Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

I used to be involved with supplying, installing & commissioning off-grid electricity systems (genset, inverter-charger & battery pack at the core, but there's the option to add supplementary charge devices (Solar etc).
For the systems to be viable economically as well as providing uninterrupted 24/7 power (without the need to run the genny 24/7) then using the battery to its best advantage (& avoiding its weaknesses) was an essential part of the set-up & process (along with a charging setup to have good longevity).
We found also that other installers & most users - completely failed to grasp the importance of Charging, Charge Rate, Absorption Times, & Discharging & Cycling of the battery pack, focusing instead on the Inverter Power output Rating & pack size.

The bottom line - is that batteries are Far, FAR better at running low-draw loads (relative to pack size) than they are at running high-draw loads at all (even for very short durations).
They also last much better if charged properly (on traction lead-acid this meant typically not more than 15% of Pack AH per hour to attain peak charge voltage, followed by an Absorption period (where charge current is reduced to maintain peak charge voltage) of typically 4-hours (making a typical full cycle take around 8-hours).
Using a setup where we prevented any extended loads (by having the inverter start the genny & synch, ramp the load to genset, then charge instead of discharge) - we could get a pack to last 2-3 days before needing to run a full cycle (& well-maintained packs lasting 10-12 years).

This - is why IMO EV's and the current practices to fast-charge and have high performance - are "playing to the crowd" & looking to make them more appealing..... instead of accepting what batteries work best doing - and working within their best performance envelope.

I'd think that those who home charge (with a charger that charges overnight and at a battery-friendly rate-of-charge), & who then drive them gently & at as light a load as possible - will extract the best from an EV (also why I believe a car like an early no-frills Leaf - is a far better vehicle than a high-powered "M3 for the image-afflicted".

EV's (batteries) are not suited for high performance, high-load applications IMO. The industry ignoring that to Tey to appeal to the Ego of the petrol-head is I think, actually harming the image of the EV, by trying to "prove" its a complete equal & replacement for the ICE, when it is not.

 

[not done it yet]

My post was written not as anti-EV but as city centres being motorist & tradesman unfriendly. The fact that you take it as anti-EV and feel the need to react the way you do makes you the first person on this forum that I've felt the need to block. Life is too short and this is the only reaction you will be getting from me.

Nomad,

My post was not criticising you at all. Sorry, if that was your impression. I was referring to the whole sentence, highlighted by you in your post. That part-sentence, highlighted by you, when read as a whole sentence, was typical trash invented by someone with a clear intention of criticising any and all EV use.

I only replied to your post to avoid more carp from those on the forum that are blatantly (as that posting clearly showed) trying to give any reason to decry the use/adoption of EVs.

Here is the full sentence to which I referred: quote “The problem for trades in cities regarding an EV van- is not the emissions- its that there's nowhere they can park on the job.” Unquote.

That was a typical claim by an anti-EV poster on the forum, IMO. Blame the EV, for something that was an obvious problem for traders - long before EVs were invented.

 

[GRW]

Nomad,

My post was not criticising you at all. Sorry, if that was your impression. I was referring to the whole sentence, highlighted by you in your post. That part-sentence, highlighted by you, when read as a whole sentence, was typical trash invented by someone with a clear intention of criticising any and all EV use.

I only replied to your post to avoid more carp from those on the forum that are blatantly (as that posting clearly showed) trying to give any reason to decry the use/adoption of EVs.

Here is the full sentence to which I referred: quote “The problem for trades in cities regarding an EV van- is not the emissions- its that there's nowhere they can park on the job.” Unquote.

That was a typical claim by an anti-EV poster on the forum, IMO. Blame the EV, for something that was an obvious problem for traders - long before EVs were invented.

You need to get over yourself, & stop actively seeking things to get stroppy about.
Read that again - you'll see (or should if you take the blinkers off & calm the F down) that I was saying that for trades, vans (that's ANY van ffs) is of very limited use, due to Parking.

I reckon you could pick a fight with your own shadow.

 

[rhubarb7]

You need to get over yourself, & stop actively seeking things to get stroppy about.
Read that again - you'll see (or should if you take the blinkers off & calm the F down) that I was saying that for trades, vans (that's ANY van ffs) is of very limited use, due to Parking.

I reckon you could pick a fight with your own shadow.

Don't waste your energy on him.

The idiots got nothing better to do with his time.

It's quite sad really.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I reckon you could pick a fight with your own shadow....

...in any empty house (as we used to say up here).

