Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

Why guess? The numbers you are plucking out of thin air bear no resemblance to actual values which are easily found on Autotrader/eBay....

It will be worth somewhere around £25k, if the owner charged it at sensible rates for most of the miles then they will be way ahead financially in running costs as well compared to anything with comparable performance!

That much huh?
If prices remain at those sorts of levels, then it makes it easy for me in future.

If (when) the vast majority of used Cars are EV/PHEV, and those sorts of numbers - I probably won't be a car owner. By then, any older remaining ICE's will have firmed up know price as availability falls and gets buoyed-up by the EV residuals (if they doing get taxed & legislated off the roads altogether).

As has been speculated before - its forseeable that anyone below "middle-income" average incomes (which are way more than typical earnings in Wales & the North anyhow) will be forced-out of the car.

 

[Ubique]

Sadly I have to agree that car ownership will become a thing of the past for a lot of people that are managing to maintain independence of mobility with an older ICE vehicle, the public transport alternative is in such a shambles and seems to be run to benefit the operators, not the potential customers. My daily commute takes 12 minutes in and 20 minutes back, if I was to use public transport (I've tried it) it takes 35 minutes in plus a 12 minute walk, and 55 minutes back, plus a 12 minute walk. Some of the techs live far enough away that it would take a couple of hours to get in using public transport, but about 40 minutes by car.

 

[premmington]

Sadly I have to agree that car ownership will become a thing of the past for a lot of people that are managing to maintain independence of mobility with an older ICE vehicle, the public transport alternative is in such a shambles and seems to be run to benefit the operators, not the potential customers. My daily commute takes 12 minutes in and 20 minutes back, if I was to use public transport (I've tried it) it takes 35 minutes in plus a 12 minute walk, and 55 minutes back, plus a 12 minute walk. Some of the techs live far enough away that it would take a couple of hours to get in using public transport, but about 40 minutes by car.

Transport poverty is coming. It is mate...

But with the growth in population - it will be come along with food/water/housing/land/schooling/dental shortages...

 

[slim_boy_fat]

but it doesn't roll at all when cornering

My 20 year old BMW didn't either, they termed it "Dynamic Drive". It was hydraulically controlled in conjunction with an electronic module somewhere.

Sometimes...just sometimes... I think I've lived too long.

 

[DanZac]

Transport poverty is coming. It is mate...

Is that such a bad thing?

Go back 40 years and most families had only 1 car, children walked to school (no car to take them, and less traffic on the roads to kill them), the vast majority of people worked within a sensible distance of home, and people seemed to manage quite well.

Unfortunately we've all become so fixated and reliant on the motor vehicle that it's become a self perpetuating nightmare.

It's too dangerous to walk, because the roads are full of people driving 500m to the shops, so we all have to get in a car to stay safe.

Now my little car doesn't seem very safe compared to the big ones, so we all have to get a bigger car.

The roads are in a rubbish state so we all have to get big 4x4's to cope with the rubbish roads, which in turn cause more damage and make the roads even worse.

It's not safe for the kids to walk to school (possibly also known as I'm too lazy to walk with them), so we'll drive 1/2 a mile. I'm entitled to park right outside the gate though, so now it's traffic chaos and not safe for anyone to walk.

Until there us a change in attitude were stuck with what we've got, and maybe, unfortunate as it is, its going to take increased fuel costs, transport poverty, or whatever else to get people to realise that they're part of the problem and to start acting in a more sensible manner. (And I'll class myself in that group)

 

[addjunkie]

Is that such a bad thing?

Go back 40 years and most families had only 1 car, children walked to school (no car to take them, and less traffic on the roads to kill them), the vast majority of people worked within a sensible distance of home, and people seemed to manage quite well.

Unfortunately we've all become so fixated and reliant on the motor vehicle that it's become a self perpetuating nightmare.

It's too dangerous to walk, because the roads are full of people driving 500m to the shops, so we all have to get in a car to stay safe.

Now my little car doesn't seem very safe compared to the big ones, so we all have to get a bigger car.

The roads are in a rubbish state so we all have to get big 4x4's to cope with the rubbish roads, which in turn cause more damage and make the roads even worse.

It's not safe for the kids to walk to school (possibly also known as I'm too lazy to walk with them), so we'll drive 1/2 a mile. I'm entitled to park right outside the gate though, so now it's traffic chaos and not safe for anyone to walk.

Until there us a change in attitude were stuck with what we've got, and maybe, unfortunate as it is, its going to take increased fuel costs, transport poverty, or whatever else to get people to realise that they're part of the problem and to start acting in a more sensible manner. (And I'll class myself in that group)

I dont disagree with any of this, look at the continent, folk mostly live on multiple levels in large conurbations, public transport is far better managed and maintained. Here weve all spread out, suburban housing estates, industry locations are no longer say a ship yard employing 10000, or large factories with 1000s but small enterprise also well spread out, neither of these things aid the public transport just make it worse due to volume travelling to each place.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Personally I think they're trying to do too much too quickly...in London for example the ULEZ zone is expanding in August as which point every pre 2015 (ish) diesel within the m25 will have to be upgraded!

