Bi-Folding Gates to the yard of an unusual design.

[AlexWelderMonster]

Is the closing force measured and suitably limited? Even then, safety edges might be required.

Any motor has protection in case the sash hits an obstacle. It would be fine if the sashes were small, then the force could really be quite large. But in this particular gate the sashes are 3.5 m long - accordingly the force on their ends is proportionally less and is unlikely to be a problem.
I repeat, instead of relying on the motor stopping in case of a mechanical stop, I would install an optical sensor with a wide view in addition. In this case, the customer himself chose how and what to install. You understand what I mean, not just a photocell in the sash, but a volume sensor or whatever it is called. It costs about $ 1,000, but if you have children or animals in your yard, this is probably the right decision and investment

 

[Other Daniel]

Any motor has protection in case the sash hits an obstacle. It would be fine if the sashes were small, then the force could really be quite large. But in this particular gate the sashes are 3.5 m long - accordingly the force on their ends is proportionally less and is unlikely to be a problem.
I repeat, instead of relying on the motor stopping in case of a mechanical stop, I would install an optical sensor with a wide view in addition. In this case, the customer himself chose how and what to install. You understand what I mean, not just a photocell in the sash, but a volume sensor or whatever it is called. It costs about $ 1,000, but if you have children or animals in your yard, this is probably the right decision and investment

I feel the Yorkshire War Cry coming on....

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

I am amazed by the activity on your forum! It makes me happy)))) All our forums died before Covid 19, and the war finally finished them off.
I am glad that my topic received such a response!
For those who expressed doubts about how such gates can be used in Europe and the UK - a fresh example of a gate from my customer from Germany. Also an aluminum gate, but here a smaller BFG 30-50 mechanism is installed. The following photos are gates in Italy.

 

[Onoff]

@Parm , what do you reckon as to my worries?

 

[Onoff]

I do not know of a single case where swing gates crushed a child!

Construction company fined £80,000 after boy's head crushed by electric gates

A construction company has been fined £80,000 for safety offences after a young boy was crushed to death by electrically powered gates.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

HSM MAGAZINE - Firms fined for child’s death in electric sliding gate

A Swansea installation firm and a Cardiff maintenance company have been sentenced for serious safety failings after a five-year-old girl was crushed to death by an electric gate.

www.hsmsearch.com

Etc.

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

Construction company fined £80,000 after boy's head crushed by electric gates

A construction company has been fined £80,000 for safety offences after a young boy was crushed to death by electrically powered gates.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

HSM MAGAZINE - Firms fined for child’s death in electric sliding gate

A Swansea installation firm and a Cardiff maintenance company have been sentenced for serious safety failings after a five-year-old girl was crushed to death by an electric gate.

www.hsmsearch.com

Etc.

These are absolutely crazy cases, especially in apartment buildings! I would also punish the grandmother severely - with her connivance the tragedy occurred. The child, naturally, could not foresee the risks, but an adult is obliged!
Apparently, powerful motors were used - they write about the force of 2000 Newton - this is a lot! Household motors for private use do not produce such power.
In any case, I absolutely agree with you that safety issues must be seriously ensured, especially if there are children and animals in the yard!

 

[Onoff]

@AlexWelderMonster You asked for comment and I quoted what is guidance in the UK.

You then said you knew of no examples of children being crushed to death. I provided them. Some of these are why the laws changed here. (I believe this is statutory?)

I do not understand why you are angry.

I've already said I thought the designs were clever but am simply worried about the scissor action of the mechanisms.

 

[Mark 2]

. When I was a child, no one rode a bicycle in special clothes and with a helmet on their head and everyone was happy))). But when the state interferes in all spheres of life - whether it is necessary or not - you cannot expect anything exceptional, unusual or new. Everything will be gray and the same for everyone. Do you like such a world?

Interesting point, but nurturing seems to be behind Facebook likes in terms of priority at the moment.
Small child drowns through inattentive parenting and the solution is to fence off the water.
I generally agree with your sentiment but great things come out of restrictions also.

