Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

I didn't see that Panorama programme. Sounds interesting.
As for infrastructure etc..... well surely the very old saying
"Putting the Cart before the Horse" was never so apt.
It ain't rocket science to work out that you need a refuelling system to sustain a mass transport policy in place first - not just encourage/force the transport into use..... & then start faffing about with the energy to operate.

It's gross negligence & ineptitude on a nationwide scale. The UK was not, & is not, and will not be for some time - anywhere near ready to go all-electric.

When the ICE car landed all them years ago.

Fuel was bought from chemists - then as the usage spread - petrol was sold in cans - then from the pump as ownership spread.

EV cars are the same - the cars have to come first. Then the chargers will come (and they are).

Like everything else the problem arrives first - then solution arrives next.

It is just we expect perfection and access in this 24/7 world we now live in.

---------

I pulled up to "inspect" a high KW DC charger in real life in my ICE car a little while ago (fuelled my diesel up at another pump) - I had a walk round the charger - I could not believe the heat that comes off one. Was speaking to the chap that was using it - even he concluded that this wasted energy - maybe not being absorbed into the green mathmatic equation?

I had a good look at the charger - walked about - found the oil cooled substation hidden behind fencing - "you gotta know your enemy"

Strangely as a car mechanic - it is the chargers and the abnormal type wear for EV's that interest me. Odd I know. Maybe I can see some earning potential with both....?

 

[atomant48]

When the ICE car landed all them years ago.

Fuel was bought from chemists - then as the usage spread - petrol was sold in cans - then from the pump as ownership spread.

EV cars are the same - the cars have to come first. Then the chargers will come (and they are).

Like everything else the problem arrives first - then solution arrives next.

It is just we expect perfection and access in this 24/7 world we now live in.

---------

I pulled up to "inspect" a high KW DC charger in real life in my ICE car a little while ago (fuelled my diesel up at another pump) - I had a walk round the charger - I could not believe the heat that comes off one. Was speaking to the chap that was using it - even he concluded that this wasted energy - maybe not being absorbed into the green mathmatic equation?

I had a good look at the charger - walked about - found the oil cooled substation hidden behind fencing - "you gotta know your enemy"

Strangely as a car mechanic - it is the chargers and the abnormal type wear for EV's that interest me. Odd I know. Maybe I can see some earning potential with both....?

Im quite interested in the abnormal wear as well. Sone great insights from you and Ubique. Do you think you are seeing a good cross section of EVs or just the ones that come in with problems? ie are the ones you see on a regular service schedule and these problems are being picked up? My T hasn’t been in the workshop since it was new - 2 years. A guy came and did a charger lead replacement in my driveway and replaced a rubber o ring while he was here (a recall) but i am working on the assumption it will tell me when it needs servicing…??!!

I always have that story in my mind about the bombers coming back from raids in WW2 and they were using them to determine where to put armour. Then they realised they were looking at the wrong bombers :-(

 

[premmington]

Im quite interested in the abnormal wear as well. Sone great insights from you and Ubique. Do you think you are seeing a good cross section of EVs or just the ones that come in with problems? ie are the ones you see on a regular service schedule and these problems are being picked up? My T hasn’t been in the workshop since it was new - 2 years. A guy came and did a charger lead replacement in my driveway and replaced a rubber o ring while he was here (a recall) but i am working on the assumption it will tell me when it needs servicing…??!!

I always have that story in my mind about the bombers coming back from raids in WW2 and they were using them to determine where to put armour. Then they realised they were looking at the wrong bombers :-(

Not sure...? Valid point thou!

I only seeing the dead ones out of warranty - or dying ones as I am an auto electrician by trade.

@Ubique is seeing more of the general servicing work than me on newer cars (plus the in warranty failures and call backs).

--------

@Ubique is in the "delivery ward" for new born BEVS/PHEVS - I am in the "critical care/end of life stage" of ownership.

Plus I have sent a few to the "undertakers" - salvage auctions in middle age...

 

[500e]

When the ICE car landed all them years ago.

Fuel was bought from chemists - then as the usage spread - petrol was sold in cans - then from the pump as ownership spread.

EV cars are the same - the cars have to come first. Then the chargers will come (and they are).

Like everything else the problem arrives first - then solution arrives next.

It is just we expect perfection and access in this 24/7 world we now live in.

---------

I pulled up to "inspect" a high KW DC charger in real life in my ICE car a little while ago (fuelled my diesel up at another pump) - I had a walk round the charger - I could not believe the heat that comes off one. Was speaking to the chap that was using it - even he concluded that this wasted energy - maybe not being absorbed into the green mathmatic equation?

