Ubique
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Not any more!We've only got 6 EVs
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willie.macleod
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A kid's battery scooter which has never been test against any recognized standard counts as a "vehicle" in this case. It would be helpful if figures could be differentiated between 2 and 4 wheel vehicles and and also malicious or accidental fires.
www.tradingstandards.uk
CTSI issues warning about e-bike and e-scooter battery fires
www.tradingstandards.uk
brewdexta
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Some cars with carp motors like an MGB deserve an EV conversion, but something with a decent engine shouldn't. I nearly put an Alfa 2000 GTV engine in my TVR Vixen to replace the carpy 1600 Ford crossflow but run out if cash and bought a bathroom for my first house instead.
Ubique
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The link I posted above does, if you can be bothered to scroll down, give a nice pie chart of vehicle type.A kid's battery scooter which has never been test against any recognized standard counts as a "vehicle" in this case. It would be helpful if figures could be differentiated between 2 and 4 wheel vehicles and and also malicious or accidental fires.
CTSI issues warning about e-bike and e-scooter battery fires
For those with limited attention span, here it is. (although it should be titled Percentage of fires by vehicle type).
atomant48
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Interestingly if you look at the total number of cars on uk roads and how many catch fire each year you could have over 2000 EV fires to be proportionately the same as regular cars. I was quite surprised at that - (ie surprised how many normal cars catch fire - consistently about 100k per year) but I guess the average age of the 2 sets is quite different so it’s probably not as simple as apples for apples.
willie.macleod
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I read that. I don't think you read the preceding paragraph
"Broadly speaking, the number of scooters that catch fire are much higher than other vehicles across Britain"
Let's not take anomalies like your pie chart and misuse the data to suggest that cars are more likely to catch fire than knock off electric bike kits. If some miscreants decide to set fire to a yard full of EVs charging in London and burn more EVs there than elsewhere it doesn't automatically mean the cars are unsafe and likely to burst into flames at a moment's notice.
Ubique
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Well if you're going to quote, at least quote the whole paragraph to put it in context:-
"
Broadly speaking, the number of scooters that catch fire are much higher than other vehicles across Britain, however London’s figures change this ratio dramatically to electric cars being the primary culprit of fires, followed by bikes, vans, buses and motorbikes.
There are a few surprising vehicles that come up in the data again and again, such as mobility scooters, golf buggies, forklift trucks and hoverboards or Segways. In London, 19 buses have had to be extinguished in the capital but there were very few in other regions."
LONDON: FIRES CAUSED BY ELECTRIC BATTERY (PAST 5 YEARS)
If there had been a concerted campaign of arson against BEV's, I think someone would've noticed by now, even if you halve the numbers to account for possible arson (which could equally apply to every classification), it's still a lot of passenger car BEV's going up in flames. My company H&S rules stipulate that no BEV's are to be charged in the workshops, now I'm not privvy to their thinking or research prior to taking that decision, risk assessment is a main part of their remit though.
"
Broadly speaking, the number of scooters that catch fire are much higher than other vehicles across Britain, however London’s figures change this ratio dramatically to electric cars being the primary culprit of fires, followed by bikes, vans, buses and motorbikes.
There are a few surprising vehicles that come up in the data again and again, such as mobility scooters, golf buggies, forklift trucks and hoverboards or Segways. In London, 19 buses have had to be extinguished in the capital but there were very few in other regions."
LONDON: FIRES CAUSED BY ELECTRIC BATTERY (PAST 5 YEARS)
willie.macleod
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@Ubique do you have any insights as to why electric cars in London are bursting into flames at a significantly greater rate than anywhere else in the UK? If it was a fundamental flaw with the vehicles I would expect to see similar percentages of vehicles compared to rest of country, the numbers may be higher but % I'd expect to be the same.
With regards to your companies risk assessment there are a number of hazards such as trailing leads, customers dodgy granny chargers, overloaded circuits, extension leads etc which could lead a H&S expert to implement a blanket ban on charging indoors in a large dealership.
