Backed down due to social media response.
https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-a...vaJuMSEtrEjmF5PoWA_aem_9pmWZQG7MlRYgq7gdiFJSA
https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-a...vaJuMSEtrEjmF5PoWA_aem_9pmWZQG7MlRYgq7gdiFJSA
- Thread starter AlexBrown_1
- Start date
I think the backlash would have had even more impact had those who could not see the bigger picture just been quiet instead of antagonising those who could.The backlash is interesting. The update will not affect most users. I use their software and that will continue to work as usual.
I certainly hope the printers become cheaper and there are a lot of cheap second hand ones around.
I will buy them. If you have an iPhone you are locked in and they are quite successful
It comes with convenience. If they actually stop you using other filament then that will bury them as theirs is too expensive.
I will drop them if that occurs.
My Old Landy
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The bigger picture will always be profit. Most companies apart from Apple have got burned when trying to ensure people are locked in.I think the backlash would have had even more impact had those who could not see the bigger picture just been quiet instead of antagonising those who could.
It should not be a surprise to anyone really. As a Bambu user, I am happy to use their servers etc so I won't be surprised if they harvest my data. Nothing is free.
Their attempt to gain more profit will just get brought in via more stealth means, but rest assured, they will try again.
PhillipM
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They haven't really, there's still most of it going through, that's mainly just lan mode options.
My Old Landy
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Indeed, they have just clarified what it means. They also addressed the misinformation from several 'influencers' that started the hysteria.
My Old Landy
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I think it's a good thing to plug holes in security. As they use 3mf files that can potentially contain nasties it makes sense to get on top of it.
My Old Landy
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It's all a little scary really. Everything being connected is both brilliant and worrying!
Newlands
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Just watched a Louis Rossman yt video on this. Bambu have refuted all the complaints saying they are unfounded, which is actually not true. They have also updated their Ts and Cs on the sly, and removed archived Ts and Cs so they can substantiate their rebuttals of criticism. It's a very dumb move on their part - there are plenty of other manufacturers who can take advantage of this. Any moves towards a closed system or subscription based cloud services is a disaster - Adobe have managed it but only because they are a massive company with a user based tied in to their ecosystem, but they have still watched Serif grab a huge slice of their market from right under their noses.
I for one will not be updating my firmware on the X1C or installing the Bambu Connect software. And while sending prints wirelessly is very convenient, I would go back to messing around with SD cards if necessary.
I for one will not be updating my firmware on the X1C or installing the Bambu Connect software. And while sending prints wirelessly is very convenient, I would go back to messing around with SD cards if necessary.
Update from BIGTREETECH
Good People,
We would like to offer an update on the Panda Touch and the upcoming firmware updates from Bambu Lab. In order to address some statements that have been made we do need to offer some background. This is offered without any intention to bring the reputation of Bambu Lab into disrepute and with the utmost respect. We admire their designs and appreciate how they have accelerated innovation in the 3D printing community. If anything, we hope that this post will help clarify that we would love to work more closely with them.
Blog: https://bigtree-tech.com/blogs/news/pandas-love-bamboo
The background:
- In 2023 at a 3D printing festival called MRRF in the USA, our technical director had an idea of how to make the interface on the P1P (the more popular P series variant at the time) more streamlined to use. The idea arose from watching users work on P1P machines at the show and not finding the interface as intuitive as the X1C.
- After some research, it was found that Bambu Lab use a protocol called MQTT to communicate between Bambu Studio and their printers. This protocol is secure on the LAN and only accessible by services which have been authorised using the access code of the printer. It offered the needed status and control information to implement a touch screen and it was already being used by Bambu studio, some early home assistant integrations and print farm software so it was proven to be reliable.
- In September 2023, we met some C level executives from Bambu Lab at a trade show called TCT Asia. We really enjoyed meeting and interacting with them. We mentioned our idea and exchanged contact details. Later, our CEO contacted a C level exec and requested to have the MQTT protocol specification be made more official as it was currently only documented by members of the community.
- Initially there was some pleasant exchange but after a while, the conversation died off and we were unable to get a response. We are not a large company and we did not want to be a bother. Our background is also largely in the open source space where there is rarely any objection to companies creating upgrades and modifications. We therefore assumed that our request was simply too much trouble to matter in the grand scheme of things and that Bambu Lab would be not mind so proceeded with the design using the community documented protocol.
