My Old Landy
Engineering Mayhem
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Where can you buy a second hand EV? If they depreciate at 46% as I have heard, I would buy one 
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premmington
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I would always advise - running cars in warranty.
"The reason they sell new cars is old ones wear out" - it is that simple!
I am like most motor mechanics - are just are not new car buyers.
I may when I retire - have a few new cars - when I am likely to get more use out of them (give me something to wash down)
My Old Landy
Engineering Mayhem
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Wow, a 3 year old Hyundai for £16k compared to the £11k we paid for a 5 year old Kuga that is quite good.
I am getting swayed to the dark side
I am getting swayed to the dark side
willie.macleod
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There's always a few sensationalist headlines around, in a nutshell prices went mad around covid years, spiked massively so folk were selling run of the mill cars for more than they'd paid for them after 3 years of use. Not surprisingly, prices have dropped to normal depreciation with increased supply and electricity rates.
Tesla, whose profit per car is in double digits unlike any other volume producer decided they'd lower their prices to increase market share. This not surprisingly upset car dealers who had secondhand Teslas in stock and were left having to take a hit as no one is going to pay more for a used car than a new car. The knock on effect was to cool the secondhand EV marketplace further which is no bad thing - prices just now are about where they should be. My entire EV and the equivalent sized PV home storage battery are the same price! I'd like to see where the car parks full of BEVs are...
Tesla, whose profit per car is in double digits unlike any other volume producer decided they'd lower their prices to increase market share. This not surprisingly upset car dealers who had secondhand Teslas in stock and were left having to take a hit as no one is going to pay more for a used car than a new car. The knock on effect was to cool the secondhand EV marketplace further which is no bad thing - prices just now are about where they should be. My entire EV and the equivalent sized PV home storage battery are the same price! I'd like to see where the car parks full of BEVs are...
I would still class a private individual leasing a car as a private car, as unless they're also taking a full servicing package, they're still the ones responsible for the maintenance.
I'd buy an EV if it suited my use...@Ubique I am sorry old mate - but we are gonna get lynched on here!
But is it looking like the only two people who work on theses EV's here - would not buy/own one.
Please/please can the "eco gang" be nice to us
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Also remember - us full time/long term car mechanics are not new car buyers or ever will be! We also seen enuf of the sales reptiles to know renting a car on PHP is not a good idea either.
We're now maintaining quite a few electric cars and vans, and we're not seeing any major problems.
Had a batch of low mileage Vivaro's recently with battery cell voltage issues, which Stellantis are sorting via remote sessions, as it appears to be just a config issue with the BMS. We update the BMS, take a photo of the battery label, raise a support ticket, and they give us a call to plug the computer in so they can do what they need to.
Biggest issue is we've now had an electric Combo sat for over a month, due to the body builders failing to tighten the main 12volt battery lead after they installed their additional loom, which lead to the traction battery getting a poor connection and welding an internal contactor. Stellantis have told us to strip the battery and replace the high voltage junction box, but they can't supply the instructions. All required parts are available, but nobody is willing to open/close the battery without instructions.
premmington
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That's just a rubbish design on BMWs part.
This combo managed about 300miles before it died completely.
I went out to it, had to use the mechanical key to get in it, put the jump pack on it, and still no ignition. Went to get out to check I'd connected the boost pack correctly, and the dash came to life.
Traced the initial fault to this quality installation-
Main feed to the under bonnet fuse box, which also provides the 12V feeds to the traction battery.
The bad connection had been causing the contactors to switch while under load.
Ubique
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All the manufacturers I've worked for have 'dealer servicing' as part of the lease T's & C's - often bolting on a service plan to the monthly lease costs. IMO I think it's reasonable as you're only renting the vehicle, it's never yours so it's fair for the owner to stipulate a certain standard of maintenance.
premmington
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Ubique
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Pretty much - only a Merc. dealer can accept a used Merc. BEV, they couldn't accept a used Toyota BEV for example, even though they have Toyota dealerships in group. The main drivers for this are energy costs, previous production issues worldwide pushing up perceived value and the proposed VED on full electric vehicles. Tesla's artificial 'value' didn't help matters, the company has global presence so I doubt it's just a UK/EU policy.
Ubique
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Torque is the main driver of tyre wear, the geometry of the vehicle is completely different due to the positioning of the mass (single or twin motors make a difference too), you'll find BEV's have edge wear that would be generally 'abnormal' on ICE vehicles.
So.... its heading in a direction (it seems to me) - that if you've bought a "Brand X" EV - that when you want to replace it... that your only trade-in (& therefore ease of change) option .... is to chop it in for another Brand X machine!!
So that means the punter can't "shop around" among marques to either get the best deal - or because he/she wants to change Brand????
Logically, this direction means there's less/no competition to "Brand X" to offer the best possible trade-in price, or the best "cost to change" price to the punter - as the punter is effectively locked-in??
(Yes there would be the option to try to sell privately or to a "we-rip-you-off.com" company to escape to another brand.... but that's likely to result in losing even more money).
