daedalusminos
Member
- Messages
- 2,246
- Location
- Norwich
Yes I got both sheets, in fact the heatbed/sheets and mesh leveling were the main reasons for getting it,
Thanks for the heads up on cal, I'll keep an eye out for that
- Thread starter Screwdriver
- Start date
Thanks for the heads up on cal, I'll keep an eye out for that
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,645
- Location
- UK
I'm going through the list of upgrades I've planned, first off is Octoprint. It works fine including webcam, which is great as I can check on print progress while I'm in the house. I'm using the pi v2.1 camera, which is OK at 8MP and is wired back to the pi via a ribbon cable but you can use any USB webcam. I nearly bought the "noir" version with nightvision IR LEDs etc. But I think it is better to buy a cheap USB light and see it in colour when the office main lights are off.
I've added an Adafruit 3.5" touch screen, this isn't necessary, just a bit of fun given you can use your mobile or PC to control it via Octoprint but may stop the kids from monopolising my PC in the office when I'm trying to work. I did buy a cheapo screen and I was struggling as using their drivers broke the webcam, I could probably fix it but quite frankly, I can't be assed
Normally I love a challenge but I have a kitchen to finish.
Installation was very easy, burn the image to the SD card, boot the pi, install the desktop needed for the touchscreen, this is an optional step. Upgrade the OS to the latest, go through the octopi start up steps via the browser, upgrade to the latest version, install the TouchUI plug-in that helps with mobile and touch screen displays, plug the printer into the pi via USB and done.
Only issues I've had :-
Conclusion - a worthwhile upgrade especially of the printer is remote and you want to keep an eye on it.
Here's the case I used https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3030160, there is a pi 4 version that somebody remixed
I didn't use the camera mount though, sounds like it was a bit naff, so I used this one instead https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3827338
I used a pi 4 in case I ever wanted to use the slicer on it, but probably won't.
Here's afew pics
back of the case with fan attached
camera mount, USB reading light and a view of the touch screen
The new screen mirrors the existing screen nicely, not that I'm too bothered about the aesthetics.
the temperature screen, you can see gcode, or active layers, control the axis etc. etc. Most of what you can do via the standard octoprint browser. TouchUI It also kicks in when you go to octoprint via your phone browser so much easier for fat fingers.
Next up is the micro-swiss direct drive hot end upgrade. I have just about completed it, just doing some calibration.
Cheers
Andy
I've added an Adafruit 3.5" touch screen, this isn't necessary, just a bit of fun given you can use your mobile or PC to control it via Octoprint but may stop the kids from monopolising my PC in the office when I'm trying to work. I did buy a cheapo screen and I was struggling as using their drivers broke the webcam, I could probably fix it but quite frankly, I can't be assed
Normally I love a challenge but I have a kitchen to finish.Installation was very easy, burn the image to the SD card, boot the pi, install the desktop needed for the touchscreen, this is an optional step. Upgrade the OS to the latest, go through the octopi start up steps via the browser, upgrade to the latest version, install the TouchUI plug-in that helps with mobile and touch screen displays, plug the printer into the pi via USB and done.
Only issues I've had :-
- powering the pi 4, a straight USB C cable hit the z axis limit switch so bought a right angled adapter, but this issue goes away when you install the BLtouch bed sensor as the z axis limit switch is removed. This issue only arises with the case I used, there are loads of different pi cases out there.
- The webcam arm I chose prints a new x axis stepper motor mount. There is no x axis adjustment and it seemed to move it to the left a few mm which meant the nozzle missed the bed on autohome. The y and z axis limit switches can be slid up the extrusion but not the x axis. The fix in my case was to add a packer to the hot-end bracket which actuates the switch. there are other ways of doing it.
- The USB interface on the printer is an ancient minu USB, not micro or C type, not a major issue and fortunately I found a nice short cable in my box of bits.
- For the touchscreen, some instructions omit that in addtion to installing the touchUI plug-in, you also need to download a few scripts from the TouchUI github site.