- In January 2024 we announced the Panda Touch. Roughly a day after announcing it we were contacted by a Bambu Lab employee to inform us that there was a plan to limit the MQTT communication link at some point in the future.
- We again were able to engage in some good discussion and asked about whether we could get official access to the protocol as well as whether we could get more clarity on when the changes would come into effect. We were informed that at some point in the future there would be an official API but otherwise on both points we were unable to obtain clarity and eventually we ceased to get responses. Again, we did not take this as any ill intent and we don't want anyone reading this to do so either. We simply assumed that perhaps the individuals we were working with were dealing with a high workload. Just to be sure, we also offered a royalty fee per Panda Touch sale to Bambu Lab. We are a small company and our sales are not large compared to Bambu Lab so this fee would not have much of an impact on their bottom line at all but we wanted to offer it anyways to show that we were sincere about wanting to work with them.
- We were in a sticky situation. We had opened pre-orders for the Panda Touch and they were getting snapped up very fast. We needed to do something and quick but we didn't quite know what the right answer was. Should we cancel the project altogether and refund all of the pre-orders? What if some users still wanted their device and were willing to remain on a particular firmware version in order to retain full functionality? In the end, we decided to give that choice to the users. After waiting for just under a week without a response, we made a video offering the best information we had available at the time. We let users know that Bambu Lab had informed us of the possibility of the protocol changing but we didn't know when and we didn't know how. We offered users who had placed pre-orders the option of a refund or to continue with their order with the knowledge that they may need to remain on a particular firmware version. The majority of users chose to stick with their orders.
- Moving forward we decided to continue to give this choice to users. If they are interested in the product, they could purchase it but they would need to be aware of that they may need to remain on a particular firmware version to retain full functionality and so we made the very first text on the product listing a warning about the risks involved. You can see that text here: https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-panda-touch-5-display-for-bambu-lab-printers
- We continued to listen to the community, develop the Panda Touch and add functions to it throughout the year and we were overjoyed to find so many users gaining benefit from it.
- During the year, we made some attempts to reach out to Bambu Lab but we were unable to connect.
- When we heard of the coming firmware update, we again reached out to Bambu Lab using the devpartner@bambulab.com email address to request permission to officially integrate the new authentication method into the Panda Touch. We are yet to hear from them but we remain hopeful.
In summary, we used the same protocol that was being used by Bambu Studio, home assistant, print farms and other tools. We attempted to make it official but perhaps we miscommunicated because we were unable to get a response on this. We did our best to ensure that users were aware of the potential need to remain on a firmware version before purchasing the product.
The way forward:
- According to the latest blog post by Bambu Lab, they plan to include a "DEV" mode in future firmware releases. If our understanding of this mode is correct, it will still allow users to use their Panda Touch units when this mode is activated. Of course, we will need to install this firmware and test it to be 100% sure. We will release updates as soon as we have more information available.
We would like to thank Bambu Lab for taking into consideration the voices of the community on this matter. While not all users want to perform modifications and upgrades, a large part of the maker community consists of people who do enjoy doing so and being willing to cater to that user group is important.
One of our primary product categories is in fact motherboard updates for 3D printers and we have been receiving many requests recently to develop an alternative electronics core for some of the Bambu Lab machines that would run fully open source firmware. It is a project that we have begun some investigation into purely because it aligns with our existing business and there is apparent user demand. Why are we mentioning it in this announcement? Because we understand that it could very easily be misconstrued as an act of aggression but we want to use this opportunity to highlight that it is anything but that. If this project were to be approved internally, we would rather work with Bambu on it to ensure that any users who perform such a modification are aware of the implications on their warranty and there is no increased load on the Bambu Lab support staff.
To close, we would like to direct an open but personal message to those within Bambu Lab who we feel may have misunderstood our intentions in the past: We have met many of you as individuals on various occasions and we thoroughly enjoyed our interactions. We found you to be balanced, friendly, incredibly smart and reasonable. We genuinely feel that there are some misunderstandings between our companies that could be clarified through open communication and collaboration. It remains our firm hope that we can work together with Bambu. Again, we admire your designs and how you have accelerated innovation in the industry.
Sincerely,
The BIGTREETECH/BIQU team.
Good People,
We would like to offer an update on the Panda Touch and the upcoming firmware updates from Bambu Lab. In order to address some statements that have been made we do need to offer some background. This is offered without any intention to bring the reputation of Bambu Lab into disrepute and with the utmost respect. We admire their designs and appreciate how they have accelerated innovation in the 3D printing community. If anything, we hope that this post will help clarify that we would love to work more closely with them.
