Atlas 10F lathe value

[DAPPH]

Just over a year ago I purchased a 1942-3 10 F made to British war dept spec for munitions work , with Timkin bearings .
It is branded as an Sphere lathe but is 99 % American ATLAS for my money quite a bit of tooling & only one back plate .but no milling attachment.

I paid £300 for it . Unfortunately for me the guy sold the mill attachment to some one else for £150 two days earlier .
but no milling attachment
Seeing how clean & cared for yours looks I'd snap their hands off in the as is condition I'd say £ 300 for everything is a fair price as you can't get it to bits & things don't line up .

It took me four months of playing , cleaning with scotch brite green scrubber & WD 40 to get things clean and moving & learning how to set the lathe up correctly .
My tight chuck was solved by soaking the area of the chuck & spindle in WD 40 for three days night & morning , then putting it in drive ( motor unplugged ) inserting a 2 foot length of thicik broom stick across open jaws sot was on one and stopped by the other bringing it just above horizontal then giving it one sharp wallop with a three pound rubber hammer on the end of the broom shaft . Others have said put the biggest Allen key you have .. if it's less thant 1/2 inch AFf it's not a lot of use even if you slip a power bar/pipe over the end and wallop it . Untill you have loosened it don't go puttingn the chuck key in the hole and walloping nit for you may well shatter brak out the edge of that jaws drive screw

There is a American site that has a section explicitly for Atlas lathes , you could do worse than joining them & reading about how to service and set up your lathe . It's been invaluable to me ....I now have a decent little lathe to which I've added a QCTP ( quick change tool post ) @ £150 ish .

I noticed you have a quality collet set there .. they are worth quite a lot usually £ 150 plus
The site is hobby-machine dot com Most of the guys are extremely helpful and one in particular who is WA5CAB is a vast encyclopedia of knowledge and information for them .

Do you have a MOLO ( manual of lathe operations ) hand book by Atlas for the lathe ( Ring bound Black cover and about 7 x 6 x 1/2 " thick ) ?

 

[gaz1]

Useful info re setting bed, thanks.
1st piece of good news is... I've just been given the Lathe! Wasn't expecting that so I'm going to send them a cheque anyway.
2nd is... I got the chuck off! Thanks Gaz1, I used the spin it back against a block of wood method. Boy did it take a lot of whacks to finally crack it, like 100+.

flowboy they wont except it, you would be much better off offering them any help that you can offer them

as you might be needed with other things that you can do instead so the offer is always appreciated

 

[gaz1]

you mean this by any chance you can only view it though

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34415359/...s-and-Machinists-Tables-Atlas-Press-Co#scribd

 

[DAPPH]

Useful info re setting bed, thanks.
1st piece of good news is... I've just been given the Lathe! Wasn't expecting that so I'm going to send them a cheque anyway.
2nd is... I got the chuck off! Thanks Gaz1, I used the spin it back against a block of wood method. Boy did it take a lot of whacks to finally crack it, like 100+.

Was a fair bit of crap in there. Threads in chuck are pretty poor but headstock looks good. Cleaned 'em up but screwing back on the whole thing felt loose on headstock thread until it was tight against the stop. I put a bar in & couldnt feel any play in the headstock.
View attachment 75534 View attachment 75535
Took tailstock off - how is the base attached to the top? Some kind of hidden screws or dowels? Funnily enough there was a base sold on ebay this a.m. for £4.99. Would have been handy.
Stripped down compound rest & the bronze screw nut is very sloppy & needs replacing methinks. Screw is worn also; thread width is thinner in central area than at ends by about 10 thou'. A bit tricky to measure.
View attachment 75536
Oh, & the compound rest has crack damage
View attachment 75537

That play :-
In the cross slide screw & funny brass nut ..most Atlas lathes have it at around 1/8 to 3/16 of back & forth play onn th cross slide . It's something you allow for by taking the cross slide well back from the work piece then advance it slowly to take up the slack before it reached the work piece other wise it often grabs the cutting tool into the work piece . However if too worn spare parts are usually are still availabe from Clausing USA of from some one in the USA breaking one down .