- If you install a fan, make sure its 10mm deep, not 20mm otherwise it fouls the frame. I avoided this as teh fan I had one 10mm more by accident than design. Nice and quiet too.
Conclusion - a worthwhile upgrade especially of the printer is remote and you want to keep an eye on it.
Here's the case I used https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3030160, there is a pi 4 version that somebody remixed
I didn't use the camera mount though, sounds like it was a bit naff, so I used this one instead https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3827338
I used a pi 4 in case I ever wanted to use the slicer on it, but probably won't.
Here's afew pics
back of the case with fan attached
camera mount, USB reading light and a view of the touch screen
The new screen mirrors the existing screen nicely, not that I'm too bothered about the aesthetics.
the temperature screen, you can see gcode, or active layers, control the axis etc. etc. Most of what you can do via the standard octoprint browser. TouchUI It also kicks in when you go to octoprint via your phone browser so much easier for fat fingers.
Next up is the micro-swiss direct drive hot end upgrade. I have just about completed it, just doing some calibration.
Cheers
Andy
Screwdriver
Member
- Messages
- 10,549
I'm going through the list of upgrades I've planned, first off is Octoprint. It works fine including webcam, which is great as I can check on print progress while I'm in the house. I'm using the pi v2.1 camera, which is OK at 8MP and is wired back to the pi via a ribbon cable but you can use any USB webcam. I nearly bought the "noir" version with nightvision IR LEDs etc. But I think it is better to buy a cheap USB light and see it in colour when the office main lights are off.
I've added an Adafruit 3.5" touch screen, this isn't necessary, just a bit of fun given you can use your mobile or PC to control it via Octoprint but may stop the kids from monopolising my PC in the office when I'm trying to work. I did buy a cheapo screen and I was struggling as using their drivers broke the webcam, I could probably fix it but quite frankly, I can't be assed
Installation was very easy, burn the image to the SD card, boot the pi, install the desktop needed for the touchscreen, this is an optional step. Upgrade the OS to the latest, go through the octopi start up steps via the browser, upgrade to the latest version, install the TouchUI plug-in that helps with mobile and touch screen displays, plug the printer into the pi via USB and done.
Only issues I've had :-
The time lapse picture are very nice.
- powering the pi 4, a straight USB C cable hit the z axis limit switch so bought a right angled adapter, but this issue goes away when you install the BLtouch bed sensor as the z axis limit switch is removed. This issue only arises with the case I used, there are loads of different pi cases out there.
- The webcam arm I chose prints a new x axis stepper motor mount. There is no x axis adjustment and it seemed to move it to the left a few mm which meant the nozzle missed the bed on autohome. The y and z axis limit switches can be slid up the extrusion but not the x axis. The fix in my case was to add a packer to the hot-end bracket which actuates the switch. there are other ways of doing it.
- The USB interface on the printer is an ancient minu USB, not micro or C type, not a major issue and fortunately I found a nice short cable in my box of bits.
- For the touchscreen, some instructions omit that in addtion to installing the touchUI plug-in, you also need to download a few scripts from the TouchUI github site.
- If you install a fan, make sure its 10mm deep, not 20mm otherwise it fouls the frame. I avoided this as teh fan I had one 10mm more by accident than design. Nice and quiet too.
Conclusion - a worthwhile upgrade especially of the printer is remote and you want to keep an eye on it.
Here's the case I used https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3030160, there is a pi 4 version that somebody remixed
I didn't use the camera mount though, sounds like it was a bit naff, so I used this one instead https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3827338
I used a pi 4 in case I ever wanted to use the slicer on it, but probably won't.
Here's afew pics
back of the case with fan attached
View attachment 248234
camera mount, USB reading light and a view of the touch screen
View attachment 248235
The new screen mirrors the existing screen nicely, not that I'm too bothered about the aesthetics.
View attachment 248236
the temperature screen, you can see gcode, or active layers, control the axis etc. etc. Most of what you can do via the standard octoprint browser. TouchUI It also kicks in when you go to octoprint via your phone browser so much easier for fat fingers.