The more info that trickles through - the more concerning it becomes, as the less-&-less freedom & options, and the more & more expense..... seems to be what the motorist is facing - while more and more the "rent" (lease) future of cars seems to be the inevitable steered outcome.
After all, who the hell would want to buy a vehicle under those terms and conditions?
Ubique
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A couple of things - not all dealerships of any marque are owned by a single overarching company as far as I'm aware, so you're free to move between Inchcape, Pendragon, Vertu etc. The restriction is (as far as i'm aware) restricted to a company decision by the group I work for - not any manufacturer, and is likely to be only an interim measure until the market sorts it's **** out, but that's not a decision I'll be included in. I don't think it's a restrictive practice as such, just 'the company' limiting it's exposure to vehicles losing value on the forecourt.
There are some JLR dealers that were only selling the L460 on the proviso that if the buyer wishes to sell the vehicle, it'll only be to a JLR dealer... This was a measure brought in due to production issues because of Covid causing second-hand prices to be inflated above new prices - how well it would stand up in court is a different matter!
There are some JLR dealers that were only selling the L460 on the proviso that if the buyer wishes to sell the vehicle, it'll only be to a JLR dealer... This was a measure brought in due to production issues because of Covid causing second-hand prices to be inflated above new prices - how well it would stand up in court is a different matter!
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Similar to the original Range Rover launch in 1970 where reservation papers were selling well above face value.
What about these batteries?
New 621-mile range EV battery charges in six minutes and works in any weather
To boost EV adoption, company founder Huang wants to make EV ownership and maintenance as easy as gasoline-powered cars.
interestingengineering.com
I've never heard of Inchcape etc! (Though not surprised there are massive corporations operating behind the already massive brands).
I wasn't actually thinking that the Mfrs were necessarily driving the decision of your Group Company - nevertheless the fact that what is clearly a very big car retailer has felt the need to protect itself from the poor resale value & risk of taking in EV's in part-exchange..... is not exactly a promising and confidence-inspiring thing I'd have thought.
premmington
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You pretty much summed the postition up at the moment - but it has a bit to do with EV's - and more to do with the general trading problems - big groups are having at the moment.
The situation will change - the market moves and changes it always has - it will go full circle again and they will be discounting new stock. Whole motortrade is an inflated mess at the moment - fortunes to be earned selling used cars - if you can get good stock? If you can't - you will loose money for sure - thats why some makers are sticking with own brand - as they have the workshops to deal with it.
The days of the dealerships trading out stock they don't want or can't retail is over - everything goes to auction now - and that is expensive with transport and commision bids. No such thing as a cheap car now....
Ubique
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We're selling cars up to 10 years old, sometimes more dependent upon model - prior to 2020 every 'old snotter' over six years old would go to auction, we had new stock in the showroom and the used car pitch was full. Covid restrictions turned all that on it's head, even now we have used but new-ish vehicles in the showroom and almost every new vehicle turns up, gets it's PDI and out the same day or the next. Parts supply is better but still not back to where it was before the semiconductor fab plant fire, although we inexplicably get shortages of filters or sump plug washers - very odd!
Older cars or those we don't want to / cant retail either go to car supermarkets, other in-group dealers or auction as a last resort. Motability are also taking a hit and having to spend some of the billions they harvest from UK taxpayers as some manufacturers have pulled out of the scheme so Motab. are having to allow their claimants to keep the cars for longer (something they already do with heavily modified cars for those that rightly deserve them) - it's not going down well with those that need a three year old or less <insert badge of aspirational brand> to supposedly drive their lightly disabled parent around in once in a blue moon...
Older cars or those we don't want to / cant retail either go to car supermarkets, other in-group dealers or auction as a last resort. Motability are also taking a hit and having to spend some of the billions they harvest from UK taxpayers as some manufacturers have pulled out of the scheme so Motab. are having to allow their claimants to keep the cars for longer (something they already do with heavily modified cars for those that rightly deserve them) - it's not going down well with those that need a three year old or less <insert badge of aspirational brand> to supposedly drive their lightly disabled parent around in once in a blue moon...
I just saw an Ad on the telly, flogging some Renault EV thing.
Deposit: nearly £8k.
Monthly (36-months): £399/mth.
Final payment if you want to keep it: £22K (bar a couple of quid).
Some other cost (admin?): £650
So, as a rough calc to have (not own) the car for 3-years (& go back on the drip for another) cost circa £22.5K.
If you want to actually keep & buy the car, stump up about the same again
So, before you charge the thing once and drive it anywhere - its costing over £7.5k annually for a minimum 3-year agreement period - after which point you own.... nothing.
What a bargain eh!
Deposit: nearly £8k.
Monthly (36-months): £399/mth.
Final payment if you want to keep it: £22K (bar a couple of quid).
Some other cost (admin?): £650
So, as a rough calc to have (not own) the car for 3-years (& go back on the drip for another) cost circa £22.5K.
If you want to actually keep & buy the car, stump up about the same again
So, before you charge the thing once and drive it anywhere - its costing over £7.5k annually for a minimum 3-year agreement period - after which point you own.... nothing.
What a bargain eh!
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