Log Fires - the future?

[Erie Fred]

If the stove gets banned...won't people simply remove the stove and just burn on an open fire instead I'm wondering?

Yup, open top barrels in the streets fueled with old tires.....

 

[gaz1]

If the stove gets banned...won't people simply remove the stove and just burn on an open fire instead I'm wondering?

even the old style inset wood/coal fired chimney stove faces the fine so for those like me who have a chimney even i will remove the fire and build a fire within the chimney

whilst im lucky to a degree we have the old cast iron cannon gas miser fires x2 they produce alot of heat and with it being a cast iron build to a degree it holds the heat well

new gas fires are tin crap they may put a good amount of heat out they dont eject the same heat as that old gas miser fire

In the 60,s we had to go to school with jumpers over our heads because of the pea green fog...these pussy whipped politicians would not know bad air if it slapped them across there little pink arrses The air has never been cleaner and my stove is goin nowhere.

london has all the petrol/diesel fumes in the city so they will get enough of the bad air down there nothing like the old chimney fires

the taste is different acrid, soot filled it, also makes your lungs cough if your not used to the old style

im not old enough to remember the old fires but you can still have the effect if you visit none gas areas as i observed chimney smoke coming out of there chimneys and got a taste of coal fires and woods fires when i visited scotland

 

[magnet]

I remember the coal smoke when i was a kid. Even the pit heaps used to smoke. People used to fire their chimneys to clean them they'd have cinders and flames shooting out the top like a mini volcano .
Woe betide anyone who fired their chimney on washing day. The old wives would think nothing of setting about you with a wet teatowel if you disturbed washing day.

 

[Dilkris]

My gran years ago had a gas poker, are they still around, not seen one in 60 years. I can’t see why one wouldn’t run off a propane bottle.

Marvelous !!! I remember having one of those in our home as a child - it was used for lighting the coal fire. What wonderful memories you have brought back to me - thankyou.

 

[gaz1]

to answer your question on recently bought stoves lets say 2-3 years old then owners should have the right to apeal the fine

as the stove companys petitioned the system to extend there time that they could sell old style stoves ( cleaning out old stock of wood stoves )

First Woodburning stove

Morning all. My wife and I are about to have our fireplace opened up and our first woodburner installed. I have no idea where to start with this. We really want to keep the cost of the stove under £800. We've been to a few shops and i've looked all over the internet and decided we like this...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

my personal opinion is owners of said stoves should be refunded for there old type stove as they was wrongly advised by all partys including the companys as this ban was coming into effect and should have been advising owners to buy a new type stove that uses secondary air

 

[Dilkris]

New fines of up to £300 for using log burners

The aim of the fines is to reduce air pollution

www.bristol247.com

bristol council newest ploy

I am the originator of this thread "Log Fires - the future"
Maybe I'm a pessimist and can equally be accused of being negative but sadly - its coming isn't it? This is potentially a huge cash cow for Councils and I believe they will pursue it with some tenacity.

 

[addjunkie]

I am the originator of this thread "Log Fires - the future"
Maybe I'm a pessimist and can equally be accused of being negative but sadly - its coming isn't it? This is potentially a huge cash cow for Councils and I believe they will pursue it with some tenacity.

Silver lining if you get a job as a chimney inspector!

 

[8ob]

I am the originator of this thread "Log Fires - the future"
Maybe I'm a pessimist and can equally be accused of being negative but sadly - its coming isn't it? This is potentially a huge cash cow for Councils and I believe they will pursue it with some tenacity.

I know of a guy that has had two visits from the smoke police and they also checked the moisture content of his logs, that was in Oxford. I dont think this is just Bath, this is country wide.

Bob

 

[Erie Fred]

No worries about looking for smoke, they are watching for methane now:

UN announces high-tech, satellite-based global methane detection system

The Methane Alert and Response System (MARS) is a new initiative to scale up global efforts to detect and act on major emissions sources in a transparent manner and accelerate implementation of the Global Methane Pledge. Methane released by human activities is responsible for around 25% of...

www.unep.org

And I'm sure even simple CO2/CO as well.
They want us living in caves, and will use the highest tech they can to do just that.