View attachment 248237
Next up is the micro-swiss direct drive hot end upgrade. I have just about completed it, just doing some calibration.
Cheers
Andy
You didn't get the optional Z-axis cupholder??
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,645
- Location
- UK
You didn't get the optional Z-axis cupholder??
I've come to the conclusion that the Ender 3 is a great machine if you can stop fiddling with it. Its probably better cost wise to buy the machine you want with the features already installed rather than keep tinkering with it like I do, but where's the fun in that?
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,645
- Location
- UK
Next up was the new direct drive Micro-Swiss hot end. Suposedly, by moving the extrusion motor closer to the hot end then it avoids any play in the tube and you get better prints. Also the PTFE tube doesn't go all the way to the hot end in this design, this is supposed to stop heat creep where the filament melts before it gets to the nozzle, and a few other maladies. The main benefit is that you can use flexible filement, so should be able to make prints using rubber type materials like TPU.
Mounting it was straight forward. No point going though it, the PDF or video on the micro-Swiss web site is good enough and there are others on youtube etc.
The only things I needed to print was a mounting bracket for the BLtouch bed levelling sensor (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4193449), and a knob for the extruder to make gripping the spindle easier for changing filament (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4183851).
The main thing I needed to do in terms of calibration are extrusion or e-steps. The stock Ender 3 Pro was set to 93. This is the number of steps that the extruder needs to make to extrude 1mm of filament (input not output as it goes in typically at 1.75mm diameter and comes out of the noxzzle at 0.4mm)
Micro-swiss recommend to start at 130 e-steps. So I set this in the printer via the screen menu (control, motion, steps, esteps) then saved the config before fine tuning it. To do this I marked some white PLA with a pen so I could measure how much is used, this is a good use of the bit they throw in the box when you buy a new printer. Instructions are here, my ideal setting ended up to be 136.84
https://all3dp.com/2/ender-3-calibration-how-to-calibrate-your-ender-3/#extruder-calibration
Next step is the hot end PID calibration. First move the extruder to about 10mm above the bed and heat the bed to simulate conditions when printing. The terminal window in Octoprint comes in nicely for this calibration with Marlin. You send an m503 command and write down the existing P. I and D values in case it you have to revert, then send something like m303 e0 s205 c, the m303 initiates a PID test, e0 is extruder 0, there is only one on my printer, s205 is the temperature to test around and c8 is eight iterations. The heater will cycle around that temp eight times then come back with an average value for each. You then issue an m301 command with those values. Something like m301 p24.4 i2.22 d66.97 then store them with an m500.
I have changed a few values like retraction distance and speed needed for the new hot end and initial layer printing temp and bed temp to aid adhesion and limit warping. With PLA a cooler bed is preferable to stop warping.
Here's the new hot end and extruder fitted, you can see the place where the extruder used to be in the back left where there is now a red filament guide. I used the old white PTFEtube rather than the more expensive capricorn tube as tight tolerences are no longer needed now the extruder is directly above the hot-end. Reason whas its slightly transparent so you can see the filament as you feed it in unless its white/pale filament.
While setting it up I used a self adhesive cable tie mount as a spacer for x-axis adjustment so the nozzle stays over the bed when auto-homing.
But when I printed the bed levelling sensor mount I remixed it by beefing up the 3mm packer all ready on it to 7.5mm, I also increased the cut out to avoid the hot-end fan/cover screws. This is the closest I have come to designing my own thing so far
Most BLTouch mounts reuse the screws that hold this cover on, so everytime you take this off to maintain the hot-end or change the nozzle you have to reallign the sensor. This mount avoid that and solves the x-axis adjustment too.
The mount operationg the X-axis limit switch.
and with BLtouch bed sensor fitted ready for the next stage.
Next step is filament run out sensor, bed sensor and new 32 bit main board. All require fiddling around underneath so i thought I would get all these plugged up at the same time so I can get all the cables dressed nicely using nylon sleeving etc. I'll get the main board and bed sensor working first as I need to remove the z-axis sensor cabling from the main board to fit the bed sensor.