Play on the compound is usually accounted for by setting the Gibb screws a tad tight so stop the slack movement but not so tight as to make you force the wheel / crank round .

For the present you may get away by simply filing the flake away if it is interfering with things and ensuring that the beveled pins that clamp the compound slide in place are not scored or burred up . Ensure that they move freely in their channels and that the square headed locking screws that push onn them are not mushroomed or bent .
I had to use fine wet & dry on pins & the shoulder /ring of the mount as there were several nasty burrs on the . When I put them back they got a decent dollop of silicone grease in the hole as well as being liberally coated with it & the mount also got lathered in silicone grease as well .
Both of the square headed locking screws are lightly nipped up when the compound angle is set .. don't just tighten one as the compound can often wobble on the mount .

Both my chuck threads were much like yours. To sort it put the lathe in engage but with the motor disconnected to get a bit of resistance on the spindle shaft , then dribbled a few drops of well shaken liquid brasso on the spindle thread end and back for about four more threads , then worked the chuck back & forth till it stuck . Then backed it off a bit and then forced it on a tiny bit more ..kept repeating this till the chuck sat snugly on the register face about three minutes later . Took it off and washed everything off several times with meths out of a trigger sprayer .
Lubed it with a drop of lathe oil and some meths to just get then thinnest of coatings ..Both chucks ares now as smooth as silk to put on or take off .

 

[gaz1]

ok heres a few more

parts list

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3454

might come in handy but threading chart is on it

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/3440.pdf

 

[DAPPH]

you mean this by any chance you can only view it though

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34415359/...s-and-Machinists-Tables-Atlas-Press-Co#scribd

Yep that a MOLO . they are reasonable easy to get on USA eBay etc they sometimes appear on Amazon as well .. I think that the serial number of the lathe is on the right hand front edge of the lathe bed .. WA5CAB aka Robert can help you identify your lathe and indicate which MOLO it is best to try and obtain ... section seven threading iof th MOLO is very useful not all MOLO's have it apparently..

 

[Flathead_Dave]

you mean this by any chance you can only view it though

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34415359/...s-and-Machinists-Tables-Atlas-Press-Co#scribd

In the mean time you can save any pages of interest by right click > save image

 

[Flowboy]

Thanks folks, partic. Manual links, plenty to learn here. Dapph, the slide screw & nut slop can't have been there originally!? 50+ yrs of wear. The nut waggles around like billyo. There's a ebayer offering to replace the nut to yr screw. In brass.. Would have thought original is bronze but mine's so bad am considering it. My chuck is only solid / tight when right agin stop /register. So a lot of slack on thread that needs building up.. Probably replacement backplate is ideal but how possible is it re availability or use lathe to make new plate?

 

[Henrik]

why not make a new leadscrew and adjustable nut yourself? Considering the amount of use your average lathe actually gets, you could even cast a plastic nut from old milk bottles and it'll likely still outlast you

This is definitely the way to go. Delrin nuts are well proven on hobby lathes, and are cheap and simpleish to make

See here: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew-nuts-the-easy-way

 

[Gritineye]

I made a Delrin one some time ago with the melting method, it works well with no backlash, made it in two halves squeezed onto the hot lead screw in a vice and then screwed the halves together.

 

[Flowboy]

So this ebayer makes a new nut to fit your screw? Does he machine the screw so that the thread is consistent all along the length too?

If not, and the new nut is machined to fit the worn section, it'll bind at the ends of travel - or if it's machined to fit the ends then it'll have (slightly less but still there) slop in the worn section...