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

I do not understand why you are angry.

I have such a reaction to the infantilism that gives rise to such court decisions. Yes, of course, the gate installer was obliged to provide for the installation of "foolproof protection". But where are the brainless parents looking at the moment of the incident? You get used to the fact that all problems should be solved by the state for you and as a result you become helpless, like children. Remember - an official will never replace your common sense! And children need to be taken care of, including telling them where the source of potential danger may be. And this could be an open hatch, a passing car, a neighbor's dog, etc.

 

[Parm]

@Parm , what do you reckon as to my worries?

I don’t know anything about gates, my interest lies in chemical exposure risk management

 

[selectedgrub]

I have such a reaction to the infantilism that gives rise to such court decisions. Yes, of course, the gate installer was obliged to provide for the installation of "foolproof protection". But where are the brainless parents looking at the moment of the incident? You get used to the fact that all problems should be solved by the state for you and as a result you become helpless, like children. Remember - an official will never replace your common sense! And children need to be taken care of, including telling them where the source of potential danger may be. And this could be an open hatch, a passing car, a neighbor's dog, etc.

Word.
And some need a good hiding too.

 

[Barking Mat]

Nice work.

 

[Gareth J]

Safety concerns aside, is the point purely aesthetic? It seems to take up the same space as a simply hung gate in both open and closed positions. The swept area is reduced but is tgat really the only physical benefit to this design? To me, it seems like a lot of comprise in terms of simplicity, rigidity and security for an aesthetic that I don't personally appreciate. But hey, if you've got customers that like it and or need the swept area to fit there, why not I guess.

Oh, finally, is it all aluminium? It looks and sounds like it. If so, I would be a bit concerned with fatigue around joints with the amount of wobble it has in use.

Sorry if the feedback all sounds a bit negative, it's really not my cup of tea as a design!

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

Sorry if the feedback all sounds a bit negative, it's really not my cup of tea as a design!

Thanks for the feedback)
I take criticism absolutely normally, otherwise I would not have posted my work
In the video, I also summarized that the customer took a profile for the gate that does not quite provide the necessary rigidity of the structure. To compensate for this, he had to install a roller.
But overall, I liked the concept. The gate is installed under the wall anyway, and regular swing gates would take up the same amount of space. But due to the folding of the second leaf, the gate still takes up less space in the yard - watch the trajectory of movement. So this decision is completely justified.
In general, I am a supporter of slightly increasing the cross-section of the pipes used relative to the calculated ones. It makes it easier to sleep
Here, for example, is a large selection of my customers' works.
I am glad that my topic received so many responses - I did not even expect it!
Turn on English subtitles with translation from Ukrainian.

 

[gaz1]

I heard that in the UK everything is very regulated. On the one hand, this is right, but on the other hand, it limits initiative and imagination. I don't think that these gates are dangerous. The movement of the flaps is slow, neither the dog nor the cat will be harmed - they will have time to run away. And children will not be in the zone of action of the flaps purely by design. In addition, you can install a spatial sensor to avoid a possible incident. This is not a problem.

im not going to get into the argument of the brainless children as theres plenty of brainless adults that are just as bad but for the uk regs must be followed for sold items here even if they are in kit form self build

safety and protection of said mechs

though its something for you to consider with selling your gates

reference 2

that gate might be allowed as it opens onto a public highway on the end of a culdesac but uk you will have to deal with safety more as it opens onto a public area

fine if it opens on your own property

as goes for your gates i like them and have posted other youtube vids of other builds of gates from there

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

that gate might be allowed as it opens onto a public highway on the end of a culdesac but uk you will have to deal with safety more as it opens onto a public area

fine if it opens on your own property

as goes for your gates i like them and have posted other youtube vids of other builds of gates from there

Yes, I know about these rules regarding outward opening. The same rules are in Israel. We also have a restriction if the gate will block a large part of the road, but this does not apply to the sidewalk.
Customers build gates based on these decisions. I am physically located in Ukraine and do not make gates outside of it) Yes, I supply mechanisms and can make a gate project.
All responsibility for compliance with local legislation lies with the customer. In this case, the gate opens onto private territory and in no way interferes with traffic from outside the gate on public territory))))
But there are situations when the developer makes such microscopic courtyards, and the owners of the house so want to fence the territory with gates that they are forced to resort to opening the gates outward. Otherwise, they will not be able to park a car in the yard. These are the so-called townhouses - this is what we call connected blocks of houses with very small courtyards in front of the entrance.