Blog: https://bigtree-tech.com/blogs/news/pandas-love-bamboo
The background:
- In 2023 at a 3D printing festival called MRRF in the USA, our technical director had an idea of how to make the interface on the P1P (the more popular P series variant at the time) more streamlined to use. The idea arose from watching users work on P1P machines at the show and not finding the interface as intuitive as the X1C.
- After some research, it was found that Bambu Lab use a protocol called MQTT to communicate between Bambu Studio and their printers. This protocol is secure on the LAN and only accessible by services which have been authorised using the access code of the printer. It offered the needed status and control information to implement a touch screen and it was already being used by Bambu studio, some early home assistant integrations and print farm software so it was proven to be reliable.
- In September 2023, we met some C level executives from Bambu Lab at a trade show called TCT Asia. We really enjoyed meeting and interacting with them. We mentioned our idea and exchanged contact details. Later, our CEO contacted a C level exec and requested to have the MQTT protocol specification be made more official as it was currently only documented by members of the community.
- Initially there was some pleasant exchange but after a while, the conversation died off and we were unable to get a response. We are not a large company and we did not want to be a bother. Our background is also largely in the open source space where there is rarely any objection to companies creating upgrades and modifications. We therefore assumed that our request was simply too much trouble to matter in the grand scheme of things and that Bambu Lab would be not mind so proceeded with the design using the community documented protocol.
- In January 2024 we announced the Panda Touch. Roughly a day after announcing it we were contacted by a Bambu Lab employee to inform us that there was a plan to limit the MQTT communication link at some point in the future.
- We again were able to engage in some good discussion and asked about whether we could get official access to the protocol as well as whether we could get more clarity on when the changes would come into effect. We were informed that at some point in the future there would be an official API but otherwise on both points we were unable to obtain clarity and eventually we ceased to get responses. Again, we did not take this as any ill intent and we don't want anyone reading this to do so either. We simply assumed that perhaps the individuals we were working with were dealing with a high workload. Just to be sure, we also offered a royalty fee per Panda Touch sale to Bambu Lab. We are a small company and our sales are not large compared to Bambu Lab so this fee would not have much of an impact on their bottom line at all but we wanted to offer it anyways to show that we were sincere about wanting to work with them.
- We were in a sticky situation. We had opened pre-orders for the Panda Touch and they were getting snapped up very fast. We needed to do something and quick but we didn't quite know what the right answer was. Should we cancel the project altogether and refund all of the pre-orders? What if some users still wanted their device and were willing to remain on a particular firmware version in order to retain full functionality? In the end, we decided to give that choice to the users. After waiting for just under a week without a response, we made a video offering the best information we had available at the time. We let users know that Bambu Lab had informed us of the possibility of the protocol changing but we didn't know when and we didn't know how. We offered users who had placed pre-orders the option of a refund or to continue with their order with the knowledge that they may need to remain on a particular firmware version. The majority of users chose to stick with their orders.
- Moving forward we decided to continue to give this choice to users. If they are interested in the product, they could purchase it but they would need to be aware of that they may need to remain on a particular firmware version to retain full functionality and so we made the very first text on the product listing a warning about the risks involved. You can see that text here: https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-panda-touch-5-display-for-bambu-lab-printers
- We continued to listen to the community, develop the Panda Touch and add functions to it throughout the year and we were overjoyed to find so many users gaining benefit from it.
- During the year, we made some attempts to reach out to Bambu Lab but we were unable to connect.
- When we heard of the coming firmware update, we again reached out to Bambu Lab using the devpartner@bambulab.com email address to request permission to officially integrate the new authentication method into the Panda Touch. We are yet to hear from them but we remain hopeful.
In summary, we used the same protocol that was being used by Bambu Studio, home assistant, print farms and other tools. We attempted to make it official but perhaps we miscommunicated because we were unable to get a response on this. We did our best to ensure that users were aware of the potential need to remain on a firmware version before purchasing the product.
The way forward:
- According to the latest blog post by Bambu Lab, they plan to include a "DEV" mode in future firmware releases. If our understanding of this mode is correct, it will still allow users to use their Panda Touch units when this mode is activated. Of course, we will need to install this firmware and test it to be 100% sure. We will release updates as soon as we have more information available.