But, and maybe I'm being too simple in my thoughts here, you have a lathe - why not make a new leadscrew and adjustable nut yourself? Considering the amount of use your average lathe actually gets, you could even cast a plastic nut from old milk bottles and it'll likely still outlast you

Well he'd have to compromise somewhere. Just wondered if a restricted but non sloppy range of movement might be preferable to a fully sloppy range! Had crossed my mind to make a new screw but I'm dubious about the accuracy of any thread cutting capability of the lathe given the wear on the threads. I've never trusted to use the lead screw due to the slop. Oh and I've never cut a thread on any lathe before! I'll probably give it a go, just get stuck in - it's how I learned to weld & braze so badly - with knackered equipment . Delrin sounds interesting option to keep a worn screw going but with same problems as above? edit... Nice link Henrik - it suggests slop is not a problem with these nuts but we don't know how worn out the guy's threads were...

 

[penfold]

Lengths of acme threaded rod aren't that pricey; better off buying a length and doing it properly. Most lathes can't reproduce their own lead screws anyway; it would be too short.

 

[Flowboy]

I'm a joiner, unqualified for anything but drinking beer. Nobody seems to want wooden threads these days don't know what the world's coming to
I like the idea of a new screw. So it is an actual 1/2" Acme thread? & the adjusting screw thread on the end is maybe 3/8" 26tpi or an odd size like 11/32" I guess this could be made seperately & fitted into the acme appropriately. Not actually measured these yet.

 

[penfold]

According to Lathes.co.uk it should be 3/4" 8tpi; you're best getting a caliper on the adjusting thread, and possibly a thread gauge for definitiveness.

 

[Flowboy]

Yes if only I could find my ~*#%" thread gauge... messy workshops, sloppy habits..

 

[Henrik]

I have a lead screw knocking about somewhere, but I can't remember what condition it is in.

If I can find it I'll take some pics and if you want it you can have it for the delivery cost.

Hopefully get a chance to look for it this weekend

 

[DAPPH]

Thanks folks, partic. Manual links, plenty to learn here. Dapph, the slide screw & nut slop can't have been there originally!? 50+ yrs of wear. The nut waggles around like billyo. There's a ebayer offering to replace the nut to yr screw. In brass.. Would have thought original is bronze but mine's so bad am considering it. My chuck is only solid / tight when right agin stop /register. So a lot of slack on thread that needs building up.. Probably replacement backplate is ideal but how possible is it re availability or use lathe to make new plate?

My lathe is 78 or so year old , the nut is brass not phosphor bronze or steel . There is very little wear along the screw thread . The guys on the site I mentioned say it is quite normal to have that slop .
Adjust / tighten the gib screws so it is tight & once it won't slide slide , if you need to use the compound ease them off to a slightly easier slide & lock the carriage .

On the cross slide there may be two oil holes onn the axis of the acme screw that have small grub screws in them take them out and lube daily . I use WD 40 and the spray tube for mine .
On the my compound slide there are none that I know of for lubricating the nut or screw I simply wind the body as far back or forward as I can and at each limit use the WD 40 with the tube to spray up some light lube .

You can make your own new acme screw and nut if you so choose to even with the lathe in the condition it is currently in . The thread forms are given in section seven of the MOLO .part 13
If your needing them drop me a PM giving the diameter of the screw at the least worn end and give the pitch ... I'll check my tables to see what it corresponds to
I guess that if the truth be known if your not too bothered about having the graduation scale related to the rotations of the spindle you can choose your own thread form for them and get / buy in a precision rod and nut , having the nut welded onto a stand off and cutting it to size .

 

[Gritineye]

I agree with DAPPH about the slop/backlash it makes no difference at all to the accuracy of the lathe.

It's nice to have no slack, but all lathes have some after a while so as long as you pay attention to which direction you're moving the compound or cross slide (think backwards when boring) and take up the slack as the tool approaches the work, you should be fine.

It always makes me smile when I read 'how to assess a lathe' articles as they always put so much importance on backlash, trying to find one without any probably means lots of wasted journeys and high prices are paid by the uninformed newcomer to hobby machining.

 

[brightspark]

theres -slight back-lash on new machines-just a bit more on--older -ones no big deal

 

[Bill Edwards]

First thing I was taught was when backing it back a little wind it until it's moving away from the work piece, then wind it back in to the place you now want it. If you don't pull it back and have the screw pushing it in the right direction again you'll end up with a mess.