 

[gaz1]

I am the originator of this thread "Log Fires - the future"
Maybe I'm a pessimist and can equally be accused of being negative but sadly - its coming isn't it? This is potentially a huge cash cow for Councils and I believe they will pursue it with some tenacity.

im going to upset a few here

should log fires be banned ( i also like the flames of the wood stove )

well to a degree yes they should be as its not economical to heat just 1 room up

should log/multifuel boilers be banned no as they are more economical than your wood fire

it means owners will have to go back to the old way and buy water tanks and storage water tanks to heat there heating and also there hot water

this is where alot of people dont want to go

with the downdraft stoves its the loading as i dont like 5-6 logs in 1 hr is not economical in my eyes

but downdraft stoves can be fitted with 2 boilers either side therefore becomes economical due to water heating ( boiler side of it )

with the rocket stove its light the stove like a wood stove with the sticks and soon after 15 mins roughly you can load a log into it and then its 3-4hrs worth of heat

im also not needing a large wood store either 1.3 cords of wood for canadas winter is enough to run a good while within a rocket stove

 

[Erie Fred]

It looks like allot of people can't (or don't care to) run a woodfire the right way ^^^.
So it smokes, they don't care, it's outside, they are inside.

I wonder if a pellet stove would work better for these people, as a PLC can be programmed to run it properly.
It could have intake air temp sensor, flow, stack temp, O2 sensor etc.

 

[Dilkris]

It looks like allot of people can't (or don't care to) run a woodfire the right way ^^^.
So it smokes, they don't care, it's outside, they are inside.

I wonder if a pellet stove would work better for these people, as a PLC can be programmed to run it properly.
It could have intake air temp sensor, flow, stack temp, O2 sensor etc.

Now this is interesting - almost a full circle.
It is my understanding that the trend to run log fires was driven by economics and the fight to find a solution to negate the rising oil and gas costs - which, reading the comments on this thread, they appear to do so, on the proviso that you have a readily available (and free) source of suitable logs/timber. If you are not gifted with such a source - they apparently don't.

Now we table the possible use of pellets/eco briquettes/biomass derivatives as a source of energy for our heating which, here in the UK, cost in the order of £400 (US$500)/per tonne plus delivery..... so I very much doubt if the numbers work here.

Then we must consider the smart stove complete with PLC and ODB port so as you can download the faults codes, assuming you can afford the cost of the ODB reader and or the software on your computer - which will only run on Windows 7... - to be able to reprogram the PLC, when it is smoking too much or won't start.....

I just so much do not want that extra pain in my life.

 

[8ob]

Now we table the possible use of pellets/eco briquettes/biomass derivatives as a source of energy for our heating which, here in the UK, cost in the order of £400 (US$500)/per tonne plus delivery..... so I very much doubt if the numbers work here.
I just so much do not want that extra pain in my life.

All a bit thought provoking, wondering now about the carbon footprint of the processed logs or pellets. Most of the log kilns I know of run on huge quantities of wet waste timber, add in all the mechanical handling and its not pretty, same for the pellets. Makes the man who cuts and stacks his own logs to air dry prior to use look like a love match for Greta Thunberg.

Bob

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Now this is interesting - almost a full circle.
It is my understanding that the trend to run log fires was driven by economics and the fight to find a solution to negate the rising oil and gas costs - which, reading the comments on this thread, they appear to do so, on the proviso that you have a readily available (and free) source of suitable logs/timber. If you are not gifted with such a source - they apparently don't.

That is wrong, I'm the only person on this thread that has presented hard evidence and cost for a year on year comparison of using gas Vs gas plus log burner, and we have to pay the going rate for our logs. Go check out the post on the first or second page.

 

[gaz1]

Now this is interesting - almost a full circle.
It is my understanding that the trend to run log fires was driven by economics and the fight to find a solution to negate the rising oil and gas costs - which, reading the comments on this thread, they appear to do so, on the proviso that you have a readily available (and free) source of suitable logs/timber. If you are not gifted with such a source - they apparently don't.

Now we table the possible use of pellets/eco briquettes/biomass derivatives as a source of energy for our heating which, here in the UK, cost in the order of £400 (US$500)/per tonne plus delivery..... so I very much doubt if the numbers work here.

Then we must consider the smart stove complete with PLC and ODB port so as you can download the faults codes, assuming you can afford the cost of the ODB reader and or the software on your computer - which will only run on Windows 7... - to be able to reprogram the PLC, when it is smoking too much or won't start.....