Cheers
Andy
Mounting it was straight forward. No point going though it, the PDF or video on the micro-Swiss web site is good enough and there are others on youtube etc.
The only things I needed to print was a mounting bracket for the BLtouch bed levelling sensor (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4193449), and a knob for the extruder to make gripping the spindle easier for changing filament (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4183851).
The main thing I needed to do in terms of calibration are extrusion or e-steps. The stock Ender 3 Pro was set to 93. This is the number of steps that the extruder needs to make to extrude 1mm of filament (input not output as it goes in typically at 1.75mm diameter and comes out of the noxzzle at 0.4mm)
Micro-swiss recommend to start at 130 e-steps. So I set this in the printer via the screen menu (control, motion, steps, esteps) then saved the config before fine tuning it. To do this I marked some white PLA with a pen so I could measure how much is used, this is a good use of the bit they throw in the box when you buy a new printer. Instructions are here, my ideal setting ended up to be 136.84
https://all3dp.com/2/ender-3-calibration-how-to-calibrate-your-ender-3/#extruder-calibration
Next step is the hot end PID calibration. First move the extruder to about 10mm above the bed and heat the bed to simulate conditions when printing. The terminal window in Octoprint comes in nicely for this calibration with Marlin. You send an m503 command and write down the existing P. I and D values in case it you have to revert, then send something like m303 e0 s205 c, the m303 initiates a PID test, e0 is extruder 0, there is only one on my printer, s205 is the temperature to test around and c8 is eight iterations. The heater will cycle around that temp eight times then come back with an average value for each. You then issue an m301 command with those values. Something like m301 p24.4 i2.22 d66.97 then store them with an m500.
I have changed a few values like retraction distance and speed needed for the new hot end and initial layer printing temp and bed temp to aid adhesion and limit warping. With PLA a cooler bed is preferable to stop warping.
Here's the new hot end and extruder fitted, you can see the place where the extruder used to be in the back left where there is now a red filament guide. I used the old white PTFEtube rather than the more expensive capricorn tube as tight tolerences are no longer needed now the extruder is directly above the hot-end. Reason whas its slightly transparent so you can see the filament as you feed it in unless its white/pale filament.
While setting it up I used a self adhesive cable tie mount as a spacer for x-axis adjustment so the nozzle stays over the bed when auto-homing.
But when I printed the bed levelling sensor mount I remixed it by beefing up the 3mm packer all ready on it to 7.5mm, I also increased the cut out to avoid the hot-end fan/cover screws. This is the closest I have come to designing my own thing so far
Most BLTouch mounts reuse the screws that hold this cover on, so everytime you take this off to maintain the hot-end or change the nozzle you have to reallign the sensor. This mount avoid that and solves the x-axis adjustment too.
The mount operationg the X-axis limit switch.
and with BLtouch bed sensor fitted ready for the next stage.
Next step is filament run out sensor, bed sensor and new 32 bit main board. All require fiddling around underneath so i thought I would get all these plugged up at the same time so I can get all the cables dressed nicely using nylon sleeving etc. I'll get the main board and bed sensor working first as I need to remove the z-axis sensor cabling from the main board to fit the bed sensor.
Cheers
Andy
daedalusminos
Member
- Messages
- 2,246
- Location
- Norwich
Well the MK3s is finished, quite a joy to build...then came the problems. Pic shows all the failed prints!
Screwdriver
Member
- Messages
- 10,549
Oh well, that’s Christmas sorted. I want a one of those!
Though I did just but a ton of filament direct from PRUSA. Better start saving up....
Though I did just but a ton of filament direct from PRUSA. Better start saving up....
What? You want a load of failed prints...lol
daedalusminos
Member
- Messages
- 2,246
- Location
- Norwich
Correct you don't want a load of failed prints. After assembling, the self test went fine, and calibration was OK after a tweak. The first print was good, a breeze compared to my previous printer.
Things went down hill with the second, and every print since, at random times, usually within first 20min the printer will reset resulting in a failed print.