 

[GRW]

Don't waste your energy on him.

The idiots got nothing better to do with his time.

It's quite sad really.

Tbh - I don't get it. He gets super-defensive & clearly very sensitive - about his choice to go EV, & appears to tale it as a personal affront if people dare to think otherwise.
IMO weighing the pro's & cons of the EV versus ICE options.... well the cost of ownership is way too high (which is the main one) and the limitations and inconveniences way too many for me yo consider one.
He's decided that for him one makes sense.... & I don't mind one bit about that (if anything I should be the one miffed - after all, I'm a taxpayer, so I'm part-subsidising his transport!).
I wonder why he gets so angry when others disagree. Why should he care what I (or others) think, as long as he's happy with his choice

 

[rhubarb7]

Tbh - I don't get it. He gets super-defensive & clearly very sensitive - about his choice to go EV, & appears to tale it as a personal affront if people dare to think otherwise.
IMO weighing the pro's & cons of the EV versus ICE options.... well the cost of ownership is way too high (which is the main one) and the limitations and inconveniences way too many for me yo consider one.
He's decided that for him one makes sense.... & I don't mind one bit about that (if anything I should be the one miffed - after all, I'm a taxpayer, so I'm part-subsidising his transport!).
I wonder why he gets so angry when others disagree. Why should he care what I (or others) think, as long as he's happy with his choice

I understand it. He's Narcissistic just like my Father.

They've always got to be right (even when they're not) They don't like losing face or being put down, or there material goods being put down.

But they get a kick out of putting others down.

Best thing to do is just ignore him. He won't like it and it takes the power away from him.

He's the second one on here that I've blocked.

 

[premmington]

I understand it. He's Narcissistic just like my Father.

They've always got to be right (even when they're not) They don't like losing face or being put down, or there material goods being put down.

But they get a kick out of putting others down.

Best thing to do is just ignore him. He won't like it and it takes the power away from him.

He's the second one on here that I've blocked.

I am so gratefull my Father is so nice...

He very old now and losing function - I took him for an ice cream this afternoon - he dropped his (my dog ate it) - went in shop to get him another one.

Lady from shop got a chair out the front of the shop - sat him down - unwrapped the second Cornetto - gave him a tissue.

Nice lady was chatting to him - Dad could not recall how old he was in years - but can remember the year he was born.

Then Dad said "I can't remember a lot now - but I do remember I like an icecream" - me and nice lady smiled at each other...

 

[addjunkie]

Is this really a thing…….

 

[GRW]

Is this really a thing…….
View attachment 414375

Well....the nice AA man can't get you a can of Electrons if you run out!

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Been researching charging points....the ones at the end of my street aren't active yet (they've not painted in the bays)...but a quick look at their app and the nearest working ones are only 50m away and all available.

Cost wise they're more expensive than home charging £0.56 per kWh ....but at least I have an option if the car comes before I can get my own charger sorted out. Its easy to install the 32A socket....it's less easy to work out what to do with the half finished Figaro project sitting on my drive

Seems like the borough I'm in will be installing 2000 charge points in the next couple years....should be awash with them soon....well until ev ownership catches up.

Reckon most people will home charge as thats a lot cheaper.

 

[roofman]

Won't be long now before someone has figured how to "bleed" your full charge from your car into there's via a homemade fly lead

 

[cheb]

Is this a thing? Probably, because there'll be all manner of strange ad hoc workarounds while the technology sorts itself out. To expect any less is to be naïve. To bang on about it repeatedly, as has been done in this thread, suggests having somewhat closed mind.

Yes EVs run out of charge, but then so do ICE powered vehicles. I've a close relative whose car always seems to be at the bottom end of the reserve whenever i have to drive it. It's not financial, it's lack of forethought. As I've said before, will we have the same scorn when an ICE powered car is bought spare fuel by an EV. It's so easy to to take potshots at a single picture or circumstance with no added context.

100 pages in and the thread's not moved an inch, that's a terrible distance per energy unit consumption. My vision when I see this thread at the top of the page again is a car of small children incessantly whining 'Are we there yet, are we there yet?'

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

100 pages in and the thread's not moved an inch, that's a terrible distance per energy unit consumption.

To be fair if you look back I was kind of skeptical about EVs...100 pages later and I've just ordered one so I think it's been a useful debate for me at least.

Main issue I had/have with EVs is their cost makes them inaccessible to ordinary people because they can't take advantage of the BIK or salary sacrifice incentives.