...this is happening right after a pandemic which has disrupted the supply of new cars and hugely inflated new car prices and waiting times....and also knocked on into the used car market....so the timing is pretty terrible.

Telling people to buy a £40k EV or get the bus isn't really going to fly I think....when the kickback happens I sincerely hope the whole net zero project doesn't get derailed!

 

[northwest]

when the kickback happens I sincerely hope the whole net zero project doesn't get derailed!

I am not so sure, I am no conspiracy theorist but I am not convinced a mindless drive to net zero is an answer (or even possible). And I will say it is mindless, driven by zealots who have lost touch, if they ever had any in the first place, with reality, coupled with self aggrandisement schemes that are purely political.

 

[atomant48]

Leasing looks a better idea for PHEVS/BEVS - till the depreciation element of EV ownership has settled down (and it will in time).

There’s a little known salary sacrifice scheme for EVs too - effectively halving the cost of a lease. Unfortunately not particularly widely adopted but certainly makes one attractive. I’m not in it (mine is a company car) but everyone likes to save a bit of tax where they can.

 

[RonMig]

This is absolutely correct, and the Rover 75, if anyone has ever driven one, was as good as any German equivalent.

I owned a Rover 200 (pre 25) for a while. Very shoddy, and did not feel like it would be around for a long time.

We have run a 1995 Rover 216 (honda petrol engine) since 1998, daily driver, sails through MoTs, still on the original clutch at 189k miles, starts on the button, runs sweet, 40mpg, no body control units or excess computers to mess up life, only needed one belt and water pump change so far, £98 comp insurance....

 

[DanZac]

I am not so sure, I am no conspiracy theorist but I am not convinced a mindless drive to net zero is an answer (or even possible). And I will say it is mindless, driven by zealots who have lost touch, if they ever had any in the first place, with reality, coupled with self aggrandisement schemes that are purely political.

Maybe Net Zero is too much too soon and there will be kickback, but if you don't aim high you'll never achieve anything.

Likewise, maybe the government's aims are so far behind reality that it's somewhat irrelevant.

The way car ownership is changing (outright purchase to lease) and I can see that continuing towards longer lease periods, or cheaper lease arrangements for older cars. Instead of buying second hand you lease second hand.

Likewise the way we work and shop is changing. Do we really still need massive out of town supermarkets when most of us click and collect, or online shop?

The more of us move over to that model the more likely it is they will turn to the warehouse / local shop for mid week essentials model.

We followed the supermarkets out of town, will we be following them back to the high Street in 20 years time?

Again more of us work from home now. Do we need 2 cars if we both work from home?

Big business, lead us down the path to where we are now, and if they are forced to react they will, if only to make money.

We've all grown accustomed to the big, privately owned ICE car, but that's a very recent thing, and change is coming, whether we like it or not.

I'm not saying we need to like it, I'm not saying we need to embrace it, but just like smoking in pubs and offices, when they banned it there was outcry, now its just a way of life and life's much better for it.

 

[dobbslc]

I am not so sure, I am no conspiracy theorist but I am not convinced a mindless drive to net zero is an answer (or even possible). And I will say it is mindless, driven by zealots who have lost touch, if they ever had any in the first place, with reality, coupled with self aggrandisement schemes that are purely political.

Bang on there.

when the kickback happens I sincerely hope the whole net zero project doesn't get derailed!

I don't believe "net zero" will ever be achievable.
We'd have to go back to living in caves before that happens.
As for the kickback, I can't wait...

 

[brewdexta]

There’s a little known salary sacrifice scheme for EVs too - effectively halving the cost of a lease. Unfortunately not particularly widely adopted but certainly makes one attractive. I’m not in it (mine is a company car) but everyone likes to save a bit of tax where they can.

One of my neighbour's uses this, the extended family have 3, possibly 4 EVs, two Tesla's and an E-Golf, I think his son has a Tesla too, not sure if that is part of the scheme though. They all work for his company and need cars for the business so makes sense.

I beleive there's benefit in kind and/or company car tax to consider too, but its not much compared to potential savings.

The Octopus energy scheme includes tyres, insurance and maintenance so all paid for before tax. Savings depend on how much tax you pay, so, as usual, it benefits the higher paid more.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Taxing houses based on efficiency will be next I reckon....seems like an easy step given the ratings are now compulsory.

 

[not done it yet]

Taxing houses based on efficiency will be next I reckon....seems like an easy step given the ratings are now compulsory.