With regards to your companies risk assessment there are a number of hazards such as trailing leads, customers dodgy granny chargers, overloaded circuits, extension leads etc which could lead a H&S expert to implement a blanket ban on charging indoors in a large dealership.
The common legal term "Seriousness of Consequences" springs to mind reading that.
What precautions are deemed to be suitably responsible (and can ascribe, mitigate or remove blame/responsibility for an incident) - are judged based upon how much damage or harm is forseeable (in the event that whatever it is, happens).
Actuary types earn a small fortune for the Insurance Industry through assimilating data and crunching myriad calculations to establish Risk, and to extrapolate likely outcomes & of course the damage & cost. Insurance Co's being in it for the money of course, will exclude cover for specific activities, actions or event, that their detailed data and assessments deem to present too high a risk, with too high a cost.
Evidently, the seriousness of consequences of charging EV's inside the premises - is deemed too dangerous by the Insurance Co to include it in the scope of the policy.
I speculated (in this thread I think) that the Home Insurance market might in future exclude in-garage/indoor charging of EV's (& indeed scooters etc). It might not be obvious (& they won't broadcast the exclusion), but it'd be worth checking "the small print" if you own & EV & charge it indoors.
Are the figures based on numbers only? Perhaps (its logical) London EV's are not just far greater a percentage of vehicles than the median (given the ULEZ & incomes etc hardly a surprise), but also doing a lot more journeys, a lot more stop/start, and being charged more frequently than the median?
Again logical conclusions, and would explain why more EV's go up than anywhere else.
addjunkie
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I suspect numbers of electric cars are higher in London due to congestion charging.
Charging cars inside a commercial garage putting fire risk, trailing leads etc to one side….while the car is charging, your not working in it, so you in effect have non productive floor space with an overhead cost, makes complete sense to charge it outside in cheaper space and use inside side space to produce revenue.
redlig
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Sorry but without the caviat of ,say, per 1000 vehicle type then the chart is meaningless. Or have I missed something?
daleyd
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There was other research done that showed that the chance of a fire in an ev is actually significantly lower than an ice, with a hybrid being worst of all. I linked to it in an earlier post but I’m not going back to dig it out.
This was over a number of cars (i.e number of fires per 100,000 vehicles) so not simply figures that without any context are meaningless.
This was over a number of cars (i.e number of fires per 100,000 vehicles) so not simply figures that without any context are meaningless.
All sensible reasons.... but the profitability or efficient use of workspace aren't of concern to insurance Co. They assess Risk (& Consequence) & set their limits accordingly.
Who did the research (& esp. who funded it) are extremely important factors in any "Findings".
History is peppered with findings from surveys that were funded by parties where (Surprise!) the data "proves" exactly what is in the best interests of the funding party.
Insurance industry - is out for itself, so what they consider high risk, is pretty reliable.
E.g. if you have a house with an integral garage, your premium will be higher than a house without (or with a separate garage)..... because the data proves that the risk of fire/damage is greater with a "working area" & flammable as part of the home.
The Insurance Co - have determined that charging an EV.... is a Risk that is elevated to a point where they won't offer @Ubique Cover if he charges inside (day or night). That fact HAS to tell you something (I.e. that the seriousness of consequences makes indoor charging an unacceptable risk).
Most explosives are extremely sage and benign when stored & handled correctly. Good sense & good practice means you don't store them in your kitchen cupboards - as the result of a very unlikely event is too massive to warrant the risk!
Denial of the Insurance Co's Risk Assessment (& Exclusions) leaves an individual not only risking a fire that might wipe out his family (& neighbours) - but also (were he/she/it to survive) without Insurance & liable for all the damages.
I know what policy I'd be following.
cheb
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Are they evolving conciousness? When one is tired of London, one is tired of life.
OK. Does that mean it's not a valid decision/policy, and without sound reasons / grounds?
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