Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[daleyd]

That's what I don' understand, if these are "single use", then why a Li Ion rechargeable battery ?
What's wrong with a simple carbon battery ?

Single use may be incorrect terminology but they are so cheap and “almost” disposable, so no incentive to recycle them I guess? And the people that just ditch them likely don’t actually care enough, or just don’t know, to remove them and separate them

 

[premmington]

How many smoking big ones for the diesel?

No idea mate...?

But the "smoking joke" - did make me smile

 

[premmington]

Cheap shots? Underpants? Referring to them as “milk floats”?


I’m fine with a bit of banter, if you’re getting a bit sniffy I’ll stop

I not got a problem with "milk float" - I recall them when I was kid.

They were quiet - they carried a lot of weight - crates of glass milk bottles were heavy.

I did not have to fetch my milk or have spare longlife stuff in the house.

At Mums you just opened the front door and the milk was it a little cage thing in the mornings.

Doing away with milk floats was not progress - not progress at all...

When we lived in the country they had noisey diesel flat bed trucks - but the urban EV milk float was OK.

Milk float - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[cheb]

No idea mate...?

But the "smoking joke" - did make me smile

I'm on all week, try the organic, vegan, human shaped, oat based biscuit.

 

[premmington]

I not got a problem with "milk float" - I recall them when I was kid.

They were quiet - they carried a lot of weight - crates of glass milk bottles were heavy.

I did not have to fetch my milk or have spare longlife stuff in the house.

At Mums you just opened the front door and the milk was it a little cage thing in the mornings.

Doing away with milk floats was not progress - not progress at all...

When we lived in the country they had noisey diesel flat bed trucks - but the urban EV milk float was OK.

Milk float - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@daleyd

So what killed the delivery of milk?

Supermarkets - ladies of the house going to work and milk geting left on the doorstep. Cost?

These milk floats looked old - they looked like they lasted OK.

Flooded wet acid batteries like a forklift? Yes?

 

[daleyd]

@daleyd

So what killed the delivery of milk?

Supermarkets - ladies of the house going to work and milk geting left on the doorstep. Cost?

These milk floats looked old - they looked like they lasted OK.

Flooded wet acid batteries like a forklift? Yes?

We still have milk delivered so I’m probably not best placed to answer. But I guess the prevalence of supermarkets and how cheap they could provide it has done for most milk rounds. I think dairy farmers have had a real bum deal from supermarkets over the years, but that’s probably a discussion for another thread.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

They were quiet - they carried a lot of weight - crates of glass milk bottles were heavy.

All that glass was so cumbersome...plastic is so much more convenient...not so environmentally friendly though!

As a kid I remember a milk float near us caught fire...of course all the kids turned up to watch it burn (me included)....it was very impressive I have to say (milk man lived at the end of our road as it happens).

 

[premmington]

We still have milk delivered so I’m probably not best placed to answer. But I guess the prevalence of supermarkets and how cheap they could provide it has done for most milk rounds. I think dairy farmers have had a real bum deal from supermarkets over the years, but that’s probably a discussion for another thread.

@daleyd

I was trying to change the direction of this thread as it was getting abit "toxic".

I thought talking about milk delivery would be a nice thing to do...

Simple stuff milk - you can have skimmed - semi skimmed - full fat - and real good quality Jersey milk with gold tops.

Red/green/blue/gold....

Plus there is even - lactose free stuff you can give cats! (yeah I am feeding a stray cat in my workshop yard now - even wormed it - dry food - wet food and special little 200ml boxes of cat milk).

First cat that has crawled into my yard for years not with an infected airgun pellet wound in it. At one point - my workshop was nearly a field hospital for wounded cats.

 

[premmington]

All that glass was so cumbersome...plastic is so much more convenient...not so environmentally friendly though!

As a kid I remember a milk float near us caught fire...of course all the kids turned up to watch it burn (me included)....it was very impressive I have to say (milk man lived at the end of our road as it happens).

EV fire and no lithium involved... Odd?

 

[not done it yet]

I’ve just got back from my latest adventure in my BEV. Charged to 100% at home then 130 miles to near Shrewsbury. A few miles running around in the week. About 50kWh added, while away from home, at a cost of £27 to allow me to do another 130 miles for a day out at the CLA game fair. Home today, followed by another 29 miles to a hospital visit has left me with a battery which will be recharged over-night for the next couple of days to return it to 80% charge.

No problems, no range anxiety, no rush (have to drive gently/smoothly for the well-being of my poorly wife).

I only have 4 months experience with a BEV but as I have a good understanding of science and about 65 years of driving vehicles (started at about 8 years old on farm jobs), but I also consider myself very competent where energy use is concerned - not like a lot of those who decry any form of technological advancement with no, or little, educational qualifications. In my life-time I have worked with all types of radio-nucleotides and oils, so plenty of experience in technical positions, over my working life.

I have been considering a BEV for a couple of years, or more - but they were too expensive at the time. The BMW i3 REX or a Kona were the favoured models, but I opted to spend a pension on a larger, less economical, model to use to carry my wife's electric wheelchair (it stays in the car almost all the time). The BEV replaced a Peugeot 607 diesel.

Surprise, surprise, her wheelchair is also powered by lithium ion batteries - one LiPO and one LiFePO4. Higher capacity from the LiPO but the LiFe PO4 can be transported on an airline - just like EV development, for those interested in progress rather than just repeating stories from history of the developing car industry.

Electricity can be, and will be, the clean energy source to combat the now unambiguous risk of climate overheat, to reduce the pollution which causes a lot of angst to city dwellers. Fossil fuels will be exhausted eventually, by those that advocate continued use and reliance on them and there are very limited options, at present - other than embrace the new technology.

