Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Roger440]

No idea, but the insurers wouldn't cover it if they didn't have confidence in the lifespan of the battery.

Id like to see the small print. But id hazard a guess at 9 years old as the 4th owner, chances of you getting a new battery for "free" are zero.

You may well get the actual component for free, but it will be dependant on dealer servicing from new, stamped service book, diagnosis by them of the fault, at your cost, and cost to swap out will be yours too. Or something like this.

Whatever the details, the chances of you rocking up for a free battery pack at 9 years as a subsequent owner are slim.

Ford wriggle out of their body warranty because the inspection page in the service book isnt stamped. Because their dealers generally dont stamp it, and no one notices untill its too late.

The motor industry are well versed in avoiding such warranty headaches.

 

[Ubique]

Are the warranties not paid for by a form of insurance on the manufacturers side?

Yes. We have to fill in the claim forms on behalf of the vehicle manufacturer so I can confidently say they are insured against failure, not engineered to last.

ETA - be careful with used vehicles, the original parts may well be changed under extended warranty - but you don't get warranty on warranty, so buying a BEV that has already had a battery, charger, PTC heater or motor changed, doesn't mean all the expensive parts of the vehicle will still have extended warranty cover.

 

[Roger440]

I doubt it, but if it makes you feel better to think that then knock yourself out.

Problem is, he is almost certainly right.

 

[Ubique]

I've not seen any figures for a long time, but I'd guess private buyers will a lot more than 50% now.
Company cars are no where near as common as people think, although they have had a bit of a resurgence in recent years due to changes in taxation.

Not many private buyers of anything sub £80k, most are PCP or some other form of lease. Most company cars are through lease companies, really big companies (or big car users) go direct to the manufacturer, Foxtons for example.

 

[premmington]

Yes. We have to fill in the claim forms on behalf of the vehicle manufacturer so I can confidently say they are insured against failure, not engineered to last.

ETA - be careful with used vehicles, the original parts may well be changed under extended warranty - but you don't get warranty on warranty, so buying a BEV that has already had a battery, charger, PTC heater or motor changed, doesn't mean all the expensive parts of the vehicle will still have extended warranty cover.

So old mate - just for the record. Do you own/would you buy yourself a EV or Hybrid? Would you buy one yourself?

I already fessed up - I would not unless in was new and in warranty and would swap it for a new warranty (with a car chucked in) every three years - I drive small petrol cars and prefer the "splash and dash" refueling option

 

[Ubique]

I'll stick with my fossil-fuelled spawn-of-the-devil Range Rover, Even in-warranty, the BEV's seem to have a MTBF of <5000 miles, they're heavy on tyres and every one we see comes in with the aircon/heating turned off and the dash set to 'remaining range'. Hybrids also suffer from issues, mainly batteries, which rather than defaulting to ICE-only, put the vehicle into a 'safe state' i.e. it'll do nothing except allow you to listen to the radio whilst awaiting recovery. Several of the sales reptiles have BEV's, there is a rush for the on-site chargers every morning as they don't want to spend their own cash charging them up, one of them nearly had to get recovered (arrived with 2 miles range) after getting stuck in a Stau on the M1 for 20 mins, despite having the heating off & hat/coat/gloves on in the 3 degrees ambient, people forget that the inverters consume current to lock the motors in place, even though they're not moving and have their foot on the brake - better to shift into Park.

And yes, every time I refuel in single digit minutes, it feels good.

 

[premmington]

@Ubique I am sorry old mate - but we are gonna get lynched on here!

But is it looking like the only two people who work on theses EV's here - would not buy/own one.

Please/please can the "eco gang" be nice to us

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Also remember - us full time/long term car mechanics are not new car buyers or ever will be! We also seen enuf of the sales reptiles to know renting a car on PHP is not a good idea either.

 

[addjunkie]

So old mate - just for the record. Do you own/would you buy yourself a EV or Hybrid? Would you buy one yourself?

I already fessed up - I would not unless in was new and in warranty and would swap it for a new warranty (with a car chucked in) every three years - I drive small petrol cars and prefer the "splash and dash" refueling option

Im in this camp too…..far to much tech in any new motor to own it out of warranty, but then Im lucky enough to be in the position to afford in warranty driving. Out of warranty it would be small petrol or a defender!

 

[GRW]

Yes. We have to fill in the claim forms on behalf of the vehicle manufacturer so I can confidently say they are insured against failure, not engineered to last.

ETA - be careful with used vehicles, the original parts may well be changed under extended warranty - but you don't get warranty on warranty, so buying a BEV that has already had a battery, charger, PTC heater or motor changed, doesn't mean all the expensive parts of the vehicle will still have extended warranty cover.

Do you know if its the same warranty system* (if not the same actual figures) with EV battery packs, as it is with Deep-Cycle Traction Cells Industrial stuff (e.g. Fork Lift Packs)?

*When I was buying Deep-Cycle Traction packs for work off-grid jobs, the Warranty was "Pro-Rata" - I.e. from new you got 1500 cycles/5-years on the cells. So if a cell failed early on, it was 100% covered, but if your pack was 3-years-old & it failed, you'd only get 40% Warranty.

Is the Warranty on EV's done on a similar way?

 

[Ubique]

Honestly I couldn't say - we do have to include the date of first registration, mileage covered and a 'cell report' where the BMS is functional, along with a transport suitability report (is it damaged, was it made safe through the BMS, is the contactor state plausible etc.). Certainly the first three years will be 100%,
I would imagine there is some horse trading done with older/well used batteries, the well-abused principle of 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil' will add some goodwill contributions into the mix as well. The older hybrids with Tesla built batteries get no contribution or goodwill at all beyond the initial warranty period, there is also a company policy to not part-ex. any non-brand BEV's or hybrids due to the downturn in value, it was initially 'don't buy in used Tesla's' now it's any non-brand.

