Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[GRW]

Why do you insist on making up ridiculous scenarios that just don’t happen to justify your position that you don’t like EV’s? It’s bizarre

Oh yes it does.
And not just cars.
As an example of the idiocy - a site worker recently put up a YouTube video that I saw.
He started talking about a JCB electric mini-digger (which they had to use as it was in an emissions zone area) - by saying it worked pretty much as well as its diesel counterpart when it came to digging holes.
For two hours, whereupon it required charging - for 8-hours.
Now (being a new build ground-up site -just like most such construction sites) - there was no Mains Electricity.
So - the worker (with a WTF look on his face) followed the charge cable till the source was in-shot.
Yup - it was a 40kva Diesel Generator.

(I work with generators, and this sort of lunacy isn't uncommon. They tick boxes to satisfy on the one hand, and then have to use probably 5x the fuel a diesel digger would use a day - to charge the leccy one to do 2-hours)

 

[fizzy]

I've raised this very point many times across the interweb, and the usual reply, even from my own MP a few years ago: "we have to lead by example, to the rest of the world"

That is what the Welsh Assembly always say. Yes they really think India or China will look at Wales and think yes that's a great idea let's go for it

 

[mike os]

I heard China is sending a 50 man delegation to Cardiff to see how much this will reduce pollution in Shanghai

 

[daleyd]

Oh yes it does.
And not just cars.
As an example of the idiocy - a site worker recently put up a YouTube video that I saw.
He started talking about a JCB electric mini-digger (which they had to use as it was in an emissions zone area) - by saying it worked pretty much as well as its diesel counterpart when it came to digging holes.
For two hours, whereupon it required charging - for 8-hours.
Now (being a new build ground-up site -just like most such construction sites) - there was no Mains Electricity.
So - the worker (with a WTF look on his face) followed the charge cable till the source was in-shot.
Yup - it was a 40kva Diesel Generator.

(I work with generators, and this sort of lunacy isn't uncommon. They tick boxes to satisfy on the one hand, and then have to use probably 5x the fuel a diesel digger would use a day - to charge the leccy one to do 2-hours)

Righto, so people are deciding not to charge their (in your own words “expensive”) electric cars with electric which can be had at 7.5p per kWh cheap rate (or in fact even less if you were on an early enough deal) and they are using a generator (which they have to buy, maintain etc) and putting fuel in which would end up costing more? And this is common? I mean, if your going to put forward theories at least make some effort.

 

[GRW]

Actually, I think you’re probably right, the early ones were ok. Take a new sportage for a spin on the B roads of West Wales...

Can't afford one.... & anyway its just a Korean Chelsea Tractor. No thanks lol

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I heard China is sending a 50 man delegation to Cardiff to see how much this will reduce pollution in Shanghai

By the time the delegation returns another 4 coal power stations will have been commissioned no doubt.

 

[GRW]

Is that what they mean when they say take a lead, or is it something more akin to getting ahead on the technology and or/building of this stuff , which we can (maybe, if we don’t give it away or they simply copy it ) then export to other countries if and when they adopt it? It’s a bit of vacuous statement and can be interpreted in a few different ways, though it’s probably ultimately meaningless…

Highly unlikely.
In the UK with all our infrastructure on z crowded little rock - have a lot of users and traffic where the EV has far too many constraints to be viable.

If they are very limited HERE - then how much use/appeal do you think an EV will have in large parts of Africa, S.America, hell N.America come to that.
If you live somewhere where your nearest (say) medical centre is several hours drive away - do you think anyone is going to rush to trade their 500-mile range ICE for an EV anytime soon?

 

[fizzy]

By the time the delegation returns another 4 coal power stations will have been commissioned no doubt.

China are finally waking up to the problem. Probably because their big cities are choked with smog. They are accelerating their nuclear reactor programme massively.
Whilst Western countries like Germany are shutting it down. Now whilst I am no fan of the Germans I am pretty sure a reactor in Germany should be safer than one in China

 

[GRW]

Righto, so people are deciding not to charge their (in your own words “expensive”) electric cars with electric which can be had at 7.5p per kWh cheap rate (or in fact even less if you were on an early enough deal) and they are using a generator (which they have to buy, maintain etc) and putting fuel in which would end up costing more? And this is common? I mean, if your going to put forward theories at least make some effort.

I gave you an example which you can find and verify easily enough. It wasn't an EV, but it is an electrically powered direct substitute for an ICE version.
You think this has only ever happened on ONE construction site?

And trust me - there truly are people dumb enough to think that running a generator on red diesel (which btw now really only Agri can still do legally, as Construction and many others that used to be able to - have now had that rescinded early this year) - will save them money over Mains electric.

I've had LOTS of enquiries for stuff like the above over the last 28-years - many people don't even do simple maths and costing exercises or even think it through.

Others will do it because they are able to "liberate" diesel from their employers, or even because they can "lose" the cost in their business expenses, and save on their personal bills.

Never underestimate the ability for a person to do something dumb, and be convinced it's sheer genius

 

[daleyd]

Highly unlikely.
In the UK with all our infrastructure on z crowded little rock - have a lot of users and traffic where the EV has far too many constraints to be viable.

If they are very limited HERE - then how much use/appeal do you think an EV will have in large parts of Africa, S.America, hell N.America come to that.
If you live somewhere where your nearest (say) medical centre is several hours drive away - do you think anyone is going to rush to trade their 500-mile range ICE for an EV anytime soon?

I’m really not sure what that was aimed at as my post was not really anything to do with EV per se but rather a government statement about why we should be doing x,y and z (which I just said could be interpreted as meaning different things).