We would like to thank Bambu Lab for taking into consideration the voices of the community on this matter. While not all users want to perform modifications and upgrades, a large part of the maker community consists of people who do enjoy doing so and being willing to cater to that user group is important.
One of our primary product categories is in fact motherboard updates for 3D printers and we have been receiving many requests recently to develop an alternative electronics core for some of the Bambu Lab machines that would run fully open source firmware. It is a project that we have begun some investigation into purely because it aligns with our existing business and there is apparent user demand. Why are we mentioning it in this announcement? Because we understand that it could very easily be misconstrued as an act of aggression but we want to use this opportunity to highlight that it is anything but that. If this project were to be approved internally, we would rather work with Bambu on it to ensure that any users who perform such a modification are aware of the implications on their warranty and there is no increased load on the Bambu Lab support staff.
To close, we would like to direct an open but personal message to those within Bambu Lab who we feel may have misunderstood our intentions in the past: We have met many of you as individuals on various occasions and we thoroughly enjoyed our interactions. We found you to be balanced, friendly, incredibly smart and reasonable. We genuinely feel that there are some misunderstandings between our companies that could be clarified through open communication and collaboration. It remains our firm hope that we can work together with Bambu. Again, we admire your designs and how you have accelerated innovation in the industry.
Sincerely,
The BIGTREETECH/BIQU team.
Newlands
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A YouTuber channel called Print Practical has just put up a video showing how to enable LAN-only mode on the P1 and A1 printers. It's more or less the same process on the X1C. I changed mine this afternoon, but need to also restrict it to the LAN and block WAN connections for any real protection, as I understand that some people have had their firmware updated automatically. Mines on 1.07.04 at the moment and I don't intend to update it.
Trouble is, I'm on EE and I can't see a way of configuring the router to do this - when I log in to the router setup page it just directs me to use the EE phone app to do this sort of configuration, but the app is pretty useless - it just talks about blocking wi-fi rather than giving options to disable WAN connections. Unless someone here knows differently of course..
Trouble is, I'm on EE and I can't see a way of configuring the router to do this - when I log in to the router setup page it just directs me to use the EE phone app to do this sort of configuration, but the app is pretty useless - it just talks about blocking wi-fi rather than giving options to disable WAN connections. Unless someone here knows differently of course..
My Old Landy
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Now you have done that, is the camera disabled as they say on their blog?
I am going to run with whatever they do until they stop you using third party filament then I shall get rid and buy something else.
My Old Landy
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The P1S doesn't have a usb slot. It has an SD card but the machine has to be off to swap the card.The simplest solution is probably the easiest, just use a usb
Newlands
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No, the camera is still working. I haven't had a chance to do much since I wrote the above but I'll do a print tomorrow to check whats affected, if anything.
I'm actually surprised that Bambu have taken this long to tighten access to the printers, as the existing setup isn't exactly secure.
I'm personally not bothered about the update, as it's not removing any functionality that I use, and much of the furore around it, is pure speculation/scaremongering for clicks/views.
I'd very much doubt they'll ever restrict use of non-Bambu filaments, as Bambu know that they can't supply every type/colour of filament that people use, and if they did restrict access, the bambu rfid coding can fairly easily be mimicked. The Bambu rfid protocol has already been decoded, so it won't take much to code tags to suit.
Plus Bambu will be well aware that there are other options, and any restriction will benefit competitors far more than themselves.
I'm personally not bothered about the update, as it's not removing any functionality that I use, and much of the furore around it, is pure speculation/scaremongering for clicks/views.
I'd very much doubt they'll ever restrict use of non-Bambu filaments, as Bambu know that they can't supply every type/colour of filament that people use, and if they did restrict access, the bambu rfid coding can fairly easily be mimicked. The Bambu rfid protocol has already been decoded, so it won't take much to code tags to suit.
Plus Bambu will be well aware that there are other options, and any restriction will benefit competitors far more than themselves.
Not handy at the moment. It was on something I came across last year, but can't remember where.
Lmao seriously? That's bloody hilariously bad
iNf
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It is....but....on my previous 'ender' and presumably prusa machines the only option is to use a SD or USB (without the hassle of octoprint etc) so you have to be physically at the printer to start a print after transferring the file to the SD from your computer. With the bambu you can send it straight from the pc (or your phone if you have previously printed the file) l have my printer connected with a tapo plug, so I don't even have to go to the printer to turn it on. I haven't printed from the SD card since the very 1st print.
