If you were growing tomatoes and there was a shortage of tomatoes, would you still be selling them at last years prices?
There we are then...
- Thread starter DAPPH
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There we are then...
One reason is that the suppliers (whatever they say/claim) cannot guarantee at all that the energy you get to use is "Green" or not (& you've no way to be certain either - much like my water analogy).
Also, all the sellers of Green Power are in competition, and will taken as many customers as they can get - while at the same time there are many periods of high demand when Wind & Solar won't be producing enough for all the users.
You can be sure that "Green" users won't be switched off or limited when those periods occur.... meaning at least SOME of the energy they consume, CANNOT be from Renewables.
Ergo the whole thing is misleading and utterly b0llox.
So not "simple" at all. It is misrepresentation & mis-selling - because there can be no certainty of the origin of the electricity consumed
But that's equally b0llocks - power is generated by thousands of generators, it goes into the grid and is consumed by different users, and one user might be buying green, and paying for it. It comes out of the grid surplus /available power. Like a big tank of water. As long as the buyer and generator agree prices thats it.
The peak lopped power from gas/batteries/pumped hydro/ load shedding contracts goes into the same mix and is sucked out by the user. Later on the generator makes up the dirty power used by the user with clean or green power. In the meantime the water tank was kept full.
No boundaries on quantity, or time
I may be talking b0llocks about the time bit, best ignore it.
daleyd
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my understanding is that the energy companies that sell you renewable deals are saying that what they “buy” is generated by renewables, not necessarily the electric you use (how on earth could they say where the electric that you “use” comes from - that’s just daft??)
You're making my point for me.
If people are signing with a specific supplier, on a specific contract, on the basis that the energy they will be using is 100% from Renewable sources..... then the customer is being misled.
There's absolutely no way that a supplier can guarantee that the customer uses exclusively "Green" Energy - and THAT is what they are claiming/promising to supply!
I fail to see what is so hard to comprehend about that.
daleyd
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That’s simply not what they say though - they will say that the energy the supplier buys is from renewables (or words to that effect), not what you the consumer use.
There’s simply no way anybody could say that the electric going to a given house is purely from renewables, given that what you get coming down the wires is potentially from every source connected to the grid at the time. I can’t imagine anyone thinks that at all
James1979
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That’s pretty much what SSE were saying when they wanted to relieve me of an extra £8 a month to guarantee all the electricity I use is from renewable sources.That’s not what they say though - they will say that the energy the supplier buys is from renewables (or words to that effect), not what you the consumer use.
There’s simply no way anybody could say that the electric going to a given house is purely from renewables, given that what you get coming down the wires is potentially from every source connected to the grid at the time. I can’t imagine anyone thinks that at all
Bird knew she was on a loser when I said I couldn’t give a fk how it was made as long as it was cheap
Onoff
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Like MK1 Mexicos then...
Tell you what, what about your comment about Tomato's?
Let's say you were paying to buy organically grown produce.... but your small quantity of organic tomatoes had been mixed in among millions of other non-organically grown tomatoes.
Would you get happy and satisfied that the tomatoes you were supplied from the supplier - were 100% certain to be the organic ones you ordered?
(If you can honestly say "Yes" to the above, then I'd like to sell you some land... I'll need to check the tide tables before you can view it though
)Except SSE and others don't source exclusively from Renewables now do they!That’s simply not what they say though - they will say that the energy the supplier buys is from renewables (or words to that effect), not what you the consumer use.
There’s simply no way anybody could say that the electric going to a given house is purely from renewables, given that what you get coming down the wires is potentially from every source connected to the grid at the time. I can’t imagine anyone thinks that at all
Again, it's not hard to grasp (unless being deliberately obtuse as it suits an agenda or narrative) - its straightforward enough.
Listen to TV ads and the way they are worded.
The wording is constructed to convey the misleading impression/idea, that if you go onto a "Green" Contract/Tariff, that the customer is getting energy exclusively from Renewables - when that patently cannot be the case.
That's not great analogy but I get that but I don't think you are understanding my point. The supply of electricity provided by renewables hasn't changed and if it had then it will have increased. If the electricity supplier is charging me a premium for the portion of electricity they buy that is generated by solar or wind then they don't have justification for telling my electricty is more expensive because gas and oil have gone up given they are selling me a notion that my electricity is not generated by fossil fuels.
daleyd
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It will be worded carefully though - ie what will be in the fine print is that you will use 80 kWh a month (for example) and they will guarantee that they will be buying that amount from renewables. Like you I’m not naive enough to think that means everything that comes down the wires is from renewables.
A company like SSE (and others) would have legal people all over stuff like this before it gets sent out.
James1979
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100%
To me it’s not worth £8
Although as we have established above, most of the public are “galactically stupid” so I’d imagine the majority of the £8 payers would believe they are using green power.
I've no doubt that the wordng will be carefully constructed - to infer something without the wording saying so in a way that can put them in court.
That's not the same thing as being fully honest, straightforward and ethical, and doesn't mean that the advertising and promotion (& the sales calls) aren't also carefully constructed to embed the idea that when you sign up fir Renewable Energy - that that, and only that, is what you'll be supplied with.
Do I really need to answer this. Tomatoes are real things, made up of and from certain origins. They are real.Tell you what, what about your comment about Tomato's?
Let's say you were paying to buy organically grown produce.... but your small quantity of organic tomatoes had been mixed in among millions of other non-organically grown tomatoes.
Would you get happy and satisfied that the tomatoes you were supplied from the supplier - were 100% certain to be the organic ones you ordered?
(If you can honestly say "Yes" to the above, then I'd like to sell you some land... I'll need to check the tide tables before you can view it though
Electricity is electricity. Amps is amps. If you can't understand this then no point going any further with it.
When you produce green electricity, you get a certificate for it. This guarantees only a certain amount exists, based on how many certificates exist. Now, there is an issue, to do with certain renewables that need non renewable energy to get them to market - notably pellet wood generated electricity. You could also argue I guess that any generation that uses ff to make it is not "green" and shouldn't get a certificate, but ultimately you take that up with ofgem.