2 bouts of 3hours each of online chat to Prusa support....the last one finishing at 12:30am this morning but no solution and not much confidence in their suggested problem (faulty bed thermistor), o suspect main board or PSU, but first thing I'll try is rolling back the firmware.
Having said that the printing it has done is superb quality.
Things went down hill with the second, and every print since, at random times, usually within first 20min the printer will reset resulting in a failed print.
2 bouts of 3hours each of online chat to Prusa support....the last one finishing at 12:30am this morning but no solution and not much confidence in their suggested problem (faulty bed thermistor), o suspect main board or PSU, but first thing I'll try is rolling back the firmware.
Having said that the printing it has done is superb quality.
Screwdriver
Member
- Messages
- 10,549
I'm not seeing a "lot" of failed prints but appreciate the bizarre illogic of my reply. I just assume you've got a dodgy one, much as I assume I have lucked out with a particularly good Ender3. The basic design of the PRUSA is good though and should be capable of producing some fine prints once you've ironed out the fault(s).
It has to be said though, it is entirely possible you've made some error during the installation/commissioning.
There, I said it...
DAPPH
as dyslexik as I'm daft
- Messages
- 7,192
- Location
- Near to Cross Hands Llanelli SouthWales GB
Just a thought .. did you download the latest programme direct from Joe Prusa's site and then update the printer with it ?
daedalusminos
Member
- Messages
- 2,246
- Location
- Norwich
Yep, that's one of the first things chat support walk you through and there's nothing wrong with the build, the fact is if it was something obvious or common those support guys would have seen it before....but it was obvious they didn't have a clue.
Screwdriver
Member
- Messages
- 10,549
Yes sorry to sound so dismissive. Sounds like you have covered all the bases and ruled out the obvious (which would be the most likely probable causes). Again, my assumption is that this particular printer is a well known reliable device so you must have lucked out on receiving a duff one.
Not sure how you made this purchase but having tried the regular channels I'd go nuke and start demanding full refund money back or swap repair etc.
@daedalusminos it does sound like you've been unlucky.
With all things IT update the firmware is always the first suggestion but the reality is from the description of the problem it was unlikely to be a firmware issue. I don't think we even updated ours at the beginning, we just ran it.
I can fully understand the frustration but there aren't many things out there with 24h support, I'm sure they'll get you sorted.
With all things IT update the firmware is always the first suggestion but the reality is from the description of the problem it was unlikely to be a firmware issue. I don't think we even updated ours at the beginning, we just ran it.
I can fully understand the frustration but there aren't many things out there with 24h support, I'm sure they'll get you sorted.
Bladevane
Forum Supporter
- Messages
- 1,032
- Location
- Harwell, Oxon
I shared the cost of a RepRap Prusa type printer (from Factory3D in Newcastle) with a friend so we could dip our toes into 3D printing before committing to bigger money. The build was very straight forward and we could print successfully as soon as all the set up was done. Since then we have been experimenting with different filaments (PLA good, PETG good, PLA+ good, SPLA difficult) and tweaking settings. We also carried out a couple of modifications to improve set up like increasing Z stop bolt length and printing a 5 lobe knob for easy adjustment (the bolt thread is M3 so each lobe is 0.1 mm), supports for the Z drive threaded bar and a bracket to hold a DTI for bed levelling. It's a fantastic learning experience which, coupled with some Fusion 360 tutorials and frustration, are all coming together. I still hanker after a Prusa i3 Mk3S but the difference between want and need play a part in the decision making. I think some of the tales above confirm my thinking that buying a Chinese clone can be hit or miss but am also concerned with the bad experience with the Prusa. 3D printers have a way to go before they are as reliable as 2D printers but the technology is still (relatively) in its infancy.
I would say bad experience with Prusa printers is rare and it's hard to beat the flexible heat bed sheets on the Mk3S.
To get the best out of them it really does need to go hand in hand with learning CAD or you are restricted to printing stuff other people needed to design.
My youngest printed a handbrake lever cover for his Land Rover Series 3, he's done it in the style of a Ken Block with Hoonigan moulded in the side.
To get the best out of them it really does need to go hand in hand with learning CAD or you are restricted to printing stuff other people needed to design.