I watched a youtube video where a fellow purchased a superb example of a second hand Renault Zoe for well under 5 grand - and this is years before ICE powered cars are due to be discontinued. That, alone, indicates that some on here complaining of never being able to afford a BEV just don’t look hard enough or think ahead rather than the past and present.

 

[Ubique]

EV fire and no lithium involved... Odd?

Motor windings shorted / overheating, accumulated crud & fibreglass - a bit like the Kings Cross fire but substitute wood for fibreglass, and open air with an interested audience.

 

[daleyd]

@daleyd

I was trying to change the direction of this thread as it was getting abit "toxic".

I thought talking about milk delivery would be a nice thing to do...

Simple stuff milk - you can have skimmed - semi skimmed - full fat - and real good quality Jersey milk with gold tops.

Red/green/blue/gold....

Plus there is even - lactose free stuff you can give cats! (yeah I am feeding a stray cat in my workshop yard now - even wormed it - dry food - wet food and special little 200ml boxes of cat milk).

First cat that has crawled into my yard for years not with an infected airgun pellet wound in it. At one point - my workshop was nearly a field hospital for wounded cats.

I don’t think there’s anything toxic in some robust (ahem!) debate and a bit of healthy banter, but maybe that’s just me

I certainly wouldn’t take anything to heart over a discussion about battery cars, despite whatever differences I might have with anyone.

I think it’s good to have an open discussion and while I of course acknowledge they aren’t perfect, my own experience tells me they are not as bad as are sometimes made out - and in my (“our” really as it’s my wife’s car more than mine) case I’m perfectly happy with the way it’s worked out - having bought one without really knowing what to expect.

But yeah, I do like a bit of gold top!

 

[Erie Fred]

Simple stuff milk - you can have skimmed - semi skimmed - full fat - and real good quality Jersey milk with gold tops.

Red/green/blue/gold....

Here you go.....

Pot O Gold Dairy - Just Plain Business

justplainbusiness.com

 

[fizzy]

A mate of mine was a milkman. 3 wheeler electric milk float. Never been so scared in all my life when he gave me a lift.. Thing weighed about 5 tons. No MOT needed. Cab was tied on with a bit of rope

 

[m_c]

All that glass was so cumbersome...plastic is so much more convenient...not so environmentally friendly though!

As a kid I remember a milk float near us caught fire...of course all the kids turned up to watch it burn (me included)....it was very impressive I have to say (milk man lived at the end of our road as it happens).

Current figures actually say otherwise.
I seen some research fairly recently which found the environmental cost of glass milk bottles is greater than plastic.
By the time you factor in the cost of making the glass bottle to start with, cleaning the glass when it can be reused, the transport costs, and the limited number of times the bottles actually last, it results in more emissions than just using plastic.

IIRC for glass to be environmentally friendly, each bottle would have to last more than 8 reuses, but the average was only 5 or 6 uses.

 

[Erie Fred]

Current figures actually say otherwise.
I seen some research fairly recently which found the environmental cost of glass milk bottles is greater than plastic.
By the time you factor in the cost of making the glass bottle to start with, cleaning the glass when it can be reused, the transport costs, and the limited number of times the bottles actually last, it results in more emissions than just using plastic.

IIRC for glass to be environmentally friendly, each bottle would have to last more than 8 reuses, but the average was only 5 or 6 uses.

Part of the savings is the glass bottle goes back for free, the truck normally
would be returning empty.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

By the time you factor in the cost of making the glass bottle to start with, cleaning the glass when it can be reused, the transport costs, and the limited number of times the bottles actually last, it results in more emissions than just using plastic.

I'm sure you are right...I'm just finding it very very hard to believe if I'm honest. Sounds a lot like one of those sponsored "research projects" which basically sets out to prove something that benefits the organisation paying for the research!

Surely most plastic bottles basically end up being environmentally negative (except for a small proportion which get recycled into lower grade plastic products)....vs glass bottles which are inert.

While I was restoring a house I dug up a glass milk bottle which probably dated from the 1950s....a quick wash and it would have been good to go!

 

[m_c]

Part of the savings is the glass bottle goes back for free, the truck normally
would be returning empty.

But the empty bottle weight still costs money to move.
It will be pretty negligible for a single bottle, but if you fill a lorry up with a couple thousand empties, those are going to have noticeable effect on emissions.

Something that does need looked at more, is the complete lifecycle of things, and I do think that the glass milk bottle is a good example. Lots of people trot out that glass is more environmentally friendly, but when you actually delve into the details, the available numbers say otherwise, and I'm sure the same can be said for lots of things.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

It will be pretty negligible for a single bottle, but if you fill a lorry up with a couple thousand empties, those are going to have noticeable effect on emissions.

I think they already thought of that....the milk floats were electric too back in the day....maybe that wasn't factored into the research.

I'm just not buying into the glass is bad argument (happy to be proved wrong)...in my mind glass is superior to plastic in many ways including its ability not to contaminate the liquids being stored and the inert nature of glass in the environment.

 

[premmington]

But the empty bottle weight still costs money to move.
It will be pretty negligible for a single bottle, but if you fill a lorry up with a couple thousand empties, those are going to have noticeable effect on emissions.

Something that does need looked at more, is the complete lifecycle of things, and I do think that the glass milk bottle is a good example. Lots of people trot out that glass is more environmentally friendly, but when you actually delve into the details, the available numbers say otherwise, and I'm sure the same can be said for lots of things.

I am interested in this - glass is heavy and would take a lot of cleaning - melting into something else.

Plastic is light (compactable).....

"the complete lifecycle of things" very valid point @m_c