I had a good look at the charger - walked about - found the oil cooled substation hidden behind fencing - "you gotta know your enemy"

Strangely as a car mechanic - it is the chargers and the abnormal type wear for EV's that interest me. Odd I know. Maybe I can see some earning potential with both....?

Think that does not work Pete.
When petrol was sold in cans there were few cars and only the well off had one, now mass transport near impossible for society to function without motor vehicles so infrastructure first is a big requirement

 

[premmington]

Think that does not work Pete.
When petrol was sold in cans there were few cars and only the well off had one, now mass transport near impossible for society to function without motor vehicles so infrastructure first is a big requirement

@500e I agree 100% with you and what you said above.

But they only gonna roll out chargers and infrastruture with demand - because it has to pay its way (and someone has to pay for it).

This could kill the job - stop the roll out - it could...

 

[Erie Fred]

Think that does not work Pete.
When petrol was sold in cans there were few cars and only the well off had one, now mass transport near impossible for society to function without motor vehicles so infrastructure first is a big requirement

Also, taxpayers didn't pay for all that distribution network.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Well here where I live in West London they're rolling out chargers on most street intersections....they were adding the power box a couple weeks ago on my street. I'm guessing it just takes some time.

I was in the country last weekend...zero phone coverage....so I wouldn't hold your breath for EV chargers on every street corner like London!

 

[500e]

We pay with the green subsidy, I understand and support the need to lower Carbon (I go round switching off the lights beloved switches on there is no off on a switch she finds)
But please dont just say the car the heat exchanger's will cure it all, cost of scrapping and building new product is mind boggling and then electric to run these new products has to have new infrastructure all producing vast CO.
There are to meany people is anoother of the problems if we try to reduce that problem it produces another as we then have an imballance in population age

 

[500e]

Good to hear @Pigeon_Droppings2 the phone problem I relate to as well
In your street how meany houses V charger points this is the problem if all IC motors are removed from service
In rural aeries it is not feasible to have chargers in every house so 13A charging will be the norm also the wage tends to be lower and people need to travel to work, shop, see friends etc. + no /low public transport will require more charging at the ends of the grid

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

In your street how meany houses V charger points this is the problem if all IC motors are removed from service

I reckon we'll be getting between 6-8 charge points total (each end of the road)....they're placed along the long side of gardens at the cross roads so least annoying for residents.

Would be ample if I lived on the shortest street in the UK!....in reality we have around 200-300 houses....but every little helps I guess.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I came across a used car scheme for EVs that is pretty interesting....its a salary sacrifice scheme run by Octopus energy.

Whats interesting is it also includes a charger and 4,000 miles of "free" electricity...the cars are leased but seems interesting as I don't really want to own an EV outright...and definitely not a used one at that!

 

[fizzy]

Remember the good old days when you had just 2 tariffs to worry about? Economy 7 and standard. No messing about with all these crazy new schemes. Just bring in loads of nuclear power stations and be done with. France built a load of nuclear power stations in the 70s. This was a result of the World oil crisis. From announcing the plan to starting work took 3 months. They had something like 40 plants running in 10 years. How times have changed. And yet all these older plants were perfectly safe.
The older British sites were up and running within about 7 or 8 years as well. People knew how to get things done in those days!

In Britain there is now a 5 year approval period. How can they make it 5 years? Surely the approval process should be based on results not a set time? One of the questions the regulators asked Rolls Royce was "What happens if gravity fails"? I feel safe knowing the regulators are so intelligent

 

[reb78]

People knew how to get things done in those days!

Regardless of topic, those days are gone. The red tape that we have to tie ourselves up in these days is horrific. Nothing will ever be done quickly now.

 

[daleyd]

Remember the good old days when you had just 2 tariffs to worry about? Economy 7 and standard. No messing about with all these crazy new schemes. Just bring in loads of nuclear power stations and be done with. France built a load of nuclear power stations in the 70s. This was a result of the World oil crisis. From announcing the plan to starting work took 3 months. They had something like 40 plants running in 10 years. How times have changed. And yet all these older plants were perfectly safe.
The older British sites were up and running within about 7 or 8 years as well. People knew how to get things done in those days!

In Britain there is now a 5 year approval period. How can they make it 5 years? Surely the approval process should be based on results not a set time? One of the questions the regulators asked Rolls Royce was "What happens if gravity fails"? I feel safe knowing the regulators are so intelligent

You do know they don’t just say “it’s 5 years” based on a whim, or an arbitrary number of years? Our approvals process is comparable with other countries, I’ve a few ex colleagues who work in this area having left the RN as nuclear watch keeps on submarines.

Even if they approved them today, RR don’t have a design finalised or a manufacturing facility to make them.