Please, don’t be silly by making statements like that.

A great number of the housing stock is appallingly inefficient, so that will not work - the less well-off won’t be able to improve their homes (because they rent or are in poorer housing). The people with huge efficient houses will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Try again is my advice….

 

[dobbslc]

A great number of the housing stock is appallingly inefficient, so that will not work - the less well-off won’t be able to improve their homes (because they rent or are in poorer housing).

And that's exactly why they would want to do it!

 

[not done it yet]

From the original thread posting

No, the whole episode has convinced me, the world is not yet ready for all electric. Not by a long chalk.

My most recent adventure with my EV was about 475 miles this last weekend.

~200 miles there and ~200 miles back plus the ~25 miles running around on three days. I took my wife for a lace-making weekend away.

A full charge before leaving home, on Thursday, and a single charge at a public charging point (on Sunday). Apart from me needing to spend nearly an hour and a half at a miserable 50kW public charger (only a mile and a half from where my wife was located for the day) that never even delivered its rated output, by a large margin, no problem at all.

We were in no rush, so the more scenic route was followed at a steady pace. The car was charged back to nearly 80% last night. Apart from having to shell-out for the expensive energy (only the second time I've needed to charge away from home) and the expensive snacks at service stations, it was a cheap weekend foray to welsh Wales.

It was a little unfortunate that the lady, of the house where we were staying, was unwilling to let me charge over-night. Her loss, as she would have been well rewarded. Just another un-enlightened soul who thinks that EVs burst into flames while charging.

That means I am completely happy with ‘all electric’, thank you very much.

 

[DanZac]

That means I am completely happy with ‘all electric’, thank you very much.

Well that's not at all in the spirit of things. Please rewrite your post immediately focusing on the cost of sweets and coffee at the services, the length of time it took you to get there traveling at milk float pace, the number of times you burst into flames, and the fact that your extension lead wasn't long enough to reach from your house to the final destination.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Is that such a bad thing?

Go back 40 years and most families had only 1 car, children walked to school (no car to take them, and less traffic on the roads to kill them), the vast majority of people worked within a sensible distance of home, and people seemed to manage quite well.

Unfortunately we've all become so fixated and reliant on the motor vehicle that it's become a self perpetuating nightmare.

It's too dangerous to walk, because the roads are full of people driving 500m to the shops, so we all have to get in a car to stay safe.

Now my little car doesn't seem very safe compared to the big ones, so we all have to get a bigger car.

The roads are in a rubbish state so we all have to get big 4x4's to cope with the rubbish roads, which in turn cause more damage and make the roads even worse.

It's not safe for the kids to walk to school (possibly also known as I'm too lazy to walk with them), so we'll drive 1/2 a mile. I'm entitled to park right outside the gate though, so now it's traffic chaos and not safe for anyone to walk.

Until there us a change in attitude were stuck with what we've got, and maybe, unfortunate as it is, its going to take increased fuel costs, transport poverty, or whatever else to get people to realise that they're part of the problem and to start acting in a more sensible manner. (And I'll class myself in that group)

That's all very well, but there are parts of this country where personal transport is essential because public is beyond a joke. Getting anywhere for appointments on time is simply a logistically nightmare, and as for getting home at a reasonable time afterwards....well, forget it. And don't come with the "Well, you chose to live there" thing, we've heard it all before. 20:20 hindsight is a great thing.

There is merit in some of your examples, but I don't believe folk seriously believe there's a child abductor/rapist/murderer lurking behind every lampost en route to the school. More like too lazy to accompany the children or leading such 'busy' (sic) lives when they "simply must be elsewhere, daahling". (awaits )

but if you don't aim high you'll never achieve anything.

William Tell didn't do too badly....

 

[atomant48]

From the original thread posting



My most recent adventure with my EV was about 475 miles this last weekend.

~200 miles there and ~200 miles back plus the ~25 miles running around on three days. I took my wife for a lace-making weekend away.

A full charge before leaving home, on Thursday, and a single charge at a public charging point (on Sunday). Apart from me needing to spend nearly an hour and a half at a miserable 50kW public charger (only a mile and a half from where my wife was located for the day) that never even delivered its rated output, by a large margin, no problem at all.

We were in no rush, so the more scenic route was followed at a steady pace. The car was charged back to nearly 80% last night. Apart from having to shell-out for the expensive energy (only the second time I've needed to charge away from home) and the expensive snacks at service stations, it was a cheap weekend foray to welsh Wales.

It was a little unfortunate that the lady, of the house where we were staying, was unwilling to let me charge over-night. Her loss, as she would have been well rewarded. Just another un-enlightened soul who thinks that EVs burst into flames while charging.

That means I am completely happy with ‘all electric’, thank you very much.

What was her reason for not wanting it plugged in - a cost consideration ?