My youngest printed a handbrake lever cover for his Land Rover Series 3, he's done it in the style of a Ken Block with Hoonigan moulded in the side.
To be fair any printer can have issues. This isn't the first I've heard of with Prusa. Personally I've went the Ender 3 route and I'm upgrading areas where I feel I'll notice a difference. Also: the genuine Prusa spring steel bed sheets fit an Ender 3 when rotated 90deg 
daedalusminos
Member
- Messages
- 2,246
- Location
- Norwich
That looks pretty similar to my previous printer (a Prusa i3 clone o Chinese origin) which has served me well for years, it did have a number of annoyances; the Z dist for first layer (variations), the aluminum bed not being perfectly flat (which meant you were confined to the central portion and getting parts to stick but not too much then getting them off.
I never had a blockage in the all metal MK8 extruder and I could just about print flex with care. The Z axis are simple threaded rods (M5 I think), the end-stops just simple micro-switches and the heat-bed attached by 4 sprung loaded screws for leveling.
The MK3s is a totally different beast (when it works!) - fixed bed, out of level is measured before every print and compensated for on the fly with active Z adjustment, no end stops and what surprised me was that the in layer filament tear o is performed with a Z jerk therefore no (or little) blobs on the walls
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,645
- Location
- UK
I've stopped tinkering with the printer hardware for a while as I had to make some kitchen drawers, 3 down, 28 to go.... plus I did some small test pieces and managed to tune some settings to get good results so thought I would pause while I'm ahead. I wish I had printed the test piece before and after each upgrade to see if there was quantifiable benefits.
The first time I printed the test piece, it warped and almost broke free of the bed.
I turned the bed temp down and used some bed glue and it was far better.
Still room for improvement but getting better.
But I did find time to install octolapse. There is a native time lapse tool with octoprint but octolapse goes a stage further and inserts gcode into your print file so you can do fancy things like making sure the print head is in the same spot and out of the way when a shot is taken.
So I thought something tall would be good to print while is checked out the myriad of options. So I chose a vase, some silk brass coloured PLA and off we went. I followed advice and selected 0% infill to get a hollow vessel, and off we went.
I should have read a big further, I ended up with a hollow vase with top and bottom. I then found Cura settings that did help, but got it slightly wrong and ended up with no base. The print on the right was the outcome. The strange whiskers was due to setting octolapse too aggressively. It stopped and centred the print head after each vector to take a shot, not each layer or number of layers.
Third time lucky, the vase and octolapse worked out fine, but I do need to focus the pi camera better.
I also printed a drill bit stand, almost the first practical thing I've printed
Once I get the kitchen, porch, ensuite, tractor rebuilt and the four machines in the queue renovated I think I will make my own 3D printer/router/engraver thing for fun. It may be a while.....
Cheers
Andy
The first time I printed the test piece, it warped and almost broke free of the bed.
I turned the bed temp down and used some bed glue and it was far better.
Still room for improvement but getting better.
But I did find time to install octolapse. There is a native time lapse tool with octoprint but octolapse goes a stage further and inserts gcode into your print file so you can do fancy things like making sure the print head is in the same spot and out of the way when a shot is taken.
So I thought something tall would be good to print while is checked out the myriad of options. So I chose a vase, some silk brass coloured PLA and off we went. I followed advice and selected 0% infill to get a hollow vessel, and off we went.
I should have read a big further, I ended up with a hollow vase with top and bottom. I then found Cura settings that did help, but got it slightly wrong and ended up with no base. The print on the right was the outcome. The strange whiskers was due to setting octolapse too aggressively. It stopped and centred the print head after each vector to take a shot, not each layer or number of layers.
Third time lucky, the vase and octolapse worked out fine, but I do need to focus the pi camera better.
I also printed a drill bit stand, almost the first practical thing I've printed
Once I get the kitchen, porch, ensuite, tractor rebuilt and the four machines in the queue renovated I think I will make my own 3D printer/router/engraver thing for fun. It may be a while.....
Cheers
Andy