I just so much do not want that extra pain in my life.

log fires was used as many like the flames of the stove im one of them

im also one of them that will fall back onto the old type chimney fire just to keep warm

central heating is better as it warms up the whole house its either gas or oil or wood either system can use hot water stores but many owners dont want to fit them imagine bringing back the storage water heater with expansion tank in the loft

gas boilers dont need a hot water tank or expansion tank

people dont want to fit a dual system either gas for morning heat, wood boiler for there after with its own radiators

as goes for the eco stoves rating its wrong it needs to include other factors

its electric usage
wood usage in logs
then its eco range on emmisions

if i wanted to argue eco friendly the rocket stove uses one log per 3hrs whilst the above video uses 5 logs in 1 hr direct to the chimney and extra logs for another few hrs in downdraft mode after lighting and kinderling is used to start both stoves up

im using no electric on the rocket stove but it can be fan assisted if tubes are fitted onto the heat exchanger

most downdraft stoves are electric fan assisted but there is some models that dont use electric downdraft gives x2 heat as they have 2 fireboxes

 

[reb78]

All a bit thought provoking, wondering now about the carbon footprint of the processed logs or pellets. Most of the log kilns I know of run on huge quantities of wet waste timber, add in all the mechanical handling and its not pretty, same for the pellets. Makes the man who cuts and stacks his own logs to air dry prior to use look like a love match for Greta Thunberg.

Bob

I had exactly the same thought. Add to that that we are just chopping down trees and not considering the next generation therefore not farming them (as you have pointed out before in other threads) and it makes it even worse.

 

[reb78]

That is wrong, I'm the only person on this thread that has presented hard evidence and cost for a year on year comparison of using gas Vs gas plus log burner, and we have to pay the going rate for our logs. Go check out the post on the first or second page.

My house has an oil boiler. In winter we don't use it. The Rayburn runs all winter and heats the house (plus cooking and hot water). £5 a day for overnight coal roughly and free logs all day as needed, harvested from my own land and windfalls from a neighbour. What is harvested is either hedge (think big hedges) that are allowed to regrow or tree that has to come down (ash with dieback) that is replaced. Oil would be a lot more costly to heat this place - could be looking at £20 plus a day looking at old bills but thats all dependent on oil price.

ETA - when we installed the Rayburn, the thermal store was also specced for an input from a log stove with a back boiler. I may not go this route as we dont use the lounge every night (as the kitchen is warm) and the run is too convoluted to do by gravity alone therefore it would mean no use of the log burner in a power cut - which is very often when you might most want to use it! The Rayburn is fine in a power cut as the water is gravity fed to the thermal store from the back boiler and all i need to do is run some hot water to cool the store down (so basically just have a bath...)

 

[addjunkie]

All a bit thought provoking, wondering now about the carbon footprint of the processed logs or pellets. Most of the log kilns I know of run on huge quantities of wet waste timber, add in all the mechanical handling and its not pretty, same for the pellets. Makes the man who cuts and stacks his own logs to air dry prior to use look like a love match for Greta Thunberg.

Bob

Add into that equation shipping the pellets across the world, just to burn them…..andit becomes complete madness.

ETA - when we installed the Rayburn, the thermal store was also specced for an input from a log stove with a back boiler. I may not go this route as we dont use the lounge every night (as the kitchen is warm) and the run is too convoluted to do by gravity alone therefore it would mean no use of the log burner in a power cut - which is very often when you might most want to use it! The Rayburn is fine in a power cut as the water is gravity fed to the thermal store from the back boiler and all i need to do is run some hot water to cool the store down (so basically just have a bath...)

Funny we have this set up, it works in a fashion, but the back boiler operates at 55 to 60 degrees, the boiler at 85…so once the fires on, the boiler is off, or the fire would choke its self back to prevent it over heating, so become inefficient. Only last night we were discussing removing it and going to a stand alone multi fuel stove. The extra pumps also consume energy, not sure about 800watts or so. In a power cut we use the generator so just put the heating on.

My conclusion there is no perfect solution normal folk can afford!

 

[knighty]

800watts is a lot for central heating pumps... most are about 40watts on high?

 

[reb78]

Add into that equation shipping the pellets across the world, just to burn them…..andit becomes complete madness.

Funny we have this set up, it works in a fashion, but the back boiler operates at 55 to 60 degrees, the boiler at 85…so once the fires on, the boiler is off, or the fire would choke its self back to prevent it over heating, so become inefficient. Only last night we were discussing removing it and going to a stand alone multi fuel stove. The extra pumps also consume energy, not sure about 800watts or so. In a power cut we use the generator so just put the heating on.

My conclusion there is no perfect solution normal folk can afford!

Our setup is such that the central heating pump circulates once that level in the thermal store reaches 55C. It keeps the water returning back to the Rayburn cool enough that the rayburn damper (the thermostatically controlled one) stays open unless it gets really warm for some reason. It works quite well and continually circulates the rayburn heat around the house. If i really ramp the Rayburn up it can send temps of 85+ up to the thermal store so can go a fair bit higher.