 

[Erie Fred]

Regardless of topic, those days are gone. The red tape that we have to tie ourselves up in these days is horrific. Nothing will ever be done quickly now.

Yabutt the climate terrorists want instant change RIGHT NOW !

 

[fizzy]

You do know they don’t just say “it’s 5 years” based on a whim, or an arbitrary number of years? Our approvals process is comparable with other countries, I’ve a few ex colleagues who work in this area having left the RN as nuclear watch keeps on submarines.

Even if they approved them today, RR don’t have a design finalised or a manufacturing facility to make them.

5 years was deliberately chosen to discourage new nuclear projects. Gordon Brown also sold off Westinghouse to put the final nail in the coffin. In fact he sold off £50 billion instate assets so it's not just the current lot to blame.

Brown plans £50bn sale of national assets

The government is to sell off assets including most of the state-owned nuclear industry, the Tote, public spectrum airwaves and Ministry of Defence firing ranges.

www.theguardian.com

Having said that most major builds are taking forever now with all the stupid planning laws. Apparently it has become almost impossible to build ANYTHING in the UK now - even houses!

 

[Erie Fred]

Fizzy wrote:

The older British sites were up and running within about 7 or 8 years as well. People knew how to get things done in those days!

50 years ago, we knew how to build a nuclear piwer plant. Nowadays we know how to build renewable energy sites - windfarms, PV. We also have more available international HVDC connectors, than the nuclear fleet. That is progress in 50 years. Get used to it. Britains‘s nuclear builds are a a thing of the past. History.

Another thirty years before another nuclear power station comes on line? How long before the current build is connected? Let’s just get on and invest in renewables and means to avoid the periods of reduced wind.

Geothermal from Iceland, hydro from Norway, Solar from North Africa, etc. There is plenty of available energy - it just needs to be connected and distributed. Meanwhile the amount of energy from fossils needs to be curtailed - to both lower CO2 emissions and reduce local health risks. If the subsidies paid to the fossil fuel industry were redirected to renewables, energy storage, etc the problem could be resolved in just a few years.

The south west will be better served for BEVs when ‘inckley c eventually comes on line (the grid problem is that the connection of the SW to the ‘mainland Britain grid’ is hopelessly inadequate - it has been, for years. I expect the grid reinforcement was likely expected to not be unnecessary if that plant had been on time.

I would like to hear of anyone on the forum who actually suffers from ‘range anxiety’ with their EV. I most certainly do not.

...and then some very small, unplanned for incident will make the public decry the removal of every last windmill.
Small plane comes down and get's chopped up, people die ?
Parachutist (maybe a celebrated hero) gets entangled in one ?

Maybe the sea urchins get upset with the offshore ones ?

Then what ?

Does the term "Putting all your eggs in one basket" mean anything to you ?

 

[premmington]

Yabutt the climate terrorists want instant change RIGHT NOW !

Enlarge - explain that term?

 

[daleyd]

5 years was deliberately chosen to discourage new nuclear projects. Gordon Brown also sold off Westinghouse to put the final nail in the coffin. In fact he sold off £50 billion instate assets so it's not just the current lot to blame.

Brown plans £50bn sale of national assets

The government is to sell off assets including most of the state-owned nuclear industry, the Tote, public spectrum airwaves and Ministry of Defence firing ranges.

www.theguardian.com

Having said that most major builds are taking forever now with all the stupid planning laws. Apparently it has become almost impossible to build ANYTHING in the UK now - even houses!

Absolute nonsense - there has never been a "number of years" set for approvals, the best you could say is that the process is expected to take x number of months/years, based on the amount of work to be done - seeing as we haven't built any for decades and lots of expertise had been lost, and things also move on in terms of safety and design its hardly surprising that things might take longer than previous - but to suggest that there was some arbitrary time limit makes no sense.

As I've said, the approval time between us/uk/France is all broadly comparable. In fact I seem to recall reading a while back that the us timescale was longer, I'll see if I can find the link.

If anything I'm actually quite happy with it being 5 years, I'd rather it was thoroughly scrutinised at the design stage rather than after it was built, I've worked in the industry and am glad that no one shares your blasé attitude about how things are done, or longs for some mythical golden age of reactor builds where there was little regard to how they were going to be decommissioned, hence the hugely long times to get rid if the first and second gen stuff.

Don't get me wrong, weve done fantastically well from the pioneering stuff we did but to think that you can simply carry on and do more of the same is hugely naive.

 

[Erie Fred]

Enlarge - explain that term?

Those crazies that have been interrupting sporting events, and other mayhem.
Been postings on here with all their disruptive behaviors as of late.