 

[Ubique]

Im in this camp too…..far to much tech in any new motor to own it out of warranty, but then Im lucky enough to be in the position to afford in warranty driving. Out of warranty it would be small petrol or a defender!

I don't mind the tech, which in the main is pretty reliable - but makes a big show of itself when (not if) it has a sick day, there's just nothing out there that I'd like to buy new...

 

[reb78]

there's just nothing out there that I'd like to buy new...

This is half of my problem with all new cars (not just EV's). Even if I coulr afford them they are all somewhat boring looking and just have no appeal. The best all round looking car almost ever to my eye was the Rover P5b coupe.... I used to love the look of tbe Jag XJS but of todays offerings... they are all just a bit bland. Maybe the Volvo XC90 - the new look but thats waaaaay out of my price range.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Interesting to hear about tyre wear...I guess that's because of the added battery weigh?

I'm in the middle of deciding on a new or nearly new car at the moment.

I quite like the look of the Kia Soul...only because it actually looks different! The intended driving is 50-100 mile range...would keep my XC70 for long distance.

I'm lucky I can charge on my drive...but I'm worried about parking the thing so close to my house!

 

[GRW]

The older hybrids with Tesla built batteries get no contribution or goodwill at all beyond the initial warranty period, there is also a company policy to not part-ex. any non-brand BEV's or hybrids due to the downturn in value, it was initially 'don't buy in used Tesla's' now it's any non-brand.

Am I reading that right?
Your company has a stated internal policy to refuse to accept Tesla's plus certain other EV's in part-exchange for another Vehicle?
(Non-brand?? - does that mean any brand other than the Marque your organisation sells/is a vendor for?)
"Due to the downturn in value" - suggests to me that a used EV/PHEV depreciates very heavily?

(If I am reading your post correctly.... then I can't say I'm surprised, but it still doesn't cheer me up to have my expectations confirmed).

 

[GRW]

This is half of my problem with all new cars (not just EV's). Even if I coulr afford them they are all somewhat boring looking and just have no appeal. The best all round looking car almost ever to my eye was the Rover P5b coupe.... I used to love the look of tbe Jag XJS but of todays offerings... they are all just a bit bland. Maybe the Volvo XC90 - the new look but thats waaaaay out of my price range.

P5B Coupe. One of my favourite, best-styled "saloon" road cars ever

 

[premmington]

Am I reading that right?
Your company has a stated internal policy to refuse to accept Tesla's plus certain other EV's in part-exchange for another Vehicle?
(Non-brand?? - does that mean any brand other than the Marque your organisation sells/is a vendor for?)
"Due to the downturn in value" - suggests to me that a used EV/PHEV depreciates very heavily?

(If I am reading your post correctly.... then I can't say I'm surprised, but it still doesn't cheer me up to have my expectations confirmed).

Oh yeah - there are carparks full of used secondhand defleeted PHP BEV/PHEV cars lying about unsold.

Covid helped move a few - because of new vehicle shortages - this saved some online dealers that were stuck with dead stock from going under.

But industry position is fragile - they can find new buyers - but not used buyers (but this may change into the future?)

The market moves and changes - nothing stays still....

 

[GRW]

Oh yeah - there are carparks full of used secondhand defleeted PHP BEV/PHEV cars lying about unsold.

Covid helped move a few - because of new vehicle shortages - this saved some online dealers that were stuck with dead stock from going under.

But industry position is fragile - they can find new buyers - but not used buyers (but this may change into the future?)

The market moves and changes - nothing stays still....

Again, I'm not surprised, but it's disturbing nonetheless.
Clearly, I'm far from the only punter scared-off by the complexity & potential losses.... of buying a used EV/PHEV then - which will affect the decisions of those considering buying a new one (as they'll stand to lose a lot more in depreciation on top of everything else).

Full circle. To try to mitigate & avoid the worst risks, punters (with no other options in future) will turn to leasing instead. This will of course make their motoring much more costly, but sidesteps their personal liability for breakdowns and later disposal.

But wait.... I can't say that because I can't just use common sense and extrapolate probable outcomes (though of course "Forecasting" isnt a thing, right?) - I need some official figures & reports

 

[atomant48]

Interesting to hear about tyre wear...I guess that's because of the added battery weigh?

I would have thought it was mainly the torque?

 

[atomant48]

@Ubique I am sorry old mate - but we are gonna get lynched on here!

But is it looking like the only two people who work on theses EV's here - would not buy/own one.

Please/please can the "eco gang" be nice to us

--------

Also remember - us full time/long term car mechanics are not new car buyers or ever will be! We also seen enuf of the sales reptiles to know renting a car on PHP is not a good idea either.

No lynching from me … I respect your insight and opinions and experience. One come back though … don’t assume everyone’s “good ideas” are purely from a financial point of view. I spend a lot each month (and have done for several years) to put my wife and kids in a “warranty” …. For several reasons. And to me although that costa a lot it is a “good idea”

 

[minimutly]

Hmmm, looks like my lifelong way of motoring is on the rocks then? I never buy new, anything from 4 yrs old to 8 is my area. Given that this ends up at sub £5k, it would seem I’m doomed, if I live long enough.
Buying a nearly new EV for reasonable money might become possible, we’ll see who’s right I guess?
Will have to run my old minis - on lpg? Or synthetic petrol? Will lpg exist?maybe synthetic lpg?...
Could convert the end of the workshop to a stable I suppose? Interestingly, I used to live in the Chapel house down the road when I was little. The room downstairs had a cubicle for the preachers horse - for when a travelling preacher came to visit - going full circle?