...but I think the MG4 kind of changed the maths for me....£32k for an EV with 270 miles of range thats also a descent drive too (its RWD with 0-60 under 8 seconds)!

The MG4 base model I think is around £27k with a little less range...thats more like the sorts of prices that they need to be!

 

[GRW]

Been researching charging points....the ones at the end of my street aren't active yet (they've not painted in the bays)...but a quick look at their app and the nearest working ones are only 50m away and all available.

Cost wise they're more expensive than home charging £0.56 per kWh ....but at least I have an option if the car comes before I can get my own charger sorted out. Its easy to install the 32A socket....it's less easy to work out what to do with the half finished Figaro project sitting on my drive

Seems like the borough I'm in will be installing 2000 charge points in the next couple years....should be awash with them soon....well until ev ownership catches up.

Reckon most people will home charge as thats a lot cheaper.

Is it likely that some city dwellers won't have the option logistically to home charge though - so will have to charge on public charge points?
I'm thinking people living several floors up in a flat, or on a street with no parking & no driveway etc.
If (IF) that's the case, then those EV-ers will lose a key advantage of cheaper charging if they have to public charge at £0.56/Kwh??

What's the typical miles per kw (& how many kw is equivalent to a litre of petrol)?

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I'm thinking people living several floors up in a flat, or on a street with no parking & no driveway etc

Our council have a grant system for renters and people in flats to install their own chargers....annoyingly doesn't apply to house owners .

We were just doing the maths...our Tucson does about 200 miles on £45 of petrol (its terrible in city driving!). Even at £0.56kwh the MG4 will do 270 miles on £35!

I think the range will drop in winter....but will increase in city (due to regen apparently) so will have to see how it goes. I've read the city range could be over 325 miles....but I find that difficult to believe.

Luckily I have a drive....so just need to throw in a 32A wall socket and I'm good I think.

 

[Bullet2012]

Won't be long now before someone has figured how to "bleed" your full charge from your car into there's via a homemade fly lead

Good plan, let’s make up a few leads. We can make more money than @Wozzaaah does with the forum funds

 

[GRW]

Just googled.
A typical EV does 3 - 3.5 miles on a kwh.
1 litre of petrol is somewhere between the equivalent of 8.9 to 9.7 kwh.
(If Google stuff is close to correct).

No idea what that means without some thinking & maths.

OK...
If 1 litre is somewhere around 9 kwh,

If you get 3.5 miles per kwh, then to do 100 miles you need about 11 kwh?
11kwh @ £0.56 per unit is £ 6.16, which is still only just over 6-pence a mile fuel cost. Is that about right?

A newish petrol/diesel car doing 50mpg, & with fuel at £1.55/litre would need about 9.1 Litres & £14.11, so just over 14-pence a mile fuel cost.

Over say 10,000 miles a year - it's £616 fuelling for the EV, versus £1410 for the ICE - a difference of £ 794 cheaper for the leccy car.

If home charging at say 32p per kwh, Then 11kwh is £3.52 for 100 miles, & £352 for 10,000 miles - so £1058 cheaper.

Am I therein thereabouts?

 

[GRW]

Our council have a grant system for renters and people in flats to install their own chargers....annoyingly doesn't apply to house owners .

I'm confused. What use is an installed car charger somewhere like the 10th-floor of a block of flats?

 

[premmington]

Just googled.
A typical EV does 3 - 3.5 miles on a kwh.
1 litre of petrol is somewhere between the equivalent of 8.9 to 9.7 kwh.
(If Google stuff is close to correct).

No idea what that means without some thinking & maths.

OK...
If 1 litre is somewhere around 9 kwh,

If you get 3.5 miles per kwh, then to do 100 miles you need about 11 kwh?
11kwh @ £0.56 per unit is £ 6.16, which is still only just over 6-pence a mile fuel cost. Is that about right?

A newish petrol/diesel car doing 50mpg, & with fuel at £1.55/litre would need about 9.1 Litres & £14.11, so just over 14-pence a mile fuel cost.

Over say 10,000 miles a year - it's £616 fuelling for the EV, versus £1410 for the ICE - a difference of £ 794 cheaper for the leccy car.

If home charging at say 32p per kwh, Then 11kwh is £3.52 for 100 miles, & £352 for 10,000 miles - so £1058 cheaper.

Am I therein thereabouts?

Yeah you fag packet maths is fairly tight mate.

Then you gonna work out how much the premium of an EV car is to purchase - whack the fuel savings in and declare on average mileage - the petrol looks a better bet.