 

[JOEPRO]

Yes, I know about these rules regarding outward opening. The same rules are in Israel. We also have a restriction if the gate will block a large part of the road, but this does not apply to the sidewalk.
Customers build gates based on these decisions. I am physically located in Ukraine and do not make gates outside of it) Yes, I supply mechanisms and can make a gate project.
All responsibility for compliance with local legislation lies with the customer. In this case, the gate opens onto private territory and in no way interferes with traffic from outside the gate on public territory))))
But there are situations when the developer makes such microscopic courtyards, and the owners of the house so want to fence the territory with gates that they are forced to resort to opening the gates outward. Otherwise, they will not be able to park a car in the yard. These are the so-called townhouses - this is what we call connected blocks of houses with very small courtyards in front of the entrance.

That's a very sketchy business model my friend. Surely your products must be appropriately safety tested in the country they are supplied to and that is YOUR responsibility as the business / supplier.

To say that lies with others is nonsense. For example if someone loses their fingers in your gear mechanism then are you saying that's not your fault and your client should have ensured this was fit for purpose and adequately covered to prevent injury?

Not only must your products be appropriately tested and certified, the gate fabricator should be competent to be able to carry out the installation to a safe standard.

This all appears simple until someone gets injured and HSE get involved!!!

 

[Onoff]

I mulled a Chinese fan design, probably more overlapping than drawn:

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

That's a very sketchy business model my friend. Surely your products must be appropriately safety tested in the country they are supplied to and that is YOUR responsibility as the business / supplier.

To say that lies with others is nonsense. For example if someone loses their fingers in your gear mechanism then are you saying that's not your fault and your client should have ensured this was fit for purpose and adequately covered to prevent injury?

Not only must your products be appropriately tested and certified, the gate fabricator should be competent to be able to carry out the installation to a safe standard.

This all appears simple until someone gets injured and HSE get involved!!!

I highly appreciate your meticulousness and for my part I make every effort to make the installation of the mechanisms as safe as possible. For this purpose, detailed instructions for the installation, adjustment and operation of the mechanisms have been developed)

 

[AlexWelderMonster]

I mulled a Chinese fan design, probably more overlapping than drawn:

View attachment 461647

Have you ever seen such gates in real life? Or at least been interested in their implementation?
With your light hand, all the paranoids concerned about super-safety have poured into this thread . I must reveal one terrible secret to the general public - Life in general is very dangerous for health - in the end it will end in death!
I got the impression that the British are very timid and if the question is to do something new, they would rather refuse than risk breaking some instructions )))) The truth is that such an opinion is not confirmed by history and the British have always been associated with me with people who are brave and ready for all kinds of experiments, if not to say - Adventures with a capital letter! Please, do not disappoint me))))))

I propose to discuss the possible consequences of using the upper gates on the move. Even a superficial glance at this light makes me take aback! This is a pure guillotine! The following elements will be kept from free falling - with what? And if something goes wrong - what mechanism do you use to prevent the gate from falling?
I see that the public has gathered here because of far-fetched questions and threats of pinching hands in the gearbox and other nonsense that has nothing to do with the operation of swing gates.

-And what do respected colleagues say about this fan-shaped design?

-What hidden and obvious threats do you see?

-And another main question is purely psychological - why does a person who doubts the safe operation of bi-folding gates consider installing a dubious Chinese knockoff and does not bother him in terms of safety?!