nokia if they persisted, so it seems they’ve had to adapt.

Me thinks they forgot the golden rule of being the market leader....to be the leader you need others to be following you but lagging behind you!

 

[not done it yet]

There is not enough lithium on the planet to fuel 75% of the road transport we have now - let alone fueling a growing world transport market.

I just looked on the internet for world-wide Lithium resources. 98 million tonnes (of which the UK has a couple of million tonnes. That is a lot of Lithium when each typical car battery (whatever that is!) contains just 10kg. That represents an awful lot of batteries. Nowhere near all of that 98 million tonnes is proven or extractable at this presen time - but it is almost certainly there. 26 million tonnes are both proven and viable at the present time.

That is without resorting to possible future extraction from sea water.

 

[premmington]

I just looked on the internet for world-wide Lithium resources. 98 million tonnes (of which the UK has a couple of million tonnes. That is a lot of Lithium when each typical car battery (whatever that is!) contains just 10kg. That represents an awful lot of batteries. Nowhere near all of that 98 million tonnes is proven or extractable at this presen time - but it is almost certainly there. 26 million tonnes are both proven and viable at the present time.

That is without resorting to possible future extraction from sea water.

but only one-quarter is economically viable to mine as reserves

do you wanna turn lithium into the new gold?

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My joke for today...

"You try to save the planet, but it costs the Earth"

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My "you meet a nicer person on Honda" did not get too many likes and I thought that was funny. You just can't choose your audience can you.

 

[rhubarb7]

Can you imagine the state of the vegan leather after 1,000 rounds of hot brass has dropped on it and a couple of barrel swaps?

I can think of someone to put inside it

 

[Ubique]

Put Toyota electric vehicles into your search engine to see their current all battery EV range .

Ohhh... don't mention BEV + range in the same sentence....


Unless of course you mean the selection of vehicles available

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Well if I was investing in lithium I think I'd be talking up its rarity...and hence it's price .

Weren't we meant to run out of oil decades ago too?

 

[daleyd]

World Car Group Ranking in 2023 is dominated by Toyota (+3.3%) which maintains a substantial distance from the runner up Volkswagen.

2022 VAG group had the highest sales - but in 2023 Toyota surpassed them to be the worlds largest.

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You would have been right if it was the year 2022 - but it is not...

Also you need to check your facts about Toyota on pure BEVS - they drawing off the idea mate.

Well, you can count 2023 when it’s over but by revenue VW are number 1, though that comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

It’s not really true to to say they are drawing off the idea though, they have recently announced a massive investment in Bev ($35 billion or something) and are expecting by 2030 to be selling 3.5 million Bev per year, up from a few tens of thousands they sold only last year. I wouldn’t call that “drawing off” by any stretch.

 

[GRW]

My comment from this morning:

End result a bitter and twisted old fart getting personal with me and kept calling me a liar....Yet I was even responding to him with this comment!!

Hey - at least you're not considered to be stoopid

 

[GRW]

Well, you can count 2023 when it’s over but by revenue VW are number 1, though that comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

It’s not really true to to say they are drawing off the idea though, they have recently announced a massive investment in Bev ($35 billion or something) and are expecting by 2030 to be selling 3.5 million Bev per year, up from a few tens of thousands they sold only last year. I wouldn’t call that “drawing off” by any stretch.

Given the volatility & how many variables there are in the vehicle future, with so many unresolved issues - I think that any forecasts & predictions are "taking a punt" more than in the past tbh.
The energy & materials issues are very real & very big, and very difficult to solve (& as yet they've not got a direction as to how - & once they do - its decades to construct).
The BEV market might just as easily stall-out due to the consequences of these issues as meet the forecast targets... & if the existing EV's fail to live up to the hype......
It's a lottery IMO.

I'm with @premmington & his forecast - that there's going to be movement & change, and it's by no means a done-deal that we'll all be driving EV's by 2030 (or 2040, or 2050)

 

[GRW]

but only one-quarter is economically viable to mine as reserves

do you wanna turn lithium into the new gold?

That was a key point of that Toyota thing I watched... that the relative scarcity v demand for Lithium, Manganese etc for EV packs (as well as all the other growing battery applications) has to result in the commodity price of these elements rising fast - which makes for making already very expensive EV's into "bloody how much!" EV's.
If the market cannot stand the price - then that alone will hamstring EV sales IMO

 

[Farside]

Weren't we meant to run out of oil decades ago too?

We would have done too, if it weren't for those pesky kids kept finding more of it.
Even so, it's just an extension of the day when it becomes really short of supply and if we're not ready for that, we're all screwed.

 

[premmington]

That was a key point of that Toyota thing I watched... that the relative scarcity v demand for Lithium, Manganese etc for EV packs (as well as all the other growing battery applications) has to result in the commodity price of these elements rising fast - which makes for making already very expensive EV's into "bloody how much!" EV's.
If the market cannot stand the price - then that alone will hamstring EV sales IMO

Lithium could be the new gold or it could be the new Dutch Tulip bulb of the 1600's.

 

[premmington]

That was a key point of that Toyota thing I watched... that the relative scarcity v demand for Lithium, Manganese etc for EV packs (as well as all the other growing battery applications) has to result in the commodity price of these elements rising fast - which makes for making already very expensive EV's into "bloody how much!" EV's.
If the market cannot stand the price - then that alone will hamstring EV sales IMO

Another point you need to get is.

You can recycle lithium - but recycled stuff has be meet two defined perameters.

It has to be cheaper than the virgin stuff and it has to take less energy to be recycled.

Difficult hurdles to cross...

 

[brightspark]

Lithium could be the new gold or it could be the new Dutch Tulip bulb of the 1600's.

and in short supply and not enough to go round

 

[addjunkie]

We would have done too, if it weren't for those pesky kids kept finding more of it.
Even so, it's just an extension of the day when it becomes really short of supply and if we're not ready for that, we're all screwed.

Yes but then there is methane hydrates……..

The future is continuous change to suit the most powerful market leader of the time!