But yes you have a valid point if you have to regularly drive 500 miles to pick up your weekly shop or visit your dentist then an EV probably isn’t for you just yet. (Though I can point you to the an EV Facebook page which has many North American members who seemingly quite regularly undertake trips of 1000’s of miles with no problems if you like?)

For the small number of the rest of us who don’t travel through 3 counties on a daily basis though they are probably ok - at least that’s my experience in 6 months of ownership.

I’ll be sure to carry around a diesel genny in the boot though from now on - just to be sure, to be sure.

 

[GRW]

I’ll be sure to carry around a diesel genny in the boot though from now on - just to be sure, to be sure.

I'd suggest a petrol - the fuel costs less, and the genny is a lot lighter (gotta watch that range y'know ).

Actually, I do just that for my E-Mtb for weekend, off-grid mountain biking excursions . I've a Honda Suitcase Genny in the van - which can charge 3 x E-Mtbs at once.

 

[Onoff]

You can't have it both ways - anfew posts back you were saying heavier cars ride better.

Pity that doesn't apply to women. Ask me how I know...

 

[Maker]

Highly unlikely.
In the UK with all our infrastructure on z crowded little rock - have a lot of users and traffic where the EV has far too many constraints to be viable.

Why are you so insistent EV's aren't viable?

When so many people have replied saying they have one and love it, and so many people have noted they've started seeing them everywhere, clearly they are viable. No, they're not cheap up-front, you can't commute between London and Edinburgh and they're no good for pulling a horse box, but for the 99% of people not trying to do that they're ideal, just expensive at the moment, but widespread adoption will mature the second-hand market, leading to cheaper up-front costs in the future.

 

[daleyd]

I'd suggest a petrol - the fuel costs less, and the genny is a lot lighter (gotta watch that range y'know ).

Actually, I do just that for my E-Mtb for weekend, off-grid mountain biking excursions . I've a Honda Suitcase Genny in the van - which can charge 3 x E-Mtbs at once.

Probably easier (and cheaper)just to stick in the 3 pin granny charger and steal someone’s outside socket thinking about it

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Why are you so insistent EV's aren't viable?

When so many people have replied saying they have one and love it, and so many people have noted they've started seeing them everywhere, clearly they are viable. No, they're not cheap up-front, you can't commute between London and Edinburgh and they're no good for pulling a horse box, but for so many people they're ideal, and widespread adoption will mature the second-hand market, leading to cheaper up-front costs.

Viable yes.

A ranger rover is also viable. I'm still not gonna chuck 80k on one of those either.

 

[daleyd]

Why are you so insistent EV's aren't viable?

When so many people have replied saying they have one and love it, and so many people have noted they've started seeing them everywhere, clearly they are viable. No, they're not cheap up-front, you can't commute between London and Edinburgh and they're no good for pulling a horse box, but for the 99% of people not trying to do that they're ideal, just expensive at the moment, but widespread adoption will mature the second-hand market, leading to cheaper up-front costs in the future.

This guy posted on a Facebook page I’m on earlier today, he’s done this mileage in just over 9 months. I’m guessing he’s a taxi driver or something similar from the post?

I asked him about the range degradation which everyone keeps suggesting is going to make these things worthless after x miles - he said none, it’s exactly the same as new.

 

[GRW]

Why are you so insistent EV's aren't viable?

When so many people have replied saying they have one and love it, and so many people have noted they've started seeing them everywhere, clearly they are viable. No, they're not cheap up-front, you can't commute between London and Edinburgh and they're no good for pulling a horse box, but for the 99% of people not trying to do that they're ideal, just expensive at the moment, but widespread adoption will mature the second-hand market, leading to cheaper up-front costs in the future.

I've said they aren't viable for a great many - not all.
Cost excludes many.
The limitations of range, load carrying, towing etc make them unsuitable for many more.
If you live in or close to a large conurbation, don't do many miles etc etc - and you have the purchase price - then they'll do.

 

[pressbrake1]

Come on - you have a scientific mind. Laws of Physics have to apply!
The Qashqai is heavier now as it is a hybrid.
Leaf has 215 tyres - they won't fit wider due to range.
Qashqai typically has 235s fitted. More rubber for same weight bound to stop quicker.
It is only when you drive something like a Caterham that you realise how much of a difference weight makes. I reckon that is why Hammond had such a bad crash in that electric supercar. Yes it was stupidly fast - but he forgot about all that extra mass.

Wrong
Coefficient of friction over force
My Iveco has 225 tyres and it stops fine
My old 7.5 tonner had 750/16 like a landrover but stopped better

Hammond crashed because you need elite level skills to wring the neck of 1000hp
My old 150 hp Capri would make you look silly because there wasn’t enough weight over the back

 

[pressbrake1]

Oh yes it does.
And not just cars.
As an example of the idiocy - a site worker recently put up a YouTube video that I saw.
He started talking about a JCB electric mini-digger (which they had to use as it was in an emissions zone area) - by saying it worked pretty much as well as its diesel counterpart when it came to digging holes.
For two hours, whereupon it required charging - for 8-hours.
Now (being a new build ground-up site -just like most such construction sites) - there was no Mains Electricity.
So - the worker (with a WTF look on his face) followed the charge cable till the source was in-shot.
Yup - it was a 40kva Diesel Generator.

(I work with generators, and this sort of lunacy isn't uncommon. They tick boxes to satisfy on the one hand, and then have to use probably 5x the fuel a diesel digger would use a day - to charge the leccy one to do 2-hours)

I’ve worked on plenty of green sites where the big diesel generator was set up off the boundary by a few feet
Typical show politics

 

[Greeves246]

Have you seen the price